Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

beauf

MojoMaker wrote: »

The weekend end summertime partial closure of Chesterfield Avenue is an absolute delight. For a few hours a city park becomes a park once more, where you aren't looking over your shoulder wondering where the next car is coming from.

Unless of course you are on the furry glen (or similar) where there will be more cars. Kinda open mouth change foot from the OPW that one. I think you largely missed or ignored my point that these plans often require you to drive more not less in the park.

MojoMaker wrote: »

Likewise during Lockdown I anyway, a joy to be in a city park largely free of motorised traffic. Only took Garda checkpoints on the way in to make it viable of course, and as soon as those checkpoints disappeared in lockdown II the motoring lobby worked to get the gates open again so PP became a free-for-all once more, even though the Navan Road and the M50 never went anywhere.....

Only took a global pandemic and everywhere shutdown, and half the country not working, or at school, I think would be more accurate.

Maybe they didn't want to park up on the Navan Road, or the M50 and bring Grandma for a walk, or such. Especially on a Sunny day. Maybe?

Of course it could be those dang commuters, tricking people by going to park on a nice day on the way to work, on a weekend.

MojoMaker

Resistance to change is all it is beauf. Plenty of folks that didn't satisfy the 2kms/5kms condition or essential journey conditions turned away from the gates of the PP in lockdown I. Not so much in lockdown II and later unfortunately.

beauf

MojoMaker wrote: »

Resistance to change is all it is beauf. Plenty of folks that didn't satisfy the 2kms/5kms condition or essential journey conditions turned away from the gates of the PP in lockdown I. Not so much in lockdown II and later unfortunately.

I've no idea what that means.

Let's have workable plan. Repeating the last one that didn't work. Seems unlikely to succeed.

I don't really care. Won't effect me much either way. It's not on my route to work. I avoid it at peak at the weekends. Go crazy with it..

MojoMaker

Fair enough. Anyway, most of the recent dialogue was generated by Larbre34 railing against closure of the side gates - which you have just indicated doesn't bother you in the slightest as a local resident.

As another local resident, it's a boon.

beauf

It doesn't bother me because we've been here many times over the years. Close a road, reopen it, close it, reopen. We've only just gone through this cycle in lockdown.

If they close of all the side routes, with only the main road open, right thorough the middle. What happens when they want to close chesterfield section for summer weekends.

Larbre34

beauf wrote: »

What happens when they want to close chesterfield section for summer weekends.

It won't be possible in future, once really any of the options under realistic consideration begin to be implemented.

nannerby

If the cycle lane on chesterfield avenue is made permanent will it be protected by bollards or a raised surface of some kind? The cones there at the minute have taken a right battering from motorists so if they are not improved upon it will still be dangerous to cycle on.

beauf

nannerby wrote: »

... it will still be dangerous to cycle on.

Are you saying its dangerous now?

MojoMaker

Count how many cones are currently missing or displaced and you'll get a feel for it fairly quickly. Proper segregation would potentially help, although not a huge fan myself - it makes overtaking trickier. At least it's a decent width, unlike the segregated track on the Goatstown/Clonskeagh Rd.

beauf

Haven't use it as as I haven't commuted since last march. If I've been in the park its been on the trails on the edges, or nipped up for a coffee.

Heart Break Kid

They need to sort out the cycling track on the north and really flag it for cyclist, person hopped on and didn't look behind them jammed the breaks so they weren't hurt but leg was swollen for a while after hitting off the pedals.

beauf

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

They need to sort out the cycling track on the north and really flag it for cyclist, person hopped and didn't behind them jammed the breaks so they weren't hurt but leg was swollen for a while after hitting off the pedals.

Isn't that a form of tailgating?

I've never understood why the paths on that road are so poorly arranged.
There should be cycle lane both sides (and a pedestrian path both sides.
Clearly marked. OPW seem to think a faint marking every 1000m+ is fine or no signs.

I had a run in with an abusive dog walker with dog stretched on a lead across the cycle path and beyond. Lead was out to max insisting I go around him. I had stopped waiting for them to pass, because I had no way of predicting which way the dog would go. You meet similar in the dark dressed in black with no lights on either them or the dog. That was years ago. I think my only run in with someone in the park. Usually I just go off the path and around the walkers.

Anytime I've been in the park on the bike since the Covid. Its been pretty much empty.

MojoMaker

Those issues with ninja dogs and ninja walkers still persist sadly. It's not like the German supermarkets aren't constantly flogging flashing dog collars and illuminated dog leads for pennies is it?

Gotten to the stage where it might be a good idea to start promoting the use of personal lights if you're out walking in unlit places like the PP.

Dr_Colossus

nannerby wrote: »

If the cycle lane on chesterfield avenue is made permanent will it be protected by bollards or a raised surface of some kind? The cones there at the minute have taken a right battering from motorists so if they are not improved upon it will still be dangerous to cycle on.

beauf wrote: »

Are you saying its dangerous now?

Wouldn't classify it as dangerous and it's a great improvement on the previous cycle lane that was littered with pedestrians but the cones do add an element of danger. Seen one car (likely on phone) ahead of me clip a cone and send it into the grass verve, if I or anyone else had been cycling further ahead they'd have been instantly floored and likely injured (cones are heavy with a low centre of gravity). Cones are often scattered about and always in the cycle lane rather than out on the road so do require some observation and slaloming at times.

AlanG

As a bike Commuter I find the new cycle lanes on chesterfield avenue to be great but as a parent they are terrible. You can no longer let young kids cycle safely in the park without being right beside them as the cycle lane is too close to the traffic. This drives cycling families onto the walking paths which causes a lot of conflict. A kerb and proper segregation of the cycle lane would greatly improve matters.

beauf

I see your point. Cones are dangerous themselves.

cgcsb

MojoMaker wrote: »

Count how many cones are currently missing or displaced and you'll get a feel for it fairly quickly. Proper segregation would potentially help, although not a huge fan myself - it makes overtaking trickier. At least it's a decent width, unlike the segregated track on the Goatstown/Clonskeagh Rd.

I'm more alarmed by how they think the cyclists are supposed to go through the roundabouts on Chesterfield.

beauf

MojoMaker wrote: »

Those issues with ninja dogs and ninja walkers still persist sadly. It's not like the German supermarkets aren't constantly flogging flashing dog collars and illuminated dog leads for pennies is it?

Gotten to the stage where it might be a good idea to start promoting the use of personal lights if you're out walking in unlit places like the PP.

I think you have to treat it like a park and not like a tour de france time trial. There are other users, animals, kids etc. They are unpredictable. Once had a someone's dog run straight onto the road, and dent the car wing with his head. I've also had a deer jump the car bonnet. They could run into a pedestrian or cyclists just as easily.

Mercian Pro

For those who haven't looked at the report yet, this is the proposed cycling map


One thing that's very disappointing is that there is no real indication of what any of the four cycling route types will look like. There are general references on pg 86 to "formalise the current the current temporary cycle lane on Chesterfield Avenue" and to "additional cycling routes as well as upgrades to existing cycling routes should be to the standard set out in the the NTA's National Cycling Manual, where appropriate".

Looking at the perimeter loop, there are two very welcome new Shared Walking/Cycling sections but how will they be shared? Like the Khyber Road possibly but provision has to be made for the proposed bus up near the Cabra Gate! What form will the Proposed Cycle Routes take given that there will still be some cars allowed on the Military, Upper Glen and Ordenance Survey Roads? How is it intended that the Existing Cycle Routes on the Wellington Road and the western section of the North Road be upgraded?

The is reference in the phasing proposals to implementing some of the road closures, monitoring the impact and then designing the permanent scheme. This could be seen as just kicking the can down the road but it might actually result in a better overall result for pedestrians and cyclists.

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm more alarmed by how they think the cyclists are supposed to go through the roundabouts on Chesterfield.

It far easier to merge with traffic and go through pretending you're a car. Take the lane etc. On the old cycle lane, you had to pretend you were a pedestrian.

beauf

AlanG wrote: »

As a bike Commuter I find the new cycle lanes on chesterfield avenue to be great but as a parent they are terrible. You can no longer let young kids cycle safely in the park without being right beside them as the cycle lane is too close to the traffic. This drives cycling families onto the walking paths which causes a lot of conflict. A kerb and proper segregation of the cycle lane would greatly improve matters.

I think these threads (and road design) fail to recognize there are different types of cyclists. As do cyclists. Its not suitable to be doing high speed on a cycle lane/path with slow cyclists. A lane suitable for high speed training and commuters may not be suited for slower cyclists, elderly, family, tourists.

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

It far easier to merge with traffic and go through pretending you're a car. Take the lane etc. On the old cycle lane, you had to pretend you were a pedestrian.

That's fine for me to be honest but children, women and novice cyclists will generally dismount for these sections.

Larbre34

cgcsb wrote: »

That's fine for me to be honest but children, women and novice cyclists will generally dismount for these sections.

If my wife was in earshot of that, she'd give you a boot in the stones you wouldn't soon forget.

MojoMaker

That's probably wise. I believe the small roundabout at the Castleknock gate end of the park is the #1 location in the whole park where you're most likely to be involved in an incident. Followed swiftly by the Phoenix Monument roundabout and then the smaller one at the Parkgate St end of the park. Also the upper Glen rd where it intersects with the Furze Rd. Cars coming up from the Knockmaroon gate never seem to really take into account cycling traffic from their right in particular.

cgcsb

Larbre34 wrote: »

If my wife was in earshot of that, she'd give you a boot in the stones you wouldn't soon forget.

Surveys show that the vast majority of cycling commuters are men and women are less likely to commute by bike, the biggest reason shown is perceptions of danger. I don't think it's offensive to point out that generally women are more risk averse.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-41737483

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

That's fine for me to be honest but children, women and novice cyclists will generally dismount for these sections.

Either is fine. So wheres the issue. Its not like there a lot of roundabouts.

beauf

MojoMaker wrote: »

That's probably wise. I believe the small roundabout at the Castleknock gate end of the park is the #1 location in the whole park where you're most likely to be involved in an incident. Followed swiftly by the Phoenix Monument roundabout and then the smaller one at the Parkgate St end of the park. Also the upper Glen rd where it intersects with the Furze Rd. Cars coming up from the Knockmaroon gate never seem to really take into account cycling traffic from their right in particular.

I have been deliberately been blanked and cut across on the Castleknock end rounadabout a few times. I just let them on their way. The majority of drivers seem happy to let you merge once you stay inline.

cgcsb

beauf wrote: »

Either is fine. So wheres the issue. Its not like there a lot of roundabouts.

The central thrust of transport policy that underpins all recent projects is that cycling should be an available option for all ability levels that means continuous infrastructure and properly designed junctions.

beauf

I've seen nothing in recent projects that is following any common design philosophy. Seems like every project is done entirely differently.

Is anything like this in Ireland? Note the right of way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR5l48_h5Eo&ab_channel=FrankvanCaspel

Weepsie

cgcsb wrote: »

That's fine for me to be honest but children, women and novice cyclists will generally dismount for these sections.

:rolleyes: