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Annual leave reduction due to COVID-19 Wage Subsidy Scheme

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  • 11-05-2020 1:08pm
    #1
    Throwaway89
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭


    Hi all,

    The company I work for are availing of the 70% Wage Subsidy Scheme and topping it up by the 30%. I am still fulltime and working 40hrs a week from home. I have got no issues with any of that. Luckily work has been busy and I've enough to keep me going for now.

    However, my problem is when it comes to leave, we have been told by the company, that leave will not be accruing leave during this time. The Wage Subsidy Scheme (currently) lasts up to 12wks, so that is give or take 25% of the year.

    My leave is the statutory 20days.

    Meaning that for 2020, I have got 15days leave, my question is - is this legal?

    I am not interested in whether this is fair or not, or opinions on my leave entitlement, it is just a legal question and if it is legal under what grounds?

    Thank you.


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    #2
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I'm a little confused. My understanding was that the wage subsidy scheme was to keep you on the books while you are unable to work due to the covid-19 lockdown restrictions.

    If you are working from home full time they are not entitled to claim.

    Assuming I'm right (very open to correction) their calculations are based correctly on the fact that you were not supposed to be working during this time. If you were working then its a bit of a problem. You could suck it up and no one gets in trouble or you could make an issue of it and take it to the labour commission and someones proverbial are on the line for it...perhaps yours.


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    #3
    Throwaway89
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Throwaway89


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    I'm a little confused. My understanding was that the wage subsidy scheme was to keep you on the books while you are unable to work due to the covid-19 lockdown restrictions.

    If you are working from home full time they are not entitled to claim.

    Assuming I'm right (very open to correction) their calculations are based correctly on the fact that you were not supposed to be working during this time. If you were working then its a bit of a problem. You could suck it up and no one gets in trouble or you could make an issue of it and take it to the labour commission and someones proverbial are on the line for it...perhaps yours.

    Hi Wabbit,

    Thanks for your reply, from my understanding the 70% goverment subsidy scheme is to keep you in employment, but to support the business since revenue is down. It's different to the €350 COVID payment you can claim if you've been made redundant due to COVID - If you're claiming this you can't be working obviously, but can with the subsidy.


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    #4
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,570 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    I'm a little confused. My understanding was that the wage subsidy scheme was to keep you on the books while you are unable to work due to the covid-19 lockdown restrictions.

    If you are working from home full time they are not entitled to claim.

    Assuming I'm right (very open to correction) their calculations are based correctly on the fact that you were not supposed to be working during this time. If you were working then its a bit of a problem. You could suck it up and no one gets in trouble or you could make an issue of it and take it to the labour commission and someones proverbial are on the line for it...perhaps yours.

    No, the wage subsidy scheme is available to any business which can show a 25% reduction in orders/business during the lockdown, irrespective of whether employee continues to work or is laid off temporarily.

    Op, if you are working full time at home, you are accruing AL. AL would not be accrued if you were temporarily laid off.


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    #5
    Throwaway89
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Throwaway89


    Dav010 wrote: »

    Op, if you are working full time at home, you are accruing AL. AL would not be accrued if you were temporarily laid off.

    Hi - thanks for your reply. I understand this is usually the case, but I wanted to see if anyone knew of any COVID subsidy payment or something along those lines that the company might be using as a loophole.

    I'm not going to fight this battle with my employer yet, but wanted to be 100% before I do.


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    #6
    Vologda69
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Vologda69


    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_during_covid19_restrictions.html

    See section on annual leave


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    #7
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    Dav010 wrote: »
    No, the wage subsidy scheme is available to any business which can show a 25% reduction in orders/business during the lockdown, irrespective of whether employee continues to work or is laid off temporarily.

    Op, if you are working full time at home, you are accruing AL. AL would not be accrued if you were temporarily laid off.

    thats only one half of the requirement, the OP is not meeting the other half:

    Who can apply for the Temporary COVID-19 Wage Subsidy Scheme?
    The Scheme is available to employers from all sectors (except for the public service and non-commercial semi-state sector) who have lost a minimum of 25% of turnover because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Employers will have to make a declaration to Revenue confirming this.

    The scheme is available for employers who keep staff on their payroll during the pandemic. Employees can be:

    Temporarily not working (laid off) or
    On reduced hours and/or reduced pay


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    #8
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,574 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    If your working 40hrs a week your accruing holiday entitlements.

    Ask them for a copy of the details from the government information where it says your not accruing annual leave, I’ve not seen that anywhere.

    We have workers at home in full pay doing nothing and they are accruing annual leave as normal.


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    #9
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,570 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    thats only one half of the requirement, the OP is not meeting the other half:

    Who can apply for the Temporary COVID-19 Wage Subsidy Scheme?
    The Scheme is available to employers from all sectors (except for the public service and non-commercial semi-state sector) who have lost a minimum of 25% of turnover because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Employers will have to make a declaration to Revenue confirming this.

    The scheme is available for employers who keep staff on their payroll during the pandemic. Employees can be:

    Temporarily not working (laid off) or
    On reduced hours and/or reduced pay

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/communications/documents/guidance-on-employer-eligibility-and-supporting-proofs.pdf

    On this one, skip down to section 2.6 to 3.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/pmod-topics/guidance-on-operation-of-temporary-covid-wage-subsidy-scheme.pdf


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    #10
    Throwaway89
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Throwaway89


    Hi all,

    I've resolved the issue. Many thanks for your replies.

    @Mods can you please close the thread?

    Cheers.


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    #11
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,574 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Be nice to know how it worked out


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    #12
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Throwaway89 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I've resolved the issue. Many thanks for your replies.

    @Mods can you please close the thread?

    Cheers.

    Very selfish


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    #13
    Throwaway89
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Throwaway89


    _Brian wrote: »
    Be nice to know how it worked out

    Hey Brian,

    I took the advice from here, then called citizens information to confirm everything.

    Called HR, asked them to clarify their standing and reasoning.

    I pointed them in the direction of all the relevant information and HR then came back later that day saying they'd interpreted it wrong and will update the rest of the staff too.

    All sorted now.


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    #14
    snowgal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭snowgal


    Just on all the above, Ive asked in another thread, but maybe someone here will have an answer... Can you ask your employees to work full time even if you the company are on;y paying them 30% of their salary and are availing of the 70% wage subsidy from the government? Obviously throwaway is doing this as above but I cannot find it anywhere legally to say you can do this. That section 2.6 as stated above is helpful but doesn't quite say yes or no. Our accountant has told the Director that we can only ask employees to come in to work for 30% of their normal time at present.


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    #15
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,570 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    snowgal wrote: »
    Just on all the above, Ive asked in another thread, but maybe someone here will have an answer... Can you ask your employees to work full time even if you the company are on;y paying them 30% of their salary and are availing of the 70% wage subsidy from the government? Obviously throwaway is doing this as above but I cannot find it anywhere legally to say you can do this. That section 2.6 as stated above is helpful but doesn't quite say yes or no. Our accountant has told the Director that we can only ask employees to come in to work for 30% of their normal time at present.

    Yes. The wage subsidy is designed to keep people in employment. If the company can show that orders/turnover dropped by 25% as a result of Covid, they can top up to full wage and still be entitled to subsidy if you are working full time.


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    #16
    snowgal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭snowgal


    thanks for that. Its kind of what I know already its just finding it in writing to show the boss!


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    #17
    tiredblondie
    Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭tiredblondie


    snowgal wrote: »
    Just on all the above, Ive asked in another thread, but maybe someone here will have an answer... Can you ask your employees to work full time even if you the company are on;y paying them 30% of their salary and are availing of the 70% wage subsidy from the government? Obviously throwaway is doing this as above but I cannot find it anywhere legally to say you can do this. That section 2.6 as stated above is helpful but doesn't quite say yes or no. Our accountant has told the Director that we can only ask employees to come in to work for 30% of their normal time at present.

    My job is availing of it, 70% and they top up 30% - i continue to work 7hrs a day 5 days a week.


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