Gerry Adams Maze Escape convictions quashed - time for quid pro quo?

John Hutton

The British are poised to stop any former soldiers from going on trial.

If former IRA volunteers were assured they would not have to go to jail they would be all to happy to share their stories I'm sure.

In the absence of a truth and reconciliation forum Adams in particular has done his best with meeting people and bringing people to meet former IRA members etc. Sadly it seems that the family of Brian Stack and their exploitation by the media and politicians has probably put an end to Adams ad hoc initiative leaving a truth and reconciliation forum the only show in town - but the Brits won't sign up to that

Jesus you'd swear the British are angels, their track record of crimes against Ireland and the Irish are what brought about the IRA + mostly the Horrendous, immoral actions by protestants against Catholics in the North of Ireland.

Criticise the IRA SF but first criticise the people who created the environment in Which Unionists had all the power and Catholics were the **** they stepped on!

Everywhere they went the British committed disgraceful acts of human rights violations.

Whatever the IRA did it pales in comparison as to what the British have done to Ireland and the Irish.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And so you are justifying the oppressed becoming the oppressor in other words?

Another poster put it way better than I would have 'civilians pretending to be soldiers, pretending not be soldiers, representing states they don't recognise'.
Mad when you think of it.

As I said maybe some SF supporters get a kick out of this. But I believe Republican's are missing a trick.

And the Adams news means it is chance to be more open and honest. Speak in a normal open manner. Otherwise it remains like a Hollywood fairy-tale where it is double speak, half-truths, and excuses.
That does republicanism a disservice and the ROI electorate.
It helps no one, to move on.

It is actually an insult to the signatories of the proclamation of independence as I said earlier. Who said they would cherish all the children of the nation equally.
How can that be done when Republicans cannot be even honest among themselves? Never mind honesty with others outside republicanism?

From the tone of a lot of the posts in this thread it appears many have really bought into 'republican speak' themselves and are unwilling or unable to move beyond it. They must stick to the party line.
It must be a torturous on the mind. But each to thier own.
I hope the 'day will come' where most republicans no longer have to be disingenuous and speak in riddles and half truth.
The British may have done a lot of things wrong, but they have shown they can move on. Why can't republicans?

Kicking and screaming as they're dragged through the courts, as another poster has remarked.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/25/un-court-rejects-uk-claim-to-sovereignty-over-chagos-islands


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22790037


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/09/malaya-massacre-villagers-coverup


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20302280

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus you'd swear the British are angels, their track record of crimes against Ireland and the Irish are what brought about the IRA + mostly the Horrendous, immoral actions by protestants against Catholics in the North of Ireland.

Criticise the IRA SF but first criticise the people who created the environment in Which Unionists had all the power and Catholics were the **** they stepped on!

Everywhere they went the British committed disgraceful acts of human rights violations.

Whatever the IRA did it pales in comparison as to what the British have done to Ireland and the Irish.

Mad Lad in case you have not noticed time has moved on. As SF should have the balls to do. The British have changed they given devolved government and so on etc etc.
Unfortunately many in SF still are tied to the past which is preventing them from moving forward. Which is why those who are sensible in the ROI electorate over 40% voted (Labour/FF/FG) for parties who said they would not go into government with SF. 75% overall did not vote for SF.

The ROI electorate are not the NI electorate the majority of thier conscious can be turned on and off. Plus there are other viable choices in the ROI that NI does not have.

The British are actually showing SF up in my view by the Adams verdict.
All SF can do in comparison is cover thier own tracks in comparison.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Mad Lad in case you have not noticed time has moved on. As SF should have the balls to do. The British have changed they given devolved government and so on etc etc.
.....................

You mean given back a (reformed) devolved government, as the previous on was - for 60 odd years - a sectarian institution that represented one community over another.

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

Kicking and screaming as they're dragged through the courts, as another poster has remarked.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/25/un-court-rejects-uk-claim-to-sovereignty-over-chagos-islands


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22790037


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/09/malaya-massacre-villagers-coverup


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20302280

The British got all those lands and so on because they were better militarily, better strategists and so on. At one stage the British Empire had nearly 25% of the world a tremendous achievement for such a small island nation. No matter how you look at it.
Meanwhile Ireland has never 'won' a war against any nation.

It seems SF only accept courts when they are in thier favor, and do not even recognize any court other than thier own normally.

It is over 100 years since the Irish WOI. Ireland is still predominately speaking the language of the former colonial master. Only about 70k regularly speak Irish each day, used as a language of communication.
Another SF failure.

Republicans cannot improve thier lot culturally. But can only oppress thier own in the name of an UI.
It was not long ago that SF was anti-EU, but later changed because they viewed it as politically expedient.

The British can be magnanimous to a lesser nation like Ireland, and give Adams justice. But unfortunately when SF Republicans are put 'in charge' of thier own communities the same does not seem to happen.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The British got all those lands and so on because they were better militarily, better strategists and so on. At one stage the British Empire had nearly 25% of the world a tremendous achievement for such a small island nation. No matter how you look at it.
Meanwhile Ireland has never 'won' a war against any nation.

It seems SF only accept courts when they are in thier favor, and do not even recognise any court other than thier own half the time.

It is over 100 years since the Irish WOI Ireland is still predominately speaking the language of former colonial master. Only 70k regularly speak Irish each day.
Another SF failure.

All the republicans seem to be able to do is even not improve thier lot culturally, or practically but oppress thier own in the name of an UI.
It was not long ago that SF was anti-EU, but later changed because they viewed it as politically expedient.

The British can be magnanimous to a lesser nation like Ireland, and give Adams justice. But unfortunately when SF Republicans are put 'in charge' of thier own communities the same does not seem to happen.

So why admire the British for being better at stealing and murdering on one hand and criticise a native organisation trying to fight for equality, not even to invade? All the British did was give themselves legitimacy, much like the IRA.
The 'republicans' in the north succeeded in gaining equal rights and equality and are pushing for same for the gay community.

By lesser nation do you mean we murdered and stole to a lesser extent?

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The British got all those lands and so on because they were better militarily, better strategists and so on.

They took their rifles and shot down lads armed with sticks, gave themselves a few medals for doing so and purloined the countries involved wealth.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

At one stage the British Empire had nearly 25% of the world a tremendous achievement for such a small island nation. No matter how you look at it.
Meanwhile Ireland has never 'won' a war against any nation.

Yep, theres nothing says "tremendous achievment" like slaughtering natives en masse and setting up a racist sectarian colony to govern the survivors.



When the Germans - who you included in your OP - were in control of most of Western Europe, was that a "tremendous achievment" as well?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Republicans cannot improve thier lot culturally. But can only oppress thier own in the name of an UI.

Republicanism has links to Africa, the middle east, spain, latin America.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The British can be magnanimous to a lesser nation like Ireland, and give Adams justice. But unfortunately when SF Republicans are put 'in charge' of thier own communities the same does not seem to happen.

Well, well well. The mask has really hit the floor now.

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

You mean given back a (reformed) devolved government, as the previous on was - for 60 odd years - a sectarian institution that represented one community over another.

So just on the basis that Ireland is an Island somehow it should be united? The British have been in Ireland for 100's of years. And whether you like it or have given much to Ireland. Common law jurisprudence, language, popular culture and so on.
Those in charge of the sectarian institution were those born and bred in Ireland.
Strictly speaking it was not the 'mainland' British. But those Irish who viewed themselves as British.

But in case you have not noticed those days have moved on. They even had Georgie Best's funeral there with many from all different backgrounds at it.
Also sectarianism is nonsensical to me as someone from the ROI.

Most Irish people only go to church for funerals or weddings. Religion is not a badge of identity. It is only in the warped world of unionists and republicans that it is. Head the balls on both sides.

Lesser nation, who do you think you are ? are you even Irish.

I think we can take pride in the fact we were never the "then" viscous scum that thought they could do what they liked to other nations and their people and take ownership of their land.

I am grateful and very proud that I am not from a Nation with a very very long history of mass murder and torture!

jelutong

I wouldn’t consider colonising 25% of the world “an achievement “.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So just on the basis that Ireland is an Island somehow it should be united? The British have been in Ireland for 100's of years. And whether you like it or have given much to Ireland. Common law jurisprudence, language, popular culture and so on.
Those in charge of the sectarian institution were those born and bred in Ireland.

What was wrong with the language we had? Let me guess - it was "lesser", was it?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But in case you have not noticed those days have moved on. They even had Georgie Best's funeral there with many from all different backgrounds at it.
Also sectarianism is nonsensical to me as someone from the ROI.

It wasn't "nonsensical" to the people who suffered under it in NI.

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But in case you have not noticed those days have moved on..

You haven't obviously !

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

They took their rifles and shot down lads armed with sticks, gave themselves a few medals for doing so and purloined the countries involved wealth.


Yep, theres nothing says "tremendous achievment" like slaughtering natives en masse and setting up a racist sectarian colony to govern the survivors.



When the Germans - who you included in your OP - were in control of most of Western Europe, was that a "tremendous achievement" as well?


Well, well well. The mask has really hit the floor now.

The Germans in WWII had tremendous organisational skills. And the only reason why they lost it was because of thier own sectarianism which used up valuable resources.

Yes, Ireland is a lesser nation than many others. Why?

Because as Pearse said -
"Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam."

Polish speak Polish, Hungarians speak Hungarian. Etc.
And we have two leaders of SF one with basic Irish, the other with none.
It does not say much for Irish culture, nationalism does it?

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

What was wrong with the language we had? Let me guess - it was "lesser", was it?

I never said that. But all SF has succeeded in doing is polluting Ireland's wonderful language by politicizing it. Many do not like wearing the fainne for that reason.
Language is for communication and cultural enrichment, not a political tool.

It wasn't "nonsensical" to the people who suffered under it in NI.

Obviously, and it has warped minds in NI on both sides as a result.

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

You haven't obviously !

Read my OP I suggest. And it was you who brought up history along with others.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The Germans in WWII had tremendous organisational skills. And the only reason why they lost it was because of thier own sectarianism which used up valuable resources.

As I asked - when the Germans - who you included in your OP - were in control of most of Western Europe, was that a "tremendous achievement" as well?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes, Ireland is a lesser nation than many others. Why?

Keep digging why don't you.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Polish speak polish, Hungarians speak Hungarian. Etc.
And we have two leaders of SF one with basic Irish the other with none.
It does not say much for Irish culture does it?

Simplistic nonsense.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So just on the basis that Ireland is an Island somehow it should be united? The British have been in Ireland for 100's of years. And whether you like it or have given much to Ireland. Common law jurisprudence, language, popular culture and so on.
Those in charge of the sectarian institution were those born and bred in Ireland.
Strictly speaking it was not the 'mainland' British. But those Irish who viewed themselves as British.

But in case you have not noticed those days have moved on. They even had Georgie Best's funeral there with many from all different backgrounds at it.
Also sectarianism is nonsensical to me as someone from the ROI.

Most Irish people only go to church for funerals or weddings. Religion is not a badge of identity. It is only in the warped world of unionists and republicans that it is. Head the balls on both sides.

So you would have been against German unification and the USSR leaving Poland?
I'll take equality, self determination and justice over the Spice Girls thanks.

James Brown

jelutong wrote: »

I wouldn’t consider colonising 25% of the world “an achievement “.

Depends on were your moral compass lies.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The Germans in WWII had tremendous organisational skills. And the only reason why they lost it was because of thier own sectarianism which used up valuable resources.

Yes, Ireland is a lesser nation than many others. Why?

Because as Pearse said -
"Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam."

Polish speak Polish, Hungarians speak Hungarian. Etc.
And we have two leaders of SF one with basic Irish, the other with none.
It does not say much for Irish culture, nationalism does it?

SF don't own the Irish language or Nationalism. Thankfully we have parties like SF fighting for Irish culture and heritage.
Do you Morris dance by the way?

Zebra3

It's quite staggering that a man has convictions quashed and the first thing that's not called for is for those who detained him illegally (i.e. kidnapped him) to be prosecuted.

As for moving on, tell that to those from the Chagos and Kenya who have being trying to get justice from the British terrorist establishment for decades.

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

As I asked - when the Germans - who you included in your OP - were in control of most of Western Europe, was that a "tremendous achievement" as well?

No because they lost all they gained very fast and engaged in sectarianism to the deteruiment of military success.

Keep digging why don't you.

Not digging anything just telling the truth, which many on this thread seem incapable of.

Simplistic nonsense.

Not nonsense at all name any country in Europe who does not speak thier first language. In fact A.Griffith used Hungary as an example to revive the Irish language usage. Hungary succeeded spectacularly and Ireland failed just as spectacularly.

The majority of those who voted for SF in the ROI (working class areas) have ironically closer ties culturally with GB - England in particular. English language, Foreign football teams English or Scottish. English music and English soaps.

That irony is not lost on me. Irish me arse.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No because they lost all they gained very fast and engaged in sectarianism to the deteruiment of military success.

So the diffefence between the nazis and the brits is just that the brits were better at subjugating others. Lovely.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not digging anything just telling the truth, which many on this thread seem incapable of.

It's a rather insulting condascending and ignorant view. And one that exposes your agenda.

Truthvader

OMG This thread has collapsed into the usual squalid mess.

And now the fetid corpse of the Irish language is wheeled out

Either you believe it is OK or understandable or whatever to kill and maim innocent people in pursuit of some agenda, injustice or cause or you don't.

And Gerry is of course innocent and pure like OJ Simpson, Christy Kinahan, and all the other smirking thugs who destroy the lives of others but run free.

Nothing more to be said

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

So the diffefence between the nazis and the brits is just that the brits were better at subjugating others. Lovely.

That is how militarism works. It is how the IRA succeeded in controlling Free Derry Corner. Rooting out informants and so on.

It's a rather insulting condascending and ignorant view. And one that exposes your agenda.

I don't care I see republicanism as a sham ideology in Ireland. SF just prey on the unemployed and uneducated in the ROI, In the vague promise of a better future. Similar to the populist tactics Hitler employed so it gave him a platform.
FF did the same in the 30's and all SF have done is rebrand thier FF 1932 manifesto.

If you want to cod yourself that Ireland is Irish culturally you can. But it is like a man missing a shoe. No soul - missing some of its soul. Changing the colour of the post boxes has made little difference.

It is still Man U, Liverpool, Eastenders and Coronation Street, and 'Britains got talent' for the ROI working classes. And most see Irish as a 'dead language' barring a few pocket where there is a Gaelscoil. They behave more like a part of England than a place in Ireland.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is how miltarism works.

Yes, the militarism that you approve of. You're an apologist for colonial atrocity.

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

Yes, the militarism that you approve of. You're an apologist for colonial atrocity.

No I am not better miliatary force similar as. The IRA had to resort to guerrilla tactics and wait until GB was otherwise engaged in a world war.
The IRA also shot down many protestants during the war of independence dunmanway and so on.

My point is SF still behave like a 'street corner gang' in mindset and not a true political party.
It is why Maria Cahill or Quinn's family will never receive proper justice with SF's help.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No I am not better (..........) justice with SF's help.

No, you view anything Irish as "lesser". We read the post where you stated it, noted where you doubled down on it. You haven't a leg to stand on.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

And Gerry is of course innocent and pure

Sorry...who claimed this?

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not nonsense at all name any country in Europe who does not speak thier first language. In fact A.Griffith used Hungary as an example to revive the Irish language usage. Hungary succeeded spectacularly and Ireland failed just as spectacularly.

800 years of being forced to speak another language will do this to any nation, beating, torture and murder for speaking your own language.

And the British are the better nation, we the lesser ?