Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

magicbastarder

the headline itself betrays the 'journalists' own biases.

dkav9

Duckjob wrote: »

For me, substituting a place name in an action sentence, eg “Malahide rejoices...”, implying that everybody in that place holds that view as opposed to a relatively small but vocal group , flushes whatever credibility the publisher had down the toilet.

On the other hand though I guess It’s not like DublinLive has a lot of credibility to play with in the first place.

Horrid publication

Tombo2001

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thiago-cortess-father-says-two-year-sentence-for-killer-trivialiseshis-sons-life-40476034.html

He's not wrong.

tomasrojo

That DublinLive piece is surprisingly even-handed and balanced.

tomasrojo

They added: "The wooden monstrosities (dubbed 'parklets') have been removed from New Street in Malahide.

It's quoting a group of residents, but it's faintly amusing that it implies that "wooden monstrosities" is the industry term, and "parklets" some sort of pet name applied to them.

cletus

Is it the wooden planter boxes in the pictures they were objecting to? In the lord name of Jesus, how can you describe wooden flower boxes, that add a bit of colour to the road, as ' monstrosities'

Type 17

Anything that blocks my inalienable right to drive and park my car wherever I like is a monstrosity.

buffalo

GabbaTheHutt wrote: »

Can we ask that we don’t discuss this case at the moment please? As it is currently before the courts it’s really important that nothing is seen to bias any decision .

It has been scheduled and postponed several times since the incident - covid and other reasons, so hopefully have some conclusion for the family and all involved soon.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/motorist-found-not-guilty-over-death-of-cycling-club-member-tonya-mcevoy-40477461.html

A jury of seven men and four women acquitted Kevin Hutchinson of dangerous driving causing the death of Tonya McEvoy on February 12, 2017, at Rathcoffey, Co Kildare, at the end of a five-day trial at Naas Circuit Criminal Court.

Devastating.

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1397987251997585408?s=19

AmberGold

I assume it's ok to comment on this case given its concluded.

Astonishing verdict especially to be not even found guilty of careless driving causing death. Motorists need to be held accountable for their actions, there's a significant disconnect in this country.

I'd say this finding swung it for the defence "They also pointed out that a forensic report into the collision by gardaí showed that Ms McEvoy was already either falling from her bicycle or lying on the ground by the time she was struck by the accused’s 05-reg Audi A4"

MangleBadger

AmberGold wrote: »

I assume it's ok to comment on this case given its concluded.

Astonishing verdict especially to be not even found guilty of careless driving causing death. Motorists need to be held accountable for their actions, there's a significant disconnect in this country.

I'd say this finding swung it for the defence "They also pointed out that a forensic report into the collision by gardaí showed that Ms McEvoy was already either falling from her bicycle or lying on the ground by the time she was struck by the accused’s 05-reg Audi A4"

Do any of the witnesses dispute this fact? Either way crazy that you can be driving on the wrong side of the road and suffer no consequences.

Lumen

The low standard required of drivers in this country is beneath contempt.

Not even a conviction for careless.

The most basic requirement of safe driving is to be able to stop on your side of the road in the space you can see to be clear and is likely to remain so.

Tombo2001

Irish Times Special Report.

https://www.irishtimes.com/special-reports/motors-focus-2021/millennials-to-lead-global-boom-in-car-ownership-report-finds-1.4571669?fbclid=IwAR2vBoGQf2XEq2bmT4Nx1IATu6YWMdl4H7SuXSq99bliIB7tnfTZezi-wmw

Whats a special report?

"A Special Report is content that is edited and produced by the Special Reports unit within The Irish Times Content Studio. It is supported by advertisers who may contribute to the report, but who do not have editorial control."

AndrewJRenko

MangleBadger wrote: »

Do any of the witnesses dispute this fact? Either way crazy that you can be driving on the wrong side of the road and suffer no consequences.

Or to be clearer, crazy that you can be driving on the wrong side of the road and kill a young lady in her prime and suffer no consequences.

Lumen wrote: »

The low standard required of drivers in this country is beneath contempt.

Not even a conviction for careless.

The most basic requirement of safe driving is to be able to stop on your side of the road in the space you can see to be clear and is likely to remain so.

I'm amazed that anyone let the defence counsel away with the nonsense that the driver was 'forced' onto the opposite side of the road by parked cars. No-one gets forced onto the opposite side of the road. They have the option, indeed the obligation to stop if it isn't safe to move onto the opposide side of the road.

This issue has been well rehearsed in the UK. The most likely direct cause is that most of the jury drive but don't cycle, and are taking the 'there but for the grace of god go I' approach, where they know well they don't stick to speed limits or make sure the road is clear before crossing a white line.

I've no idea what Tonya's family thinking is, but this judgement should bring people out on the streets. It is outrageous.

fat bloke

I am so sad and so angry at that verdict. The very definition of dangerous driving causing death...

I'm gonna stop typing now.

eeeee

Jesus christ. That's absolutely- I can't even put words on it.
How the fcuk can you kill someone through your own negligent, illegal and dangerous actions, surrounded by witnesses and walk free?
Ffs :mad:
I'm fcuking raging and upset at the same time :mad:

Her friends, family and teammates must be devastated. And those who were with her that day.
It's devastating. Devastating.
Can the DPP appeal it?

Bigus

eeeee wrote: »

Jesus christ. That's absolutely- I can't even put words on it.
How the fcuk can you kill someone through your own negligent, illegal and dangerous actions, surrounded by witnesses and walk free?
Ffs :mad:
I'm fcuking raging and upset at the same time :mad:

Her friends, family and teammates must be devastated. And those who were with her that day.
It's devastating. Devastating.
Can the DPP appeal it?

I wonder if it was a Dublin centric Jury that were more attuned to cyclists and their vulnerability, would they have had a different attitude ?

Or was it simply a sh1t hot, well paid Private barrister vs a low paid public servant light weight, who wasn’t fighting Tonya’s side with rigor.

I know the family well and will report back with some first hand insight , when things settle.

AndrewJRenko

Bigus wrote: »

I wonder if it was a Dublin centric Jury that were more attuned to cyclists and their vulnerability, would they have had a different attitude ?

Or was it simply a sh1t hot, well paid Private barrister vs a low paid public servant light weight, who wasn’t fighting Tonya’s side with rigor.

I know the family well and will report back with some first hand insight , when things settle.

Not a great time to take a shot a public servants, but it looks like you're wrong.

Prosecuting counsel: https://www.lawlibrary.ie/members/Mr-Daniel-Boland/611.aspx

I would be interested to hear the family's reaction though.

Seth Brundle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I would be interested to hear the family's reaction though.

Predictable reaction...
https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/1398005446317858821?s=19

Large bottle small glass

I thought the evidence of the other cyclists putting him significantly across into wrong side of road at speed should have been enough but a jury of driver's are going to be susceptible to whatever nonsense a defence counsel will throw out there
*The parked cars "forcing out" the Accused
*The cycling group should have slowed

The Garda report was a death knell though
"They also pointed out that a forensic report into the collision by gardaí showed that Ms McEvoy was already either falling from her bicycle or lying on the ground by the time she was struck by the accused’s car.

The report indicated that the point of impact between the vehicle and the victim was near the line in the middle of the road"

I'd love to know how they came up with both of those conclusions. I've read a lot of their reports over the years and they often read like they are certain on things that are very difficult to be certain on. (I'm thinking in particular of a pedestrian killed by Martin in his 7 series in the N5 about 5 years ago where they calculated a speed from throw distance).

The cyclist beside Tonya not seeing the impact didn't help.

Large bottle small glass

Bigus wrote: »

I wonder if it was a Dublin centric Jury that were more attuned to cyclists and their vulnerability, would they have had a different attitude ?

Or was it simply a sh1t hot, well paid Private barrister vs a low paid public servant light weight, who wasn’t fighting Tonya’s side with rigor.

I know the family well and will report back with some first hand insight , when things settle.

Prosecuting barrister are usually top tier.

Getting prosecutions in criminal cases is really hard. The defence team will have had weeks and maybe months to go over the book of evidence; the prosecution can't use evidence not in that book.

They can't decide to ask Garda to change report because you think it's nonsense. You can't ask a witness are they not more certain.

You just present the evidence.

Smee_Again

Sadly not surprised by the verdict. I’m not one to normally go against a jury verdict but this feels wrong, but given the AGS report not guilty was inevitable really.

micar

The partner said she saw the cyclist wobble. That means she was still on the bike.

How then did AGS come to the conclusion that the cyclist was either falling or already on the ground.

Tell me how

micar wrote: »

The partner said she saw the cyclist wobble. That means she was still on the bike.

How then did AGS come to the conclusion that the cyclist was either falling or already on the ground.

Very crude but probably something to do with indicators of collision either on the car or the poor misfortune who passed away.

Larbre34

So basically, the DPP went against a Garda report to proceed with a prosecution? Something doesn't sound right about that take.

RIP by the way, that was a most dreadful accident, no matter what the outcome of the case.

eeeee

Larbre34 wrote: »

So basically, the DPP went against a Garda report to proceed with a prosecution? Something doesn't sound right about that take.

RIP by the way, that was a most dreadful accident, no matter what the outcome of the case.

Except it wasn't an accident. The driver was driving dangerously, without due care and attention. and killed someone due to their own actions.
That's not an accident.
There's nothing accidental about coming round a corner at speed over the wrong side of the road into a group of cyclists.

The fact that they got away with it despite multiple eyewitnesses attesting to their illegal and murderous driving is an absolute travesty to put it mildly.

CramCycle

Larbre34 wrote: »

So basically, the DPP went against a Garda report to proceed with a prosecution? Something doesn't sound right about that take.

RIP by the way, that was a most dreadful accident, no matter what the outcome of the case.

A good friend of mine is a forensic scientist in France, formerly worked in Scotland. Had a really disturbing conversation at a wedding with him about how inaccurate and outdated some of the techniques used here are in regards to estimating speed, position etc. in a RTC. Hands up the conversation was 5 years ago now.

As I said to a friend earlier today, if you ignored vehicular manslaughter, he admitted to enough FCNs to get his license taken off him, on the record, in court. I am physically upset, what's the point in following the rule of law when decisions like this are made.

Condolences to her friends and family, it is not justice by any stretch.

Fian

Weepsie wrote: »

And there's a f*cking car ad autoplaying on the article in the indo.

The defendent has recently lost a brother (it's in the public domain), did they go for a woe is me story,

"The accused’s partner, Jessica Donohoe, who was a passenger in the car, said she had seen “a wobble” among the group of cyclists just before the impact."

F*ck that. I presume if she could see them from her side of the car, he could have seen them and confirm that he was driving on the wrong side of the road. The DPP 100% better be appealing that.

As we all know, planning to kill someone, do it with a car.

there is no appeal against an acquittal. The DPP can appeal against an overly lenient sentence by a judge, but not against this jury verdict.

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

A good friend of mine is a forensic scientist in France, formerly worked in Scotland. Had a really disturbing conversation at a wedding with him about how inaccurate and outdated some of the techniques used here are in regards to estimating speed, position etc. in a RTC. Hands up the conversation was 5 years ago now.

As I said to a friend earlier today, if you ignored vehicular manslaughter, he admitted to enough FCNs to get his license taken off him, on the record, in court. I am physically upset, what's the point in following the rule of law when decisions like this are made.

Condolences to her friends and family, it is not justice by any stretch.

I was about to say I recalled someone on here before mentioning the standard of forensics here vs other places. Something that stuck in my mind when you mentioned it before.

I remember getting driving lessons and on the first day the instructor explaining about obstacles on our side of the roads, parked cars bin day etc. as there were a few about the area we were driving. Easy to play armchair detective here I know but from the sounds of the reporting the guy just gunned it around the cards without proper care as to whether the roads was clear.

fat bloke

Am I the only one who reads "jury" and thinks "drivers"?