Let's discuss the future of Irish Rail

foggyflies

[HTML]https://medium.com/@HeberRowan/lets-talk-about-the-irish-rail-network-40b868543d43 [/HTML]

Interesting article that is also on Broadsheet.ie today discussing the development of Irish rail longer term.

theballz

I worry for them.

the dark phantom

A railway company that hates railways.

Thrashssacre

I think there relatively safe particularly within the gda, we just couldn't afford to lose that kinda capacity in moving people particularly at peak times in a city with such a woeful level of traffic in comparison to its population.

Chinasea

Most of the train stations are filthy. A quick sporadic wipe down with a mankey auld mop and cloth is all they get. Management starts here, or lack of it in actual fact.

Have you seen the ground floor entrance hall in Connolly?

Travelled recently to Belfast on Irish Rail. Paid a fortune for my ticket after queuing for ages to collect it. Was not asked once to show my ticket.

Then we have the other issue with ridiculous cohorts of our population travelling for free. Everyone should pay, all be it at a reduced fare.

sweet_trip

The Waterford to Limerick junction line could be a heavily used commuter line if they simply just put a couple extra trains on per day at reasonable hours.

The road from waterford to limerick is so heavily travelled, it reminds me of the old waterford to dublin road before the motorway. Lethal, deathtrap, congested.

The amount of people who commute between Clonmel/Carrick to Waterford and the other direction, you haveCahir and Tipp town on the line too.

That line is currently closed due to covid and more than likely will never re-open.

Likewise, the Waterford to Dublin line is one of the busiest lines on the IE network. Regularly packed full trains. You think they'd have the desire to also utilise that line a bit better and put on extra commuter trains between Kilkenny/Carlow? Nope.

And then of course you have the closed since 2010 Rosslare that has multiple village stops on the route.

Historically you also had a line to New Ross and Wexford
Also, Waterford to Tramore and Dungarvan.

Imagine if all these lines still operated. People commute to these towns em mass every day.

The roads and traffic into Waterford has never been more congested pre lockdown.

There's piss poor bus services so nearly everyone just piles into their car and travels the ****ty roads directly into the city centre every day.



Makes me despair because I know we'll never have a decent railway service despite IE having all the cards to utilise but they seem hellbent on destroying their own network and not giving a ****.


I'll never understand why they're so hellbent on destroying their own network. Corruption no doubt.

Sheep Shagger

It's more like an employment agency than a train operator.

Too many vested interests to make improvements, like a lot of semi states the world over.

donvito99

sweet_trip wrote: »

Makes me despair because I know we'll never have a decent railway service despite IE having all the cards to utilise but they seem hellbent on destroying their own network and not giving a ****.

They don't have enough trains to meet demand on well patroned lines so why would they waste stock on reopening a train to Wellingtonbridge?

I'll never understand why they're so hellbent on destroying their own network. Corruption no doubt.

Try lack of resources.

Shefwedfan

Only hope is with the Greens coming in they might oput more of a focus on trains,. We should have a train system connecting all of Ireland. We should be able to get a train from Dublin to Donegal etc. Not the current half assed offering we have in place

intellectual dosser

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Only hope is with the Greens coming in they might oput more of a focus on trains,. We should have a train system connecting all of Ireland. We should be able to get a train from Dublin to Donegal etc. Not the current half assed offering we have in place

Here is their Election 2020 manifesto on Transport, page 6 covers rail.

My synopsis is that it focuses on improving existing infrastructure, but I wouldnt be optimistic about new lines or connections (bar within Dublin City; metro north etc).

xckjoo

I like taking trains but avoid Irish ones if at all possible. Slower than the bus, prone to long, unexpected delays and you're basically an inconvenience to them. Once heard an employee tell a tourist to "f**k off back to your own country" when he was complaining about a long delay which they gave us zero information on.

sweet_trip

donvito99 wrote: »

They don't have enough trains to meet demand on well patroned lines so why would they waste stock on reopening a train to Wellingtonbridge?




Try lack of resources.

They've had decades to sort that out. I've no sympathy for them, they could have been hiring staff and investing in new stock and lines but nope. Joke that 2018 was the first time they've ever recruited drivers externally.

donvito99

sweet_trip wrote: »

They've had decades to sort that out. I've no sympathy for them, they could have been hiring staff and investing in new stock and lines but nope. Joke that 2018 was the first time they've ever recruited drivers externally.

The Government (now via the NTA) is responsible for funding, not CIE.

Muahahaha

The building of the motorway network means they'll never be competitive in journey times or in costs of tickets vs. filling a tank of petrol. If you've 2 or more people in the car you're actually saving money over buying rail tickets plus you'll get there quicker.

One line they should re-open is Dublin to Navan, its lying there unused and has the demand to make it sustainable. But it wasnt even done back in the Celtic Tiger when the country was awash with money and Navan based Noel Dempsey was the Minister for Transport. Navan is now a town of 30,000 still with no rail connection to Dublin.

That aside the Maynooth and Drogheda lines badly need to be electrified for Dart but even that seems years away.

donvito99

Muahahaha wrote: »

That aside the Maynooth and Drogheda lines badly need to be electrified for Dart but even that seems years away.

The electrification projects were progressing nicely (Maynooth at least) prior to COVID.

Michael McDowell is in the Irish Times bemoaning the idea of investing in a substantial way in public transport, which offers a good insight into the psyches of politicians and civil servants alike.

suicide_circus

Chinasea wrote: »

Then we have the other issue with ridiculous cohorts of our population travelling for free. Everyone should pay, all be it at a reduced fare.

Good luck with that. You are 100% right, the situation is ridiculous. Countries with far higher spends on public transport, with world class networks such as Austria require everyone to pay SOMETHING for their journey and no one bats at eyelid but somehow a cynical and unnecessary piece of vote grabbing is now seen as a human right in Ireland.

Shefwedfan

Muahahaha wrote: »

The building of the motorway network means they'll never be competitive in journey times or in costs of tickets vs. filling a tank of petrol. If you've 2 or more people in the car you're actually saving money over buying rail tickets plus you'll get there quicker.

One line they should re-open is Dublin to Navan, its lying there unused and has the demand to make it sustainable. But it wasnt even done back in the Celtic Tiger when the country was awash with money and Navan based Noel Dempsey was the Minister for Transport. Navan is now a town of 30,000 still with no rail connection to Dublin.

That aside the Maynooth and Drogheda lines badly need to be electrified for Dart but even that seems years away.

I don't understand this maths


So I need to go to Cork for a meeting. I can spend 6 hours in a car doing nothing or I can spend 6 hours on a train working. The cost to my company even if I go first class is a lot cheaper than me sitting in a car for 6 hours, plus the cost of fuel etc


People are not considering the full cost of travel, especially when on business. I find it very shortsighten for people to waste a day sitting in a car if they can do the exact same trip on a train


I do agree the Navan train line should be reopened, but why stop in Navan, run it all the way to Donegal. The traffic from Cavan to Dublin every day and a train would free this up.

Randy Archer

Chinasea wrote: »

Most of the train stations are filthy. A quick sporadic wipe down with a mankey auld mop and cloth is all they get. Management starts here, or lack of it in actual fact.

Have you seen the ground floor entrance hall in Connolly?

Travelled recently to Belfast on Irish Rail. Paid a fortune for my ticket after queuing for ages to collect it. Was not asked once to show my ticket.

Then we have the other issue with ridiculous cohorts of our population travelling for free. Everyone should pay, all be it at a reduced fare.

The ghastly site of drug fuelled peasants and beggars ? Truly ghastly. Kip of a place too. Hardly enticing for tourists , even if they are coming down from Belfast, an even bigger kip

Travelling with Irish rail is no longer affordable, especially on a a Friday

whisky_galore

Randy Archer wrote: »

The ghastly site of drug fuelled peasants and beggars ? Truly ghastly. Kip of a place too. Hardly enticing for tourists , even if they are coming down from Belfast, an even bigger kip

Travelling with Irish rail is no longer affordable, especially on a a Friday

I visited Belfast earlier this year and found it reasonably pleasant, I wasn't besieged by hoardes of the living dead like Dumpland.

Cookie_Monster

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't understand this maths


So I need to go to Cork for a meeting. I can spend 6 hours in a car doing nothing or I can spend 6 hours on a train working. The cost to my company even if I go first class is a lot cheaper than me sitting in a car for 6 hours, plus the cost of fuel etc


People are not considering the full cost of travel, especially when on business. I find it very shortsighten for people to waste a day sitting in a car if they can do the exact same trip on a train


I do agree the Navan train line should be reopened, but why stop in Navan, run it all the way to Donegal. The traffic from Cavan to Dublin every day and a train would free this up.

Or skype/ zoom/ teams and no waste of 6 hours at all...

Shefwedfan

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Or skype/ zoom/ teams and no waste of 6 hours at all...

Depends on what you are doing. Skype/zoom is always an option but not for everything

ArmaniJeanss

Chinasea wrote: »

Travelled recently to Belfast on Irish Rail. Paid a fortune for my ticket after queuing for ages to collect it. Was not asked once to show my ticket.

Maximum of €20 each way, even for a pay-on-the-day fare. It's one of the more reasonable fares in Europe I'd have thought.

Lots of our fares are silly prices, but Dublin/Belfast isn't one of them.

dundalkfc10

whisky_galore wrote: »

I visited Belfast earlier this year and found it reasonably pleasant, I wasn't besieged by hoardes of the living dead like Dumpland.

Il agree one major thing about Belfast is when you arrive into the City, its not full of scumbags and junkies roaming the main streets.

If you enter Dublin City from the Northside, its a disgrace

Thats not Dublin bashing its a fact, I like Dublin (most of the time)

Geuze

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Maximum of €20 each way, even for a pay-on-the-day fare. It's one of the more reasonable fares in Europe I'd have thought.

Lots of our fares are silly prices, but Dublin/Belfast isn't one of them.

I'm seeing:

38 single
40 day return
55 open return

??????

https://www.irishrail.ie/rail-fares-and-tickets/fares-info/dublin-belfast

Geuze

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Maximum of €20 each way, even for a pay-on-the-day fare. It's one of the more reasonable fares in Europe I'd have thought.

Lots of our fares are silly prices, but Dublin/Belfast isn't one of them.

I'm guessing you mean these "web online" fares:

https://www.irishrail.ie/offer/webfares

Belfast from 17.99

Shefwedfan

Geuze wrote: »

I'm seeing:

38 single
40 day return
55 open return

??????

https://www.irishrail.ie/rail-fares-and-tickets/fares-info/dublin-belfast

If I book for next wednesday it is 20 quid for the flexible ticket so maximum of 39.98 return, Cheaper if you specify times.



Your not going to drive up and down for cheaper

ArmaniJeanss

Geuze wrote: »

I'm guessing you mean these "web online" fares:

https://www.irishrail.ie/offer/webfares

Belfast from 17.99

Even if you turn up on the day at Connolly Station without a ticket, the price to Belfast is €20 each way. It's not just a pre-booking online thing.
I'm struggling to see how that could ever be 'paid a fortune' as the poster said.

Maybe the pricing has changed recently - it has been €20 at the ticket office for years but for obvious reasons it's been 2 months since I made that trip.

edit : I always do day return of €40, so that's where I'm getting €20 from. Maybe if you do single only you get screwed?

cruizer101

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Your not going to drive up and down for cheaper

320km round trip dublin to belfast, at say 8 l/100km (you could do lot better than that also) thats 25.6 l of fuel at say 1.40 per litre thats €35.84.
Yes you might have parking and toll also but thats not much and going via train you may well have a taxi fare at either end or parking to pay also.

I'm not saying one is better than the other but to imply train is cheaper is wrong.

Muahahaha

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't understand this maths


So I need to go to Cork for a meeting. I can spend 6 hours in a car doing nothing or I can spend 6 hours on a train working. The cost to my company even if I go first class is a lot cheaper than me sitting in a car for 6 hours, plus the cost of fuel etc

Yeah and thats grand for the very small percentage of people who that trip works for and for those it does they are generally doing it. But it only works if both the start and the end of the journey are close to train stations. If you live in Swords and your meeting is in Skibbereen they you spend 45-50 minutes getting a bus to town, another 20 on the Luas getting to Hueston just to get the train by which time you would already be past Newbridge in a car with no stopping all the way to Cork. At the other end they'd then have to get a Bus Eireann onwards, best of luck with that and being on time for the business meeting.

The trains work for individual travellers whose are close to train stations. But once you have two passengers or more the car is a no brainer when it come to vaue for money. Family of 2 adults/2 kids going Dublin to Cork would cost 150-225 euro return on the train, for that amount of diesel you could drive to Cork, do a lap of Kerry then head up all the way up to Galway for a lap of Connemare and back to Dublin again and still have change left over.

I do agree the Navan train line should be reopened, but why stop in Navan, run it all the way to Donegal. The traffic from Cavan to Dublin every day and a train would free this up.

Extending the train line to Donegal or even Cavan would be complete folly. There just isnt the population density there to justify it. McGinleys buses have been running that route for over 30 years and if they struggle to fill a 50 seater bus at times then you're not going to fill a train that can hold several hundred. Lots of people commuting from Cavan but you'll find many are working in business parks around the M50, a train to the city centre would be of no use to them as they'd have to spend another 45-60 minutes on a Dublin Bus getting to where they work.

What needs to happen on that route if for the DUP to get their thumb out of their secretarian arse and allow the A5/M2 Dublin to Derry dual carriageway to go ahead. That way Derry and Letterkenny can finally have a proper link to the capital and the north west region could develop economically instead of being a disconnected basket case. But they'd rather stick their fingers up at Dublin over developing the region and bringing prosperity to it.

Shefwedfan

cruizer101 wrote: »

320km round trip dublin to belfast, at say 8 l/100km (you could do lot better than that also) thats 25.6 l of fuel at say 1.40 per litre thats €35.84.
Yes you might have parking and toll also but thats not much and going via train you may well have a taxi fare at either end or parking to pay also.

I'm not saying one is better than the other but to imply train is cheaper is wrong.

If you are working, that is four hours you are sitting in car. At 11 euro an hour you are talking about 44 euro saved.



If yiou are going on a personal trip, well then train makes even more sense as no concerns about drink driving etc. A nice cold beer on the train on way up is lovely. Believe me :P

Shefwedfan

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah and thats grand for the very small percentage of people who that trip works for and for those it does they are generally doing it. But it only works if both the start and the end of the journey are close to train stations. If you live in Swords and your meeting is in Skibbereen they you spend 45-50 minutes getting a bus to town, another 20 on the Luas getting to Hueston just to get the train by which time you would already be past Newbridge in a car with no stopping all the way to Cork. At the other end they'd then have to get a Bus Eireann onwards, best of luck with that and being on time for the business meeting.

The trains work for individual travellers whose are close to train stations. But once you have two passengers or more the car is a no brainer when it come to vaue for money. Family of 2 adults/2 kids going Dublin to Cork would cost 150-225 euro return on the train, for that amount of diesel you could drive to Cork, do a lap of Kerry then head up all the way up to Galway for a lap of Connemare and back to Dublin again and still have change left over.

Really, I live out past Swords and I use the Cork train all the time. You can use a car park at train station if you can't get a connecting train.



Of course you can come up with all sort of convuluted reasons not to use a train. If it was any other country in the World it wouldn't even be a discussion.



I didn't mention a family trip.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Extending the train line to Donegal or even Cavan would be complete folly. There just isnt the population density there to justify it. McGinleys buses have been running that route for over 30 years and if they struggle to fill a 50 seater bus at times then you're not going to fill a train that can hold several hundred. Lots of people commuting from Cavan but you'll find many are working in business parks around the M50, a train to the city centre would be of no use to them as they'd have to spend another 45-60 minutes on a Dublin Bus getting to where they work.

What needs to happen on that route if for the DUP to get their thumb out of their secretarian arse and allow the A5/M2 Dublin to Derry dual carriageway to go ahead. That way Derry and Letterkenny can finally have a proper link to the capital and the north west region could develop economically instead of being a disconnected basket case. But they'd rather stick their fingers up at Dublin over developing the region and bringing prosperity to it.

Not sure what the rant about DUP is about.


Anyway. This is the short sightness of the Irish people which drives me mad. In the UK people travel everyday into London on trains for 1-2 hours. In and out. No problem.



So if you build a train line from Dublin to Navan/Cavan you could then populate those areas and have commuters coming into Dublin. Building houses in Cavam would be a lot cheaper to Dublin, you not think so?



TO the rant about the Belfast/Derry route, they have train between Derry and Belfast. Bring the train out to Letterkenny. Then connect the letterkenny link to the Navan/Dublin one.


Would that not make sense?