Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

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cgcsb wrote: »

That's fine for me to be honest but children, women and novice cyclists will generally dismount for these sections.

:rolleyes: I have never gotten off my bike to make it around a junction. Nor have any of my female friends. You're making a wildly unsubstantiated generalisation there.

Plenty of novices and kids don't either. Come to think of it, in my daily commute through the park I've never seen a cyclist dismount the roundabouts. That's not to say people don't, but it's not as common as you think.

hesker

beauf wrote: »

I've seen nothing in recent projects that is following any common design philosophy. Seems like every project is done entirely differently.

Is anything like this in Ireland? Note the right of way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR5l48_h5Eo&ab_channel=FrankvanCaspel

That’s impressive. Not only the design but also the number of cyclists vs motorists travelling through that roundabout.

magicbastarder

reminds me a bit of being in italy in a car (as a passenger, not a driver), and motorists entering roundabouts had priority over motorists already on the roundabout. a strange system.

beauf

eeeee wrote: »

.... I've never seen a cyclist dismount the roundabouts. That's not to say people don't, but it's not as common as you think....

Never seen it in the park. In city centre at particularly tricky junctions you see the odd person do it. Or if it's a lot shorter than going around.

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beauf wrote: »

Never seen it in the park. In city centre at particularly tricky junctions you see the odd person do it. Or if it's a lot shorter than going around.

Yeah I was talking about the park specifically.

I have seen people dismount and take the pedestrian path across a junction outside the park alright.
It always makes me feel sad that they don't feel safe enough to cross the junction as normal. And I think hopefully things will get better and everyone can stay on the road they're already travelling on to go off it. It's an automatic micro thought.

beauf

The park probably has more people not used to cycling.

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beauf wrote: »

The park probably has more people not used to cycling.

I have never seen someone do it in the park, just outside it. I'll edit my post to make it clearer.

beauf

I meant a tourist or a family out for an easy cycle won't be trying to minimise stopping in the same way a regular commuter will.

KevRossi

hesker wrote: »

That’s impressive. Not only the design but also the number of cyclists vs motorists travelling through that roundabout.

There's a school just out of shot in the bottom left of the video. If that was here the place would be at standstill for a km or so in each direction with parents dropping kids off.

beauf

We've a cycle lane all the way to the school. But its stops short by about 2000m. Because there is a roundabout there that has no facilities for cyclists at all. As a result there is lollipop lady and most kids cross there before the roundabout.

In my immediate are there are about 10 roundabout, there are no two the same with regards to cyclists. It's just completely random how they are laid out and integrate with the cycle lanes or not. A confused mess. None adhere to any standard. Some have cycle lanes on one side but not the other.

Duckjob

hesker wrote: »

That’s impressive. Not only the design but also the number of cyclists vs motorists travelling through that roundabout.

Apart from the fact that it's a wonderful environment from a cycling POV, it's an amazingly efficient movement of people.

Not a single road user spends time stopped unnecessarily.

It's the polar opposite of our traffic light systems where large chunks of "stop everything else" priority are blocked off to cater for the least efficient transport modes while the most efficient modes must sit waiting at length before they are allowed continue their journey.

VonLuck

The problem with that roundabout in the Netherlands and incorporating it here is that it is a completely new way of behaviour that drivers (and cyclists) would need to learn. You can expect a few close calls or potentially worse in the teething stages. There doesn't appear to be any signage or lights to warn drivers so you would be relying on road markings and drivers treating them like pedestrian crossings.

hesker

VonLuck wrote: »

The problem with that roundabout in the Netherlands and incorporating it here is that it is a completely new way of behaviour that drivers (and cyclists) would need to learn. You can expect a few close calls or potentially worse in the teething stages. There doesn't appear to be any signage or lights to warn drivers so you would be relying on road markings and drivers treating them like pedestrian crossings.

More of a challenge than a problem though. And one that could be met with a bit of training, and a few fines if needed to push that along. It’s quite likely the Netherlands had to progress through this change also

beauf

A bigger issue is people have to want to change. With the Anti-Cycling agenda in the media and elsewhere. The majority of society in general doesn't want to change.

plodder

What's most striking about that roundabout is the low speed of the cars and vans. The worst thing we ever did was to put traffic lights on roundabouts here, which gives the green light (literally) to drive through roundabouts without having to slow down at all.

hesker

beauf wrote: »

A bigger issue is people have to want to change. With the Anti-Cycling agenda in the media and elsewhere society in general doesn't want to change.

Yes consensus is valuable but maybe not essential. The government has the power to press for changes that are in the greater good. But likely some other driver would be needed like EU directives.

Thelonious Monk

hesker wrote: »

Yes consensus is valuable but maybe not essential. The government has the power to press for changes that are in the greater good. But likely some other driver would be needed like EU directives.

How can they press for changes though? That would lose them their constituents.

hesker

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

How can they press for changes though? That would lose them their constituents.

Yes, there’s that risk. Hence why I mentioned EU directives.

Thelonious Monk

hesker wrote: »

Yes, there’s that risk. Hence why I mentioned EU directives.

Yes some nice EU policies on spending X amount of transport budget on cycling/walking would be great, and not using it in roundabout ways to resurface roads etc.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

The majority of society in general doesn't want to change.

Yep, people hate change. People hate having to do anything that is outside the parameters of what they normally expect, like they're being inconvenienced in some reprehensible manner when all you're doing is asking them to be more aware of the impact they're having on people.

There's a cul-de-sac in Fairview (in Dublin), right beside the metal pedestrian bridge where traffic coming onto the main road has an awful habit of blocking the cycle lane. See the blue van here for an example of what I mean. It's already a nightmare along there with people opening doors without looking or folks running across the road cos they're too lazy to use the bridge.

I was coming home one evening and there was a car turning right where that van is, but he was back a bit further, not blocking the lane. As the cars to my right passed him, there was no more traffic on my/our side of the road......so he inched out, blocking the entirety of the cycle lane and most of the first lane for cars. He looked straight at me, pulled out, stopped, and looked left to wait for a break in traffic on the other side to complete his turn.

I had to jam on so I didn't end up sliding across the roof of the car while the bike crumpled into his offside passenger door. I asked him WTF he was doing and he got out of the car to start a confrontation. People turn into animals behind the wheel.

I couldn't help but think of this.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ5E77W-8rU

Thelonious Monk

The fact that Fairview has been able to function as it is, and I think it's the busiest cycle route in Ireland or one of them, shows how little people will tolerate change. There should be no parking along that strip from Amiens St to the Howth road and a protected cycle lane in this day and age. Ridiculous.

MojoMaker

Sorry to hear that $hifty. How long ago was it and did you get a result out of it afterwards?

Sounds like you ran into a scumbag. Plenty of them around sadly.

buffalo

Consultation open - it's one of those ghastly virtual rooms: https://phoenixpark.virtualeventspace.io/

Give me the PDFs!

Mercian Pro

buffalo wrote: »

Consultation open - it's one of those ghastly virtual rooms: https://phoenixpark.virtualeventspace.io/

If you have more than one or two points to make, the online response form is pretty pathetic. Most of it is taken up with personal information and principles you couldn’t possibly disagree with and there are just a couple of boxes for elaboration. You are probably better off emailing your response to parkmobilityreport@opw.ie Two of the bigger problems with the report for me are the complete absense of any indication of how the road space will be allocated/segregated when as a cyclist you are sharing with pedestrians and/or cars and/or a bus and the lack of any consideration of moving or closing the existing car parks. The latter has resulted in large sections of the southern perimeter road being kept open to cars with no hint of how cycling and walking routes are going to be improved.
If you regularly cycle in the Park, or might be tempted to in the future, it is well worth reading the report and making a submission.

beauf

This seems to be Hobson's choice

Click here if you agree
Click here if you do not disagree

Probably best to get some popcorn and watch the predictable happen like does everytime.

YakerK

segregation is great in theory - but actually finding the park less good for cycling recently during the periods where they've restricted traffic. Pedestrians have zero respect for cycling. Cars make them keep their wits about them and their eyes on their dogs/kids. Once the cars are gone they seem to feel it's grand just to wander around the place without a care in the world. Bike Lane markings are invisible to most it seems.

Although close second place in the idiocy table are the cyclists who cycle down cycle lanes the wrong way...., at least can see them coming though!

I'm actually minded to oppose this unless they find a way to manage that issue.

MojoMaker

Thankfully we're not seeing any peds in the new on-road segregated cycle tracks on Chesterfield avenue at least. Was challenging when bikes were back up on the old cycle tracks, where pedestrians routinely dumped out from cars kerbside and headed off with the dog + family in the middle of the lane.

That bit at least has improved.

Mercian Pro

Normally a lot of runners, some walkers and the odd wrong-way cyclist but this was a first today on the North Road cyclelane.

AndrewJRenko

buffalo wrote: »

Consultation open - it's one of those ghastly virtual rooms: https://phoenixpark.virtualeventspace.io/

Give me the PDFs!

Out of the frying pan, into the fire!

HTML please. The whole feckin web runs on HTML. Why do people try to reinvent the wheel to make things harder to use?

KevRossi

I've often seen them along that stretch, the stables are over the wall on the right I think.