2020 GUI Cups & Shields

Walter Alright

prawnsambo wrote: »

Can they? Where?

You can look at anyone’s 20 most recent scores from your club. On the golf Ireland app, search their names and click in. Their graph will be displayed.

PARlance

Walter Alright wrote: »

You can look at anyone’s 20 most recent scores from your club. On the golf Ireland app, search their names and click in. Their graph will be displayed.

It's not the most user friendly set-up but it works. For anyone trying it on the app, go to player search on the main menu, then type the players surname (you'll need to tap into the green section to prompt this)... When you've input the name, don't press enter, just give it a second or two for the names to appear below and you can click into a player and their previous rounds.

You need a players GUI to search for players outside your club.

prawnsambo

PARlance wrote: »

It's not the most user friendly set-up but it works. For anyone trying it on the app, go to player search on the main menu, then type the players surname (you'll need to tap into the green section to prompt this)... When you've input the name, don't press enter, just give it a second or two for the names to appear below and you can click into a player and their previous rounds.

You need a players GUI to search for players outside your club.

Yes. But you can't see their history. Just their current index.

NedBagg

Pdoghue wrote: »

Players who play Pierce Purcell or any interclub will have arrived at their handicap by virtue of their best 8 scores out of 20 prior to 1 January. By the time it comes to May or June when the competition starts quite a few players, especially young lads, will be playing to a better level than that. I actually think the interclubs would be better if they had handicap limits based on up to date handicaps. But then I suppose you'd have lads protecting their handicaps to stay on the team.

Regarding the comments about a certain PP team having half the lads on it being single figure players in reality makes a mockery of the whole thing.

yes that can happen but as Wilbur says all players on the same day!!! PP also has an age limit of 18.. which should reduce the instances of this happening...Absolutely there will be some who play better than their handicaps but then their handicaps should reflect that and you would think they would not be eligible for the following year... interesting to see how many of the 2020 winning squad will be on this years team... by the way it will get worse with this new handicap system which is wide open for two guys to get together and inflate their handicap

prawnsambo

Walter Alright wrote: »

You can look at anyone’s 20 most recent scores from your club. On the golf Ireland app, search their names and click in. Their graph will be displayed.

I wasn't asking about players in my own club. It was about the players in that PP team.

PARlance

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yes. But you can't see their history. Just their current index.

For non-club members?

I haven't checked anyone outside my own club but you can see the history of fellow club members.

prawnsambo

PARlance wrote: »

For non-club members?

I haven't checked anyone outside my own club but you can see the history of fellow club members.

Yes, You can only see details from your own club.

Beaulieu

From Brian Keogh's report of PP winners in the Indo

https://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/tee-to-green/spanish-point-take-no-prisoners-in-pierce-purcell-40547592.html

The key quote I think is
"Captain Tom added: “Five of the team that won in 2013 and 2014 are still there, so there are nine new players on this team today, which is a fantastic achievement for a nine-hole club out off Spanish Point with limited resources but a huge heart".

Truly unbelieveable Jeff..truly unbelievable.

opinionated3

Beaulieu wrote: »

From Brian Keogh's report of PP winners in the Indo

https://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/tee-to-green/spanish-point-take-no-prisoners-in-pierce-purcell-40547592.html

The key quote I think is
"Captain Tom added: “Five of the team that won in 2013 and 2014 are still there, so there are nine new players on this team today, which is a fantastic achievement for a nine-hole club out off Spanish Point with limited resources but a huge heart".

Truly unbelieveable Jeff..truly unbelievable.

Not too mention the irony of a Garda participating in this charade!

Ollieboy

Beaulieu wrote: »

From Brian Keogh's report of PP winners in the Indo

https://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/tee-to-green/spanish-point-take-no-prisoners-in-pierce-purcell-40547592.html

The key quote I think is
"Captain Tom added: “Five of the team that won in 2013 and 2014 are still there, so there are nine new players on this team today, which is a fantastic achievement for a nine-hole club out off Spanish Point with limited resources but a huge heart".

Truly unbelieveable Jeff..truly unbelievable.

This just seems so wrong…

And Carton House in so many finals….all about the budget.

tbayers

JB is slightly different to PP as you often come up against a kid who is flying down. Our own team had a 5 and a 10 from previous years handicap and the 10 in question was playing off 5 come the middle of the JB. That, I can accept.

However, coming up against players in PP that are clearly "minding" their handicaps is very tough to take. They must have miserable time outside of team comps as they must not play any single comps and if they do they pull the handbrake up a lot. If I were to do that I wouldn't enjoy my team winning a team comp. It isn't cheating per se but it is unethical.

Thing is, very hard to find a solution is it not?

opinionated3

tbayers wrote: »

JB is slightly different to PP as you often come up against a kid who is flying down. Our own team had a 5 and a 10 from previous years handicap and the 10 in question was playing off 5 come the middle of the JB. That, I can accept.

However, coming up against players in PP that are clearly "minding" their handicaps is very tough to take. They must have miserable time outside of team comps as they must not play any single comps and if they do they pull the handbrake up a lot. If I were to do that I wouldn't enjoy my team winning a team comp. It isn't cheating per se but it is unethical.

Thing is, very hard to find a solution is it not?

Don't think a solution exists tbh. As a club, they are hated in Clare, because everyone knows the story. It's nothing to do with having a "huge heart in a small club". It's managing the situation for their own benefit, pure and simple Golf is allegedly a game of honour and honesty. It's non existent in that club as far as I can see.

moycullen14

tbayers wrote: »

JB is slightly different to PP as you often come up against a kid who is flying down. Our own team had a 5 and a 10 from previous years handicap and the 10 in question was playing off 5 come the middle of the JB. That, I can accept.

However, coming up against players in PP that are clearly "minding" their handicaps is very tough to take. They must have miserable time outside of team comps as they must not play any single comps and if they do they pull the handbrake up a lot. If I were to do that I wouldn't enjoy my team winning a team comp. It isn't cheating per se but it is unethical.

Thing is, very hard to find a solution is it not?

The monthly medals must be a hoot. 'Winner with a nett score of 126 is ....'

willabur

moycullen14 wrote: »

The monthly medals must be a hoot. 'Winner with a nett score of 126 is ....'

you can imagine the sniggering from the interclub team members,

"look at that fool, trying to win weekend comp"

Poker Face

moycullen14 wrote: »

The monthly medals must be a hoot. 'Winner with a nett score of 126 is ....'

Have looked up a few of their players on Golf Ireland, not one of them has played a competition since golf came back this year. One has only 14 scores on his handicap record since Nov 18.

willabur

Poker Face wrote: »

Have looked up a few of their players on Golf Ireland, not one of them has played a competition since golf came back this year. One has only 14 scores on his handicap record since Nov 18.

that is BLATENT

opinionated3

Poker Face wrote: »

Have looked up a few of their players on Golf Ireland, not one of them has played a competition since golf came back this year. One has only 14 scores on his handicap record since Nov 18.

Omg. And nothing can be done about that?? Obviously targeting this year's PP again.....

tbayers

opinionated3 wrote: »

Omg. And nothing can be done about that?? Obviously targeting this year's PP again.....

Nope, only need 3 qualifying rounds a year I believe. Its a tricky one, push that out to say 10 for example and that will be too much for some. one way to stop some of the crap is to maybe keep your previous handicap if you leave a club. WHS will look after everything else if you have dropped a bit

opinionated3

Apparently the latest Irish golfer podcast is a bit cutting on this year's PP winners😀. Haven't heard it myself but I'm having a look for it

tbayers

tbayers wrote: »

Nope, only need 3 qualifying rounds a year I believe. Its a tricky one, push that out to say 10 for example and that will be too much for some. one way to stop some of the crap is to maybe keep your previous handicap if you leave a club. WHS will look after everything else if you have dropped a bit

Maybe they could change it that you only need the 3 or 4 cards to keep your handicap valid but to play Interclub golf you should have 10 like you say or even 20 so that at least you know there is some relevance to the handicaps people are playing off.

These guys are obviously playing in a lot of fourballs and team events.

ShivasIrons

How do you say something without saying something?


The last 10 winners of the Pierce Purcell have come from Munster. Leinster have twice the number of clubs and Ulster have more players.


In this 10 year period, 2 clubs have won it twice and one club has won it three times. 3 clubs have won it 70% of the time, in a handicap band competition where form can and does fluctuate on a daily and weekly basis.


We have seen some matches won 7/6, 6/5 etc in these finals, some of the finals have seem very one sided. One sided against teams which have won through a number of matches, where the players would be getting better through the year by virtue of playing and practicing more.


It's not possible to be the best 12, 13, 14, 15 etc handicapper in the country for long as if they are the golfer will get cut pretty quickly.


These guys must be the luckiest golfers in the world as they seem that when they play a match they can play well but their form completely deserts them in a handicap qualifying competition. Most other golfers have no idea when they will play well or won't.


What really is a wonderful and fun competition has been destroyed by serial winners. And it really isn't difficult to deal with them, check the handicap record for the year of the win and if they are genuine the handicap would be dropping. If you are winning matches while the handicap is not dropping, use the general play rule and cut these golfers.



Deal with handicap builders ruthlessly and even though there is only a small percentage of them they will become harder to find.

Dbu

opinionated3 wrote: »

Omg. And nothing can be done about that?? Obviously targeting this year's PP again.....

Make cutting mandatory for 4 balls, foursomes and double scotch competitions. The technology is already enabled on most clubs scoring software, but only applied for singles afaik

Salvadoor

I played Pierce Purcell against Spanish Point a few years ago and actually against one of the winning members from this years finals (he was in a different pairing back then).

I still remember that he was/is a very fine golfer - no mistakes and didn't seem to let the pressure get to him at all. They won their match comfortably; were never even a hole down and once they got the lead early, never looked like losing more than 1 hole in a row.

Incidentally myself and my partner from that day are no longer eligible for PP. I'm Jimmy Bruen and my partner Junior Cup (will probably be Senior Cup next year). Therefore I find it very hard to reconcile how this gentleman's handicap has remained so consistent over the subsequent years without significant planning or manipulation when he clearly was/is such a fine player

RGS

There are a number of things Golf Ireland can do to maintain the integrity of these handicapped competitions, if the will is there in Golf Ireland.

1---Any All Ireland Semi Final panel are not permitted to play in the same event the following year.

2--Raise the number of qualifying events to 10 from 3--I know this year no qualifying events are needed(Covid related I presume)
10 is not an unreasonable number to expect people to play. 2 qualifying events in May, June, July, August, September is not that hard to do.

Snotty

RGS wrote: »

There are a number of things Golf Ireland can do to maintain the integrity of these handicapped competitions, if the will is there in Golf Ireland.

1---Any All Ireland Semi Final panel are not permitted to play in the same event the following year.

2--Raise the number of qualifying events to 10 from 3--I know this year no qualifying events are needed(Covid related I presume)
10 is not an unreasonable number to expect people to play. 2 qualifying events in May, June, July, August, September is not that hard to do.

Unfortunately that will only punish the honest golfer, these cheats (and yes that is the correct term we should be using for them) will game the system no matter what is thrown at them, if their club and handicap secretary is enabling them and it seems like in their clubs they are, then the principles around an honourable handicap system/game leave huge openings for manipulation.
We can only hope threads like this, podcasts calling it out and a general disgust towards the clubs involved will embarrass them into realising there is no honour in cheating in an amateur mid/high handicapped event.

willabur

Snotty wrote: »

Unfortunately that will only punish the honest golfer, these cheats (and yes that is the correct term we should be using for them) will game the system no matter what is thrown at them, if their club and handicap secretary is enabling them and it seems like in their clubs they are, then the principles around an honourable handicap system/game leave huge openings for manipulation.
We can only hope threads like this, podcasts calling it out and a general disgust towards the clubs involved will embarrass them into realising there is no honour in cheating in an amateur mid/high handicapped event.

https://clarechampion.ie/spanish-point-rocked-by-disqualification-from-purcell-shield/

Some history there

opinionated3

Apparently an article in tomorrow's edition of the Clare echo where Spanish point come out and defend themselves. .
Wouldn't have to do that though if everything was above board and every PP player in the country didn't know about their "reputation".

opinionated3

Read the article yesterday. A load of bluster with little in the way of valid explanations from committee members. At one stage blaming the WHS for one panel member gaining an increase in handicap, even though he was already in the PP category. No interview with anyone from the GUI or someone who questions the club.
In other words, not worth your while reading.

A Shaved Duck?

opinionated3 wrote: »

Read the article yesterday. A load of bluster with little in the way of valid explanations from committee members. At one stage blaming the WHS for one panel member gaining an increase in handicap, even though he was already in the PP category. No interview with anyone from the GUI or someone who questions the club.
In other words, not worth your while reading.

Surely that doesnt help the argument?... if the average rounds are pushing his handicap up its consistent.

1 of 7

https://www.clareecho.ie/spanish-point-golf-club-defend-handicap-system-following-criticism/