Derogation to the Wildlife Act 2020-21

cookimonster

The Derogation for 20/21 is technically out.....

The Minister has signed a State-wide Declaration for the 12 month period from 1st May 2020 to 30th April 2021. A separate countrywide Declaration was signed in respect of air safety. PDF versions of these Declarations are also published on the website.

But if you read the article the information re dates and durations etc are last years and if you click the links they led you to last years paperwork..... hmmm!

Lets hope all is well and this is only a genuine publishing feck up!!!


Any one seen Chris Packham knocking around the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht recently.

Vegeta

Did the same thing happen last time, this is tickling the ol' memory a bit?

mcbain087

I received a reply from npws last week after requesting info on EU Bird Directive and whilst not officially signed it was apparently the template for the new derogation. Main difference for me was no woodpigeon shooting between 1st June and 1st Sept 2020. Hopefully they will revert to last years dates.

mcbain087

https://www.npws.ie/legislation/irish-law/eu-birds-directive-derogations
The new link is above and there has been changes to last year so be aware as certain licences may need to be applied for to control vermin or for crop protection.

cookimonster

So they have basically banned pigeon shooting over the summer months. For Fu#k Sake!!
So it will have to be sec42 I presume then for farmers controling pigeons at that time of the year!!!!

Any feed back on this outcome!!

mcbain087

Yes cookiemonster, doesn't make any sense.
I am awaiting a further response from npws and the minister as they haven't signed the declaration so it technically isn't official.
There is a thread on hunting eire on Facebook about this at the moment and I will update when I receive info from npws.
It is unlikely that sec 42 will be issued in most cases as landowners must prove other methods were tried, then there is a visit to land involved, then someone is nominated to carry out pest / vermin control.
After all of this is carried out, the licence is issued for a set period. Most times it takes too long and opportunity is lost. I know of a farmer who started the process but soon gave up.

cookimonster

Thanks for that.
I've contacted the NARGC and a few of the farmers I shoot for.
Ridiculous rationale, heavily leaden grain crops, planting etc etc all happening in the latter half of the period. They can't call in breeding, nesting as a excuse as we are seeing more clutches throughout the year.

cookimonster

The offending piece and the signature....

mcbain087

Oh dear, that's crap

J.R.

Does anybody have any idea why June, July & August were removed - stopping shooting?

Was there any reason given for it?

Was any group lobbying for it?

It doesn't make one ounce of sense - they are the three months where the most severe attacks usually take place.

mcbain087

I did ask in my last mail to the minister if they had any links to how the decision was made and why it was for the most damaging period for crops!
There was a request for submissions and info to be sent before 10th Jan so maybe numbers were down or threat to crops was lessened, either way I think its ridiculous.
Feral pigeons are open all year and they left the threat to airspace open all year for woodpigeon???
If I get a reply, I'll update situation.

Zxthinger

Who the minister for this area now? Has the baton changed hands?

You need to request an FOI detailing the rational and cause behind this change to the standing practice.

I'm blaming Chris Packem.

Lads need to be out telling farmers that the outgoing clowns have apparently dealt a final blow to the sport on their way out the door.

Madiggan is out now. Wrote to her office nearly 4 times and got no response on any issue except for an acknowledgment of receipt.. very disappointing

This type of sudden change in rules with no reasons given needs to be stamped out. These fecks are meant to be representing us yet 'time and again' I seen them sneaking in their own agendas and private campaigns.
I'll meet her yet and I'll tell her off..

Zxthinger

Crows and other birds seem the same as other years.

mcbain087

The minister is Josepha Madigan as signed at bottom on the derogation.
For all corvid dates go on to the npws.ie site and look at the state wide declaration.

The pigeon man

Yes it seems like someone has their own agenda to push with the new derogation.

For air safety birds with an at risk conservation status can be shot are trapped at anytime.

But when it comes to a farmer protecting his livelihood, he can't shoot pigeons when they're causing the most damage to his crops.

Probably best apply for for a section 42 license now so you can continue to shoot.

cookimonster

You can't apply for a sec42, its the farmer that does that. You may assist them in the application but it is themselves that needs to follow up on it or deal with on site inspections and assessments.
You must also insure that all individuals who intend to shoot pigeons are named on the application. Only persons name on the Sec42 as issued by the Dept are allowed to shoot under thst licence.

As I said before an unwieldy and over complicated process for this particular instances. For deer and goose they ate straight forward but I could see this been messy unless the Dept give a standard brief for all grain farmers.

mcbain087

If anyone is interested in finding out why this has happened or to make inquiries about the current derogation licence, contact the following person who looks after the licensing unit.
Gerry.Leckey@chg.gov.ie

cookimonster

I received an email from the NARGC and they are looking into the change to the derogation.

mcbain087

This is one of the exclusions on this years derogation as listed on the NPWS.ie website.

"The exclusion of the Wood Pigeon from the State-wide Declaration in respect of one criteria (the prevention of damage to arable crops) for the period 1 June to 31 August 2020."

It would be good to get a definitive answer before end of May.

The pigeon man

cookimonster wrote: »

You can't apply for a sec42, its the farmer that does that. You may assist them in the application but it is themselves that needs to follow up on it or deal with on site inspections and assessments.
You must also insure that all individuals who intend to shoot pigeons are named on the application. Only persons name on the Sec42 as issued by the Dept are allowed to shoot under thst licence.

As I said before an unwieldy and over complicated process for this particular instances. For deer and goose they ate straight forward but I could see this been messy unless the Dept give a standard brief for all grain farmers.

Yes I agree it takes a bit of effort to apply for a section 42. Anyone duly authorised by the landowner can apply for the permission on their behalf. Yes you must list nominated stalkers but that's not very hard.

Also I know the permission can be issued without an onsite visit. Photographing evidence sufficed for me in the past.

cookimonster

mcbain087 wrote: »

This is one of the exclusions on this years derogation as listed on the NPWS.ie website.

"The exclusion of the Wood Pigeon from the State-wide Declaration in respect of one criteria (the prevention of damage to arable crops) for the period 1 June to 31 August 2020."

It would be good to get a definitive answer before end of May.

There's no clarification, it is what it is no shooting wood pigeon for crop protection over those months.

mcbain087

It would be nice to see their reasoning for the decision.
If there were any reports or statistics to show a decline or less of a threat, I personally would be interested in reading them.
Anyway cant see it being changed but it sets a precedent for the future and the effect on arable farming, if drastic changes can be made without justifiable reason then crop protection, hunting and shooting in general are under pressure and threatened.

Zxthinger

The only way to deal with government is to bog them down at there own game.. get you TD to hound her dept, wade in an request an FOI detailing all corrispondance relating to the decision then send another FOI later asking fir the minutes if all meeting detailed in the FOI
WRITE DIRECTLY and demand answers.
Once the PC troops start to feel the burn the word will pass up the ranks.
If there's no back lash or outcry then they win. I'm doing exams at the min but as soon as I'm finished she going hear from me, my local Tds are all going know me.
Could local councillors bring questions to the minister? I suppose so! The thing is this.. these depts have a policy of not responding to general citizens but they you can bet that they respond sharply to other government personnel daily lively..
The lines are drawn.. plague the backsides off them.. keep asking for the same data in different ways through different channels and never let up. At you TD to write to the minister as they have to write back, then get the same TD to email her. These TD want to get yer vote so they'll ask the questions to show you that they care but really they don't give a rats arse about you. The ring is that the ministers staff can't ignore official people with proper questions.

Birdnuts

mcbain087 wrote: »

If anyone is interested in finding out why this has happened or to make inquiries about the current derogation licence, contact the following person who looks after the licensing unit.
Gerry.Leckey@chg.gov.ie

Thanx for that - I had intended to fire off a few emails today to the NPWS and the minister on this matter(and others!!). At a time when the NPWS appear to be unwilling or unable to deal with serious wildlife crimes in certain parts of the country, for them to be coming out with this nonsense in terms of a totally unjustified hindrance to pigeon control at peak harvesting times is bizarre and illogical in the extreme. I will share with folks here any relevant response I get(assuming I get one!!)

Zxthinger

Birdnuts wrote: »

Thanx for that - I had intended to fire off a few emails today to the NPWS and the minister on this matter(and others!!). At a time when the NPWS appear to be unwilling or unable to deal with serious wildlife crimes in certain parts of the country, for them to be coming out with this nonsense in terms of a totally unjustified hindrance to pigeon control at peak harvesting times is bizarre and illogical in the extreme. I will share with folks here any relevant response I get(assuming I get one!!)

Very good point... ultimately they're expect firearms owners to go with the rules.
So they need to be swapped with that duty. Every farmer in the land needs to apply for a section 42. Hunters need to help farmers and do the paper work form them. Every fellow that has ever asked you to shoot over his fields needs to be inside..

mcbain087

This is the reply from NPWS ;

Further to your email below to John Fitzgerald, the new signed Declaration is now published on the NPWS website – link below.  The woodpigeon is included on the Declaration to prevent damage to crops except for the June to August period  as our advice is that there is limited evidence to suggest that woodpigeon cause serious damage to crops during the summer period.   Should woodpigeon be seen to cause damage to crops during this period, landowners can apply for Section 42 permits under the Wildlife Acts.
Regards
Gerry

SureHowBad

mcbain087 wrote: »

This is the reply from NPWS ;

Further to your email below to John Fitzgerald, the new signed Declaration is now published on the NPWS website – link below. The woodpigeon is included on the Declaration to prevent damage to crops except for the June to August period as our advice is that there is limited evidence to suggest that woodpigeon cause serious damage to crops during the summer period. Should woodpigeon be seen to cause damage to crops during this period, landowners can apply for Section 42 permits under the Wildlife Acts.
Regards
Gerry

That's bull**** of the highest order..... where is the evidence to suddenly support the change. The vast majority of pigeon control is done in the months of July and August as the winter crops lodge before harvesting.

Chiparus

A lot of French shooters come over in August to shoot pigeons down my area.

slipperyox

Who was the adviser?
What research was done to come to the conclusion?
Why was this years decision different to last years?

someone made a typo I'd say, and afraid to admit it:)

cookimonster

This smacks of desk top studies with individuals not even crossing a farm gate.

Have these people never walked a field of grain during theses months where hundreds of birds will lift out tram lines, laid crop etc, etc. Good God how do they expect a sec42 to be applied for, processed and acted up in double quick time to prevent birds attacking a crop that has been laid flat due to heavy rainfall, stormy conditions.

Why are most of us not shooting at this stage of the growth?, why?, because there's no real threat in another month or two then we will get the calls.

This beggers belief.

cookimonster

Chiparus wrote: »

A lot of French shooters come over in August to shoot pigeons down my area.

Bad enough trying to figure out Covid19 restrictions this will certainly slam the door in thier faces....

... this has certainly knocked the wind out of my sails. For the past serveral years I plan work and organise leave around August to shoot the grey ballerinas of the sky.

yubabill

Feckers taking advantage of the lockdown to implement their "death by a thousand cuts"

Sean Fleming, Sean O'Fearghail, Marian Harkin, Matt Carthy (were MEP's but both TD's now) and Martin Heydon are some of the TD's who have helped us in the past.

We need NARGC and individuals to press the issue (NARGC on its own not enough, mostly concerned with game).

I'll bang off an email when I get the chance soon.

slipperyox

yubabill wrote: »

Feckers taking advantage of the lockdown to implement their "death by a thousand cuts"

Sean Fleming, Sean O'Fearghail, Marian Harkin, Matt Carthy (were MEP's but both TD's now) and Martin Heydon are some of the TD's who have helped us in the past.

We need NARGC and individuals to press the issue (NARGC on its own not enough, mostly concerned with game).

I'll bang off an email when I get the chance soon.

IFA

mcbain087

Latest from NARGC;

Wood pigeon control
NARGC press release: 14/05/2020

At the stroke of a pen Minister Josepha Madigan has removed from the tillage farmer the most effective form of crop protection from wood pigeon damage.
From May 31St this year until September 1st - wood pigeons cannot be controlled by means of shooting, the only really effective way.
When this decision was queried by the NARGC, the NPWS responded that the decision was based on professional objective scientific advice
We now invite the NPWS to publish this advice in full along with the sources of the said advice.
This change to the long established procedure is without any consultation with the people who have carried out this control for generations.
The conservation status of the wood pigeon is not threatened in any way.
Tillage farmers have enough to contend with; rain, wind, heat or cold, price and costs without losing yield to hordes of hungry pigeons.
The minister and the Parks and wildlife department seem far removed from the problems of the Irish farmer.
We question what or who is driving this decision!
We call upon the minister to immediately rescind this change to the established derogation that has worked well all down the years.

berettaman

mcbain087 wrote: »

Latest from NARGC;

Wood pigeon control
NARGC press release: 14/05/2020

At the stroke of a pen Minister Josepha Madigan has removed from the tillage farmer the most effective form of crop protection from wood pigeon damage.
From May 31St this year until September 1st - wood pigeons cannot be controlled by means of shooting, the only really effective way.
When this decision was queried by the NARGC, the NPWS responded that the decision was based on professional objective scientific advice
We now invite the NPWS to publish this advice in full along with the sources of the said advice.
This change to the long established procedure is without any consultation with the people who have carried out this control for generations.
The conservation status of the wood pigeon is not threatened in any way.
Tillage farmers have enough to contend with; rain, wind, heat or cold, price and costs without losing yield to hordes of hungry pigeons.
The minister and the Parks and wildlife department seem far removed from the problems of the Irish farmer.
We question what or who is driving this decision!
We call upon the minister to immediately rescind this change to the established derogation that has worked well all down the years.

I heard this evening that NARGC and IFA are going to tackle this together. It is the only logical way.

The change was so absurd that it looked like an error.

Looks like someone is trying to curry favour with the greens.

Birdnuts

mcbain087 wrote: »

This is the reply from NPWS ;

Further to your email below to John Fitzgerald, the new signed Declaration is now published on the NPWS website – link below.  The woodpigeon is included on the Declaration to prevent damage to crops except for the June to August period  as our advice is that there is limited evidence to suggest that woodpigeon cause serious damage to crops during the summer period.   Should woodpigeon be seen to cause damage to crops during this period, landowners can apply for Section 42 permits under the Wildlife Acts.
Regards
Gerry

That is simply astonishing - WTF is giving them this "advice"?? Greta Thunberger??:rolleyes:

PS: At least you got a reply, so far all I've got is an "out of office" message:mad:

mcbain087

I have been chasing answers for over 2 weeks at this point, starting with inquiring as to when derogation for current year would be released right up to this point.
In fairness I have received a few messages from npws even if it was only to acknowledge my emails but as most people are working remotely I was expecting some delays.
After receiving the reply I posted earlier, I then requested the meeting details / notes and any info on who gave or was asked to give any advice that led to this decision being made and received an out of office/ working remotely message.
I am waiting for a reply.

Grizzly 45

Your problems freinds& neighbours is in BRUSSELS,yet again! The reason those months are used is simply this,the woodie is rearing the chicks in those months as they are still nestbound.So because the woodie is a compartively rare bird in Europe,the beuracratic think is the must be rare ALL over the EU.Same as crows are on the mainland.So there fore they must have prortection to raer their young.Again,MORE legislation that Ireland has been late to ratify from the EU Soviet,and was proably caught up on, during the lead ban talks. We are being brushed off here with Scientific advice BS,in th hope we will go away. so I'd suggest a mass mailing demanding under freedom of information act the following;
1] What scientific evidence is the dept basing this on?
2]Is this because of the EU NATURA directive ,making wood piegon a semi game bird based on EU legislation?
3] What factual scientific information recived by the dept has prompted this change of action?
5] What alternative methods to shooting does the dept suggest to prevent crop depredation?

Grizzly 45

slipperyox wrote: »

IFA

I'm Fast Asleep![When it comes to firearms matters!]

Got him!

'shooting with rifle or shotgun' Is this not a contradiction to the 1976 WILDLIFE ACT which states that it is an offense to shoot any protected bird with a rifle?

Zxthinger

it's great timing from clowns too. We just going to be dealing with a fizzing pandemic and now farmers have to apply for section 42 that's has to have the crop protection agent nominated on what is a non transferable system.

Well done to the minister and the Secretary-general in that dept must also be a class act too.

cookimonster

Got him! wrote: »

'shooting with rifle or shotgun' Is this not a contradiction to the 1976 WILDLIFE ACT which states that it is an offense to shoot any protected bird with a rifle?

It is by its very nature and meaning a derogation to the law.

derogation

an exemption from or relaxation of a rule or law.

"countries assuming a derogation from EC law"

It is obvious from reading through social media that many of us actually shooting crows and pigeons have no idea as to the law or regulations. It is why I have been downloading a hard copy of the derogation in the past and keeping it with me while out decoying etc etc , incase joe or josephine dogooder has a melt down.

Just to clear this up, because there is are actual train wrecks of conversations on going on other social media platforms, here best to my knowledge are a few facts.

1. All wild birds are protected full stop - EU Bird directive.

2. Reared birds or wild game birds inculding pigeon can be hunted during particular seasons or under licence.

3. Under the EU directive each member state may enact a derogation in respect to bird species that may cause damage or destruction to crops, livestock, food / feed stores, wild fauna, reared pened birds, vector of disease.

4. The derogation lays down, species, reason for control, annual periods of control, method of control.

5. The derogation does not give everyone cart blanche to hunt birds you still must act with in the terms of the document. If you notice that feral pigeon is still on the derogation for the year but only in relation to threat to public heath, so decoying them or just flight shooting them over crops is not legal.

6. YES you can shoot over stubble as part of crop protection, this was proven through several court case between individuals and the NPWS and is backed by the NARGC.

7. As has been suggested elsewhere, there has been no change to legislation, there is no need for Dail approval for any changes etc.The annual derogation has to be signed every year by the Minister and prior to that there is a review or consultation process before its release. Serveral years back seagulls were added to the derogation for one particular location and that was that, no big fuss.

This is not a case of over stepping thier power or crushing the common man, the law is already there to prevent us shooting birds this is ( apologies for breaking protocols)...

....AN EXERCISE IN DOWN RIGHT STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE BY INDIVIDUALS WHO SHOULD BY THE VIRTUE OF THIER RESPONSIBILITIES AND POSTION KNOW BETTER!.

and what we don't need now, not aimed at anyone here, are people from within our own ranks, ie hunters, or reputedly so coming out and 'welcoming this news' because there are far too many birds shot, its not crop protection when its over stubble, ohh forgein hunting tourists are coming in'. For feck sake makes me sick when you get so called hunters stirring the pot. This guys are either trolls in camo, wannabe's walther mitti type hunters or jealous lazy fecks who won't get off thier holes to hunt or find permissions.

Rant over...

berettaman

yubabill wrote: »

Feckers taking advantage of the lockdown to implement their "death by a thousand cuts"

Sean Fleming, Sean O'Fearghail, Marian Harkin, Matt Carthy (were MEP's but both TD's now) and Martin Heydon are some of the TD's who have helped us in the past.

We need NARGC and individuals to press the issue (NARGC on its own not enough, mostly concerned with game).

I'll bang off an email when I get the chance soon.

NARGC spent most of yesterday working on this issue.


They are not just interested in game, that is for sure.


Everyone that shoots pigeons for a farmer needs to contact their TD asap.

berettaman

Got him! wrote: »

'shooting with rifle or shotgun' Is this not a contradiction to the 1976 WILDLIFE ACT which states that it is an offense to shoot any protected bird with a rifle?

Saw that too. Wasn't going to mention it.;):D

yubabill

cookimonster wrote: »

It is by its very nature and meaning a derogation to the law.



It is obvious from reading through social media that many of us actually shooting crows and pigeons have no idea as to the law or regulations. It is why I have been downloading a hard copy of the derogation in the past and keeping it with me while out decoying etc etc , incase joe or josephine dogooder has a melt down.

Just to clear this up, because there is are actual train wrecks of conversations on going on other social media platforms, here best to my knowledge are a few facts.

1. All wild birds are protected full stop - EU Bird directive.

2. Reared birds or wild game birds inculding pigeon can be hunted during particular seasons or under licence.

3. Under the EU directive each member state may enact a derogation in respect to bird species that may cause damage or destruction to crops, livestock, food / feed stores, wild fauna, reared pened birds, vector of disease.

4. The derogation lays down, species, reason for control, annual periods of control, method of control.

5. The derogation does not give everyone cart blanche to hunt birds you still must act with in the terms of the document. If you notice that feral pigeon is still on the derogation for the year but only in relation to threat to public heath, so decoying them or just flight shooting them over crops is not legal.

6. YES you can shoot over stubble as part of crop protection, this was proven through several court case between individuals and the NPWS and is backed by the NARGC.

7. As has been suggested elsewhere, there has been no change to legislation, there is no need for Dail approval for any changes etc.The annual derogation has to be signed every year by the Minister and prior to that there is a review or consultation process before its release. Serveral years back seagulls were added to the derogation for one particular location and that was that, no big fuss.

This is not a case of over stepping thier power or crushing the common man, the law is already there to prevent us shooting birds this is ( apologies for breaking protocols)...

....AN EXERCISE IN DOWN RIGHT STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE BY INDIVIDUALS WHO SHOULD BY THE VIRTUE OF THIER RESPONSIBILITIES AND POSTION KNOW BETTER!.

and what we don't need now, not aimed at anyone here, are people from within our own ranks, ie hunters, or reputedly so coming out and 'welcoming this news' because there are far too many birds shot, its not crop protection when its over stubble, ohh forgein hunting tourists are coming in'. For feck sake makes me sick when you get so called hunters stirring the pot. This guys are either trolls in camo, wannabe's walther mitti type hunters or jealous lazy fecks who won't get off thier holes to hunt or find permissions.

Rant over...

OK, so NPWs are saying there is little evidence that wood pigeon cause significant crop damage around harvest time or so.

And they need to carry out a review or consultation wrt derogation.

So it must have been a review, because there doesn't seem to have been a consultation (with shooters, anyway).

We need to question that review through our reps/TD's.

We need to know (through our reps/TD's) the scientific study/studies the new derogation is based on and whether it/they are relevant to the Irish situation wrt wood pigeon numbers, locations etc. and whether the study/studies had reference to or performed any control for their data/conclusions.

cookimonster

The NPWS are not going to consult with us the hunters unless its in reference to bag numbers and if the Woodcock survey is anything to go by the lack of take up by hunters is going to back fire on them, or so I'm led to believe. The only ones in consolation, I would say, are the farmers and the wild life experts, who ever they may be. We are the last chain in the link.

If my memory serves me right, technicaly the farmer is ment to inform the local wildlife ranger of his intentions to have the birds shot. Some may poo hoo this as impractical, unrealistic etc etc but regardless if you have put your foot wrong then you are in trouble. Is it your hide you want nailed to the door to set an example no matter how trivial it may be?

cookimonster

FIeld Sports Channel Ireland

https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/ireland-imposes-pigeon-season/amp/

berettaman

Hi Lads,


This is like what happened in the UK last year with wild justice and Natural England.


Don't bother taking your time to ring NARGC head office and give out to them about this. They were not consulted and have been tackling this at the highest levels with the help of the farming organisations. While calls are always appreciated it deflects from the war effort.


DO ring or email your local TD, make sure they know what is happening.

This is a Dublin minister signing off on something that she has been badly advised on.

NPWS think that they can pull this crap and shooters will blame each other and their reps and not focus on the faceless tools basing decisions on scientific evidence they cannot produce.

Let them know that this change it is not acceptable.

NO They did not consult any hunting organisation to my knowledge before making this change.

YES, I know the NARGC made submissions during the consultation process.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/tds/

Go find your TDs and let them know how you feel.;)

Uinseann_16

My local TDs have been emailed
As for Cookimonsters small rant earlier ill have to echo it for one moment
As a younger shooter/hunter i think its an absolute disgrace the behaviour of certain elements and individuals in this community who would gladly see others sink so they may stay content,A house divided against itself cannot stand. Theres much more of the same along the way we all need to do our bit and not give an inch and email our representatives asking for more accountability.

Grizzly 45

Done,both local and senator.

I think however folks we might need to do a written word campaign too.Emails are easily ignored. What would you think of a downloadable printable "postcard" campaign addressed to Mrs Madigan in her dept? Snail mail has to be deliverd no matter what.

The German Rifle Assoc did it last Nov about th mag ban,and it surprised the staff of the Ministers office on the sudden influx of mail that they had to deal with.Also,as this is going to a govt dept.You dont even have to stamp it.Its Freepost!

Either that or we have to blizzard the NPWS and dept email addys with our complaint.

Zxthinger

Every year there some thing being eroded or removed or banned or grandfathered. Wrong color, too long, to short or its to big.. Would ye all please just Bugger off/.. Every year another minstrel comes along and wants to do his/her bit..

Some time I wish I was in to golf or football. It seems to be that "My sport" has no importance in society. The fact that I have invested considerable time, effort and money in a sport that is in a truth a necessity in the rural environment seems to mean very little..

I'm form Dublin and this type of action from a Dublin based Minister makes mad.. I've met some of these minister and Councillors throughout the years and some are ok but they follow the crowd, the look for the vote. They rather get a bin on a street corner than house a family because a bin gets 100's of votes..

We need to rise up and show them that we are hundreds, if not thousands of votes and we want action and we will be recognized and acknowledged..

Rant over but I go along with action ACTION and grizzlys plan is good.. Real letters aren't as easily ignored so writing..