Headford Road currently blocked at Carrowbrowne due to a protest

inisboffin

PCeeeee wrote: »

Then report the posts calling for violence (or worse?). Report ones you feel racist. And leave off with vague warnings to the rest of us.

Let me say I believe that if an ambulance is stopped going about it's business, and the individuals stopping it do not respond to verbal requests to desist then the state should immediately use violence, up to and including the army if necessary to disperse these individuals, whoever they might be.

I DID report them as did plenty of others. There were no vague warnings, simply stating that there was some amount of hateful sh*te posted in many of these threads, and it is completely inaccurate to say nobody generalised.

Wow. So your next step up from a verbal request is violence. You do know that enforcement doesn't go from 0-60 right? I was referring to violence by individuals, which is also against the law I believe.

Look, if people are stopping an ambulance whoever they are, they need to be moved. If people are robbing they need to be accountable, it doesn't matter who they are. Some people used this thread to go off on travellers in general, not speak about the individuals who were committing any crimes.

PCeeeee

inisboffin wrote: »

I DID report them as did plenty of others. There were no vague warnings, simply stating that there was some amount of hateful sh*te posted in many of these threads, and it is completely inaccurate to say nobody generalised.

Wow. So your next step up from a verbal request is violence. You do know that enforcement doesn't go from 0-60 right? I was referring to violence by individuals, which is also against the law I believe.

Look, if people are stopping an ambulance whoever they are, they need to be moved. If people are robbing they need to be accountable, it doesn't matter who they are. Some people used this thread to go off on travellers in general, not speak about the individuals who were committing any crimes.

Yes violence. Violence, or at least the threat of violence is how police forces work.

Requested to move. Then moved physically. That's enforcement. I have bo ideas what point you are making with your 0-60 analogy.

To return to the topic I do not see any reason why people blocking the road. Blocking healthcare workers. Blocking ambulances. Blocking us all trying to get home or to work or on a by definition on an essential journey should be entertained or tolerated. Move them immediately.

inisboffin

PCeeeee wrote: »

Yes violence. Violence, or at least the threat of violence is how police forces work.

Requested to move. Then moved physically. That's enforcement. I have bo ideas what point you are making with your 0-60 analogy.

To return to the topic I do not see any reason why people blocking the road. Blocking healthcare workers. Blocking ambulances. Blocking us all trying to get home or to work or on a by definition on an essential journey should be entertained or tolerated. Move them immediately.

violence
/ˈvʌɪəl(ə)ns/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

That's not what you are saying.

Discodog

Are the checkpoints still there ? No sign last night or this morning on Google.

PCeeeee

inisboffin wrote: »

violence
/ˈvʌɪəl(ə)ns/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

That's not what you are saying.

It is exactly what I'm saying.

PCeeeee

inisboffin wrote: »

violence
/ˈvʌɪəl(ə)ns/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

That's not what you are saying.

Would you mind a question inisboffin, do you feel that a hypothetical group of protesters blocking an ambulance on a public road should be moved physically if they fail to comply with a request to move?

flazio

PCeeeee wrote: »

Would you mind a question inisboffin, do you feel that a hypothetical group of protesters blocking an ambulance on a public road should be moved physically if they fail to comply with a request to move?

I'd treat it like any other sort of road blockage, such as a lorry shed it's load or a bridge collapse and depending on the status of the patient I'd seek an alternative route, reroute to another hospital or keep the patient stable until I can get aeromedical support from either the defence forces helicopter 112 or the coastguard.

fergiesfolly

flazio wrote: »

I'd treat it like any other sort of road blockage, such as a lorry shed it's load or a bridge collapse and depending on the status of the patient I'd seek an alternative route, reroute to another hospital or keep the patient stable until I can get aeromedical support from either the defence forces helicopter 112 or the coastguard.

Jesus H Christ.

If people, any people, whether protesting or otherwise, haven't the decency or humanity to move aside for an emergency vehicle, then I would not hesitate in allowing the Gardai to use whatever force necessary to move said people.

inisboffin

PCeeeee wrote: »

Would you mind a question inisboffin, do you feel that a hypothetical group of protesters blocking an ambulance on a public road should be moved physically if they fail to comply with a request to move?

Already answered. You seem to have a very different idea of enforcement to me. And again this has all moved away from the calls for individual violence or targeting a large group of people. It isn't day or night and of course you can see I agree with part of your point but not the rest.

PCeeeee

inisboffin wrote: »

Already answered. You seem to have a very different idea of enforcement to me. And again this has all moved away from the calls for individual violence or targeting a large group of people. It isn't day or night and of course you can see I agree with part of your point but not the rest.

My idea of enforcement is where we compel people to obey the law. In the absence of compliance we 'hurt' them by depriving them of their liberty or their cash.

If they resist physically then then they are restrained. In the course of this it may be necessary to physically hurt them to sucessfully restrain or protect a Guard or member of the public. Hurt in this case means violence up to and including death.

It may be different to your idea of enforcement but it how enforcement works. Otherwise it's not enforcement, it's requesting. Wow, indeed.

inisboffin

PCeeeee wrote: »

My idea of enforcement is where we compel people to obey the law. In the absence of compliance we 'hurt' them by depriving them of their liberty or their cash.

When you need to put a quote around the word to redefine it, that speaks for itself.

PCeeeee

inisboffin wrote: »

When you need to put a quote around the word to redefine it, that speaks for itself.

Yeah

PCeeeee

flazio wrote: »

I'd treat it like any other sort of road blockage, such as a lorry shed it's load or a bridge collapse and depending on the status of the patient I'd seek an alternative route, reroute to another hospital or keep the patient stable until I can get aeromedical support from either the defence forces helicopter 112 or the coastguard.

So you're prepared to put the patient at risk to allow an illegal protest to continue? Can you explain why you do not have clearing the road using physcial force by state functions as an option?

_Whimsical_

Discodog wrote: »

Unfortunately if people are continually allowed to break the law it will create discrimination.

If there are sections of society that the law turns a blind eye to it is institutional discrimination to start with, and nothing positive flows from that.

It's the clearest message possible that your society has deemed you incapable of the most basic cognitive abilities required to be part of "us". It's not a respect for your culture, it's just despair at your inability.

There is nothing good to emerge from a situation where some people are stashed to the side creating havoc and then wondering why they're shunned. At this point I think if the powers that be came down hard on lawlessness within their community it would be so much better for everyone including travellers. There are some who absolutely hate the criminal aspect of the life they're born into but they're trapped by the base instincts of those in their community who won't believe any norms should be expected of them, but also a wider society afraid to question that. It must be intollerable for those people.

flazio

PCeeeee wrote: »

So you're prepared to put the patient at risk to allow an illegal protest to continue? Can you explain why you do not have clearing the road using physcial force by state functions as an option?

Because physical force would mean a risk of more casualties and more ambulances needed. Plus, if as you say, these travellers are carrying the parasite, that exposes more front line emergency workers to the disease, putting them out of action.

MaxFlower

Discodog wrote: »

Are the checkpoints still there ? No sign last night or this morning on Google.

None this morning at 8.30am.

flazio wrote: »

I'd treat it like any other sort of road blockage, such as a lorry shed it's load or a bridge collapse and depending on the status of the patient I'd seek an alternative route, reroute to another hospital or keep the patient stable until I can get aeromedical support from either the defence forces helicopter 112 or the coastguard.

That's an awful lot inconvenience and cost, not to mention threat to life, simply because a group of people haven't the humanity to take 2 steps to the left to let the ambulance go by.

It tells me everything I need to know about their attitude towards society and and how society should respond to them.

fergiesfolly

flazio wrote: »

Because physical force would mean a risk of more casualties and more ambulances needed. Plus, if as you say, these travellers are carrying the parasite, that exposes more front line emergency workers to the disease, putting them out of action.

In that scenario, I wonder what you're reaction would be if settled people peacefully protested by blocking the road and refused to let an ambulance through for an injured traveller???

PCeeeee

flazio wrote: »

Because physical force would mean a risk of more casualties and more ambulances needed. Plus, if as you say, these travellers are carrying the parasite, that exposes more front line emergency workers to the disease, putting them out of action.

In your view is it worth attempting to arrest anyone who might resist. Given the obvious risk. Are we not better to ignore crimes entirely?

Discodog

Galway Bay fm newsroom – Galway Traveller Movement has issued an apology in relation to a protest which took place at Carrowbrowne Halting Site over Covid-19 checkpoints.

The protest involved a blockade of men on the Headford Road which local Councillor James Charity says delayed an ambulance and frontline healthcare staff from making their way to their destinations.

Shortly after 10pm on Monday night, a blockade involving a large group of men took place outside Carrowbrowne Halting Site in protest against Garda checkpoints on the N84 at Ballindooley and Cloonboo.

In a statement to Galway Bay fm news, Galway Traveller Movement apologised for the actions of the group involved and assured that the majority of the Travelling community is doing their best to fight coronavirus.

It says a minority group living at Carrowbrowne Halting Site staged the protest as they felt they were being directly targeted by the Garda checkpoints – which are being carried out across the county to ensure movement restrictions and social distancing measures are being adhered to.

However, Galway Traveller Movement says it has been in contact with An Garda Síochána which assured that the checkpoints were part of a city-wide approach to combat the spread of coronavirus.

The organisation continued to say it regrets that the incident took place and it has identified spokespersons at the Headford Road site who will work to ensure that the community and the Gardái work together to promote public safety.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/galway-traveller-movement-issues-apology-after-carrowbrowne-protest-over-covid-19-checkpoints/

_Whimsical_

Thats heartening on a lot of fronts, really good news.

Discodog

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Thats heartening on a lot of fronts, really good news.

I don't share your optimism that all the anti social & criminal behaviour will stop. They always say that it's a minority but the majority never step up.

Psychlops

Discodog wrote: »

In a statement to Galway Bay fm news, Galway Traveller Movement apologised for the actions of the group involved

So the actual people that did the protesting didnt apologise.

cfeeneyinterior

Psychlops wrote: »

So the actual people that did the protesting didnt apologise.

They might come up on this site and do a public apology.... Ya never know https://www.tiktok.com/@knackersnews

Psychlops

Psychlops wrote: »

So the actual people that did the protesting didnt apologise.

What would that look like to you?

A representative for the group gave an apology.

Are you looking for them to do 100 lines each saying "I will not block the road again"?

jammiedodgers

Deleted User wrote: »

What would that look like to you?

A representative for the group gave an apology.

Are you looking for them to do 100 lines each saying "I will not block the road again"?

I don't think anyone will be asking them to write 100 lines

_Whimsical_

Discodog wrote: »

I don't share your optimism that all the anti social & criminal behaviour will stop. They always say that it's a minority but the majority never step up.

Well it's rare to see an official public push back from their own community on any issue. It's at least a start to see them demand for certain standards to be adhered too. I would consider it at least a move in a positive direction. Hopefully it'll be the start of more.

flazio

fergiesfolly wrote: »

In that scenario, I wonder what you're reaction would be if settled people peacefully protested by blocking the road and refused to let an ambulance through for an injured traveller???

Again strip the situation to its simplest consequences. Road blocked, does not matter if its a protest, flood, illegal street party, overturned truck, whatever. The road is blocked. Divert, reroute or seek alternative means of transport. Ambulance service doesn't care about the politics of the situation. They care about the patient in the back regardless of who they are. As for risks involved, there's a lot that can be done for people in a pre hospital environment by the likes of Advanced Paramedics, West Doc etc that give people a fighting chance before they set foot on hospital premises.
Travellers frustrate me, they frustrate me a lot. I've been a volunteer at the Ballinasloe Horse Fair for about 20 years now and I hate it. But I know I'm better then them and do my best to just stay away from them as much as possible. Most of the time, their activities have no long lasting direct impact on my life. It's not my responsibility to worry for all society. Just on myself.

Discodog

flazio wrote: »

Again strip the situation to its simplest consequences. Road blocked, does not matter if its a protest, flood, illegal street party, overturned truck, whatever. The road is blocked. Divert, reroute or seek alternative means of transport. Ambulance service doesn't care about the politics of the situation. They care about the patient in the back regardless of who they are. As for risks involved, there's a lot that can be done for people in a pre hospital environment by the likes of Advanced Paramedics, West Doc etc that give people a fighting chance before they set foot on hospital premises.
Travellers frustrate me, they frustrate me a lot. I've been a volunteer at the Ballinasloe Horse Fair for about 20 years now and I hate it. But I know I'm better then them and do my best to just stay away from them as much as possible. Most of the time, their activities have no long lasting direct impact on my life. It's not my responsibility to worry for all society. Just on myself.

If some people didn't worry there would of been horses dead from starvation or drowning.

PCeeeee

flazio wrote: »

Again strip the situation to its simplest consequences. Road blocked, does not matter if its a protest, flood, illegal street party, overturned truck, whatever. The road is blocked. Divert, reroute or seek alternative means of transport. Ambulance service doesn't care about the politics of the situation. They care about the patient in the back regardless of who they are. As for risks involved, there's a lot that can be done for people in a pre hospital environment by the likes of Advanced Paramedics, West Doc etc that give people a fighting chance before they set foot on hospital premises.
Travellers frustrate me, they frustrate me a lot. I've been a volunteer at the Ballinasloe Horse Fair for about 20 years now and I hate it. But I know I'm better then them and do my best to just stay away from them as much as possible. Most of the time, their activities have no long lasting direct impact on my life. It's not my responsibility to worry for all society. Just on myself.

I am Flazio. Road blocked. Unblock it.

To me this is nothing to do with travellers. If it's young Fine Gael or the Hell's Angel's that's standing in front of an ambulance then we should remove them. By any means. This is our shared home. There can't be different rules for people who intimidate us otherwise the state itself fails. It's a bit Leviathan but fks sake there are principles.

Psychlops

Deleted User wrote: »

What would that look like to you?

A representative for the group gave an apology.

Are you looking for them to do 100 lines each saying "I will not block the road again"?

If you did something wrong would you apologise instead of having a rep do it for you?