Public service pay cut?

PARlance

cms88 wrote: »

Sure did you not know there's no other front line worker at the moment only nurses?

It's not that hard to see why nurses are getting the most kudos, is it. Front line, in the firing line. I know 2 and both got it, one got it very bad and they wasn't far away from having to be put in an induced coma. Back to work a few weeks later as well.

Shop workers etc are getting acknowledged as well but Facebook posts/campaigns etc don't pick up as much attention... and for obvious reasons when you compare against nurses.

addaword

khalessi wrote: »

I have no problem with that as it is a tough job.

There are plenty of other tough jobs in the economy, and virtually none in the private sector where you can retire after 30 years with a pension pot worth 1.8 million, as the Irish times research shows.

cms88

PARlance wrote: »

It's not that hard to see why nurses are getting the most kudos, is it. Front line, in the firing line. I know 2 and both got it, one got it very bad and they wasn't far away from having to be put in an induced coma. Back to work a few weeks later as well.

Shop workers etc are getting acknowledged as well but Facebook posts/campaigns etc don't pick up as much attention... and for obvious reasons when you compare against nurses.

At the best of times the likes of shop workers etc are looking down on, and at the moment it's happening even more to some. Nurses etc have some idea that the people they come into contact with may have it, while shop workers don't and can be coming into contact with thousands people over the course of a week

TheValeyard

khalessi wrote: »

I have no problem with that as it is a tough job.

Yeah, a Garda trying to chase down and arrest criminals in his 60s would hardly be ideal now.

addaword

People work in their 50s and 60s in other jobs and do not retire with a pension pot worth an average 1.8 million.

salonfire

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think it's great that Garda get to retire after 30 years. We should be emulating this kind of thing in the private sector not lambasting them and trying to get everyone to work till 70.

Who would pay the taxes to keep the country going then?

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

I dont need a chart for this one lads


The way the country gets income tax:



Private sector>Exchequer>Public sector

Note its not the other way around.


Every public sector worker is another cost to the country's balance sheet that the private sector worker is hit for, no matter how much "tax" is written on their (PubSec) payslip.

just incorrect. not really worth discussing beyond that

almostover

LillySV wrote: »

You realise that the public sectors net pay is a fraction of gross...not just as a result of the extra levies that everyone has to pay.. but also extra “pension levies” that were on top of a number of pension deductions already been made ... and even then gross pay for numerous positions have been lowered... so most in public service on way less than they were in 2008... the increases were supposed to be to re instate the pay to the levels they had in first place.... even though public servants paying out way more and getting a lot less net pay... less pay than they had 12 years ago in 2008!! Even though inflation and cost of living is way higher.


Anyways your Also stating that loads in your Workplace at home on 80%... so no travel expenses... long holiday while a lot of the same public servants you have a problem with are flat out Working at moment and putting their lives at risk contact tracing ,setting up covid payments for a lot of the country , meeting and dealing with infected people in health service .... resulting in many getting covid 19 through their work ...

And you think they should get less!! Come on... you feeding on the anti public service dribble rte and the indo publish every couple of weeks...

My net pay is also a fraction of my gross pay. That's the case regardless of what sector one works in. I contribute to a private pension scheme and all of my contributions could be wiped out in an economic crash. God forbid the public sector would be asked to contribute towards their pension scheme.

I'm making the point that increased pay should be for increased performance. That's how it works for me. If I perform the same as last year and have not improved myself or the processes that I interact with in any way I will get no end of year pay rise. Increased performance in our public sector should be incentivised. We can't be giving pay rises for stagnation of service levels.

Yup long holiday for production operators. I'm sure they're glad to be home pondering if their jobs will be there in a few weeks time. They should be thankful though to not have travel expenses while their job security is eroded.

I never stated public sector workers should get less. I'm saying that the public service must become more efficient so that the taxpayer gets value for their tax money. I've no problem with pay restoration or increases if the service level improves enough to warrant it and if the country can afford it.

Your post more or less validated my position on public sector attitudes.

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

Wow. Meanwhile the state pension age for the private sector worker is 67!



Fair?

the state pension age is the same for everyone

jesus the entrance exam really is beyond ye tbf

PARlance

cms88 wrote: »

At the best of times the likes of shop workers etc are looking down on, and at the moment it's happening even more to some. Nurses etc have some idea that the people they come into contact with may have it, while shop workers don't and can be coming into contact with thousands people over the course of a week

Wouldn't agree with that. Shop workers are getting a fair bit of thanks and credit imo. And they deserve it. Not as much as nurses, but I think that's for obvious reasons.

It doesn't seem that obvious to you though, but if you want to try to create a story that somehow the guy behind the till at Aldi is in more danger than a nurse caring for confirmed cases for the sake of a bit of bashing then fire ahead.

Thelonious Monk

salonfire wrote: »

Who would pay the taxes to keep the country going then?

Well I think we need to weigh things up. We could all work less but have less money and more time off and earlier retirement. I know I'd way prefer that to the current bullsh*t system.

LillySV

addaword wrote: »

I know some retired public servants who are getting paid treble (for not working) what shop what shop workers are paid for working.

High level c servants from years ago.. yes I agree with u that some Long retired c servants getting paid Great money ... but that gravy train long removed for the current workers . Your politicians and tds getting paid massive pensions from 4 -5 years work plus expenses for inaction ... lining their pockets... focus your anger on them

Ps the facts regards to general ps pay are always skewed as it includes judges , Secretary generals etc

addaword

addaword wrote: »

But not enough. According to the Irish Times report, it found that average public-sector wages in Ireland amounted to €47,400 compared with €33,900 in the private sector. That was well before Covid 19. In the past few months, many people from the private sector are on €350 per week.

what analysis have you done to justify "not enough"

just that there's a difference?

thats been discussed a thousand times on boards and the reasons are anywhere for you to look up.

also the idea that if things are in a mess, you have to mirror in the public sphere what happens in the private sphere is likewise simplistic

we do the things that your masters cant do profitably or safely. of course we get busy when ye decide things are too tough to be bothered with.

dont be goin on about pay when the adults are sorting stuff out now lads. enjoy yr break.

da_miser

PARlance wrote: »

It's not that hard to see why nurses are getting the most kudos, is it. Front line, in the firing line. I know 2 and both got it, one got it very bad and they wasn't far away from having to be put in an induced coma. Back to work a few weeks later as well.

Shop workers etc are getting acknowledged as well but Facebook posts/campaigns etc don't pick up as much attention... and for obvious reasons when you compare against nurses.

cms88 wrote: »

At the best of times the likes of shop workers etc are looking down on, and at the moment it's happening even more to some. Nurses etc have some idea that the people they come into contact with may have it, while shop workers don't and can be coming into contact with thousands people over the course of a week

If you look at the stats from the Uk, your more likely to die from covid-19 if you are a shop worker or bus driver, i dont see no campaign to recognise the work they do.
As a matter of fact i dont see that shop workers and bus drivers have enough down time at work for dance choreography and video it and post to the internet.
Suppose most nurses are female and need a fix of attention, hence the videos

nthclare

nthclare wrote: »

I work in the public sector myself,and would happily go down to a three day week.
I work with tree's arboretums, forestry and sometimes crop production ie growing shrub's, bedding plants etc...

If I was on a three day week I could make hay while the sun shines, my son's finished education now and grow up. So I can pursue other project's and I've plenty of interests that would need more time to pursue a more balanced lifestyle.

Where there's a will there's a way, bring it on I say.

I'll bump this again, I'd say the public sector workers on the page don't like it because it's not good for business...

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

What pension scheme would that be. 72% of private sector workers dont have one.



Now riddle me this - why are private sector workers pension defined contribution whilst pubSec workers get Defined Benefit? Also why is it they pay only a fraction towards this?


Or that the law was changed so Priv Sec workers now have a higher retirement age than they do?

whats stopping private sector workers joining a pension scheme?

whats stopping private sector workers getting defined benefit?

sounds like you need to go complain to the private sector rather than crying in here.

what do you know about what a public worker contributes to their pension, or what the average lifetime contribution vs the average total payput is?

nothing.

what law on retirement age applies to private but not public workers?

go on?

LillySV

almostover wrote: »

My net pay is also a fraction of my gross pay. That's the case regardless of what sector one works in. I contribute to a private pension scheme and all of my contributions could be wiped out in an economic crash. God forbid the public sector would be asked to contribute towards their pension scheme.

I'm making the point that increased pay should be for increased performance. That's how it works for me. If I perform the same as last year and have not improved myself of the processes that I interact with in any way I will get no end of year pay rise. Increased performance in our public sector should be incentivised. We can't be giving pay rises for stagnation of service levels.

Yup long holiday for production operators. I'm sure they're glad to be home pondering if their jobs will be there in a few weeks time. They should be thankful though to not have travel expenses while their job security is eroded.

I never stated public sector workers should get less. I'm saying that the public service must become more efficient so that the taxpayer gets value for their tax money. I've no problem with pay restoration or increases if the service level improves enough to warrant it and if the country can afford it.

Your post more or less validated my position on public sector attitudes.

Well they are on less pay than they signed up for prior to 08, have way more deductions now that lowers their net pay to well below what they would’ve got in 08, they have three pension deductions in their wages each period, plus the prsi, paye, usc, and asc. They are losing all the money in the 12 years since and still with any future increase be on less net than they would in 2008. Ohh and did I forget , they work an extra half hour a day since then also... with no money or reward for it!! I’d like to see those conditions put forward in your company and see how many agree to it

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

So what? Tax take is all that matters. If there isnt any, then why should Ireland Inc is broke why do think you should continue to get paid as if it wasn't? Exchequer is likely to be 30billion down on last year, with even more added to the national debt.



And if the govt decides to borrow even more - why should those working in the private sector have their standard of living absolutely destroyed just so you can keep your pay and pension higher than theirs?

why should the public sector accept this moaning just because youve decided "tax take is all that matters?" its a nonsensically simplistic statement that everyone in the thread, the service, certainly at the levels of govt where decisions will be made can feel totally free to ignore completely.


why would the public sector benchmark themselves against private sector job losses? you seem to be missing the point of getting a stable, modest income, well pensioned career.

maybe you didnt think you could take the moaners on boards? ah theyre not so bad. quite amusing angry little chaps actually.

purifol0

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the state pension age is the same for everyone

jesus the entrance exam really is beyond ye tbf

Ah but that's not the reality is it?


"Public sector workers were given a special pension deal while private sector staff were forced to sign on the dole after the retirement age went up to 66, it was revealed on Tuesday.

It has also been disclosed that it was Labour Party leader Brendan Howlin who signed an order granting public servants the subsidy while ordinary workers were forced to seek Jobseekers Allowance.

This effectively meant that 300,000 State employees got a much better deal over the 1.8 million people in the private sector who had paid for their pensions all their lives."

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/retirement-age-increase-ireland-pension-21329156

addaword

addaword wrote: »

It is all private sector families who have taken a hit yet again in this recession / pandemic, not public sector families.

We are all in this together? Yeah, right.

Different average salaries, different pensions, different retirement ages, different sick leave..

all private sector families have taken massive pay cuts?

and ye all earn the same? with all the same benefits?

mate, yr private sector friends are lying to you.

cms88

PARlance wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that. Shop workers are getting a fair bit of thanks and credit imo. And they deserve it. Not as much as nurses, but I think that's for obvious reasons.

It doesn't seem that obvious to you though, but if you want to try to create a story that somehow the guy behind the till at Aldi is in more danger than a nurse caring for confirmed cases for the sake of a bit of bashing then fire ahead.

It's not bashing at all. Just pointing out if you were to believe Facebook etc there's no one other than nurses putting themselves at risk, and that even includes within the health sector. But sure ''everyone loves nurses'' don't they....

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

No, this thread is about whether or not the pubsec will get a pay cut. Not anyone's life choices. If pubsec members want to slate members of the private sector (who are literally taxed heavily to pay for an even larger amount of them than ever), and call them suckers for not joining up thats just bad form.

police the arguments on both sides with this hankie-to-nose shrillness, or dont bother lecturing just one side

if ppl were interested in discussion and not cheap shots im sure we could have an intelligent thread about this kind of thing but nope "we pay for you" and "youse do nothing" usual bull**** prevails

and reams of uninformed lazy received wisdom

so show half the respect you want back maybe and see how we go from there, otherwise you get what you get

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

Actually what should be done is figure out if your job can be outsourced to the private sector for less. Even better figure out if you are needed at all. The entire public service is massively over staffed as is. And the last recession proved that even after a huge amount of workers opted for retirement, they were not replaced simply because it turns out they were doing nothing productive or necessary at all.


Are you another pen pusher that could be outsourced for less or even completely obsoleted by a half decent programmer? Because if you are a clerical officer you absolutely can be, and frankly thats how it should be.



The private sector does not exist so you people can have handy jobs for life.

^ this is our bastion of respectful discourse in the thread folks


walk into a warehouse and talk to some big lad working there like that because "customers pay his wages"

itll be a public servant treating you an hour later id say

almostover

LillySV wrote: »

Well they are on less pay than they signed up for prior to 08, have way more deductions now that lowers their net pay to well below what they would’ve got in 08, they have three pension deductions in their wages each period, plus the prsi, paye, usc, and asc. They are losing all the money in the 12 years since and still with any future increase be on less net than they would in 2008. Ohh and did I forget , they work an extra half hour a day since then also... with no money or reward for it!! I’d like to see those conditions put forward in your company and see how many agree to it

The public sector pay deals brought in under benchmarking were unsustainable. We can't go back to that practice. Public sector workers must contribute appropriately towards their pension also. The old system of meager contributions for an excellent pension scheme was also unsustainable. Surely you understand that?

I'm contracted for a 38 hour working week. I have never worked that. Usually 40-45 hours, but I want to progress my career and get yearly salary increases. If I was happy stagnating I'd do just what's required of me and no more. It's simple.

PARlance

cms88 wrote: »

It's not bashing at all. Just pointing out if you were to believe Facebook etc there's no one other than nurses putting themselves at risk, and that even includes within the health sector. But sure ''everyone loves nurses'' don't they....

You do realise that most content on Facebook is user generated and if you're seeing lots of campaigns about nurses it's because people are liking same posts, sharing them etc. I've seen posts about shop workers as well, just that they are shared/liked as much and don't get as much traction.

Anyway, if you're thanking posts that claim nurses are making videos because most of them are women and need the attention... I'll bow out.

addaword

addaword wrote: »

I know some retired public servants who are getting paid treble (for not working) what shop what shop workers are paid for working.

you think retired ppl should work, or that they shouldnt get pensions, or that nobody in the private sector has a good pension?

what?

its drivel tbh

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

Did you forget to mention your lump sum on retirement? Because that alone equates to several years of state pension right there, and none of us will live forever - so its not very nice to force the priv sec to live longer than the pubsec to even avail of their meagre state pension.


Private sector pensions can be defined benefit in the same way as you can win the lotto. This is limited in real terms to company directors - and those companies still ahve to be profitiable other wise youre not getting anything at all.


Worth noting that the highest paid pubsec the gardai have an incredibly early retirement age and of course legally there can be no private sector group to compare them with. Nice!

We also pay for our lump sum. It's not free, it's part of the package and again, you can have a similar scheme in the private sector. Plenty of companies do it. The idea **** forcing people to live longer is just rubbish being thrown about to cover the fact that you get a pension of 10,000 per year that I won't despite having also paid prsi my entire adult life. Why is that again? Why am I paying prsi for services I will never avail of? Let's not forget the pension Levy by the way. Another 7% taken from my wages.

Defined benefit, irrelevant how common it is. You made your choice. Like you said, most don't even bother taking out a pension scheme in the first place. Don't drag me down because I plan for my future and others don't. I have life assurance as well. Should I be punished for that too?

Last part. Gardai are well paid because they work a lot of overtime. The basic pay without the extra hours isn't anything special. You could compare them to the airport police who are paid more. Probable doesn't suit your agenda though.

It all boils down to one single reality, Gardai are essential. We need them, society needs them and it's a hard job. If it's so easy and well paid, you and everyone else could have joined and then had the pleasure of paying paye, prsi, usc and the pension Levy. In other words, more tax per euro earned than the private sector.

thomasdylan

LillySV wrote: »

Well they are on less pay than they signed up for prior to 08, have way more deductions now that lowers their net pay to well below what they would’ve got in 08, they have three pension deductions in their wages each period, plus the prsi, paye, usc, and asc. They are losing all the money in the 12 years since and still with any future increase be on less net than they would in 2008. Ohh and did I forget , they work an extra half hour a day since then also... with no money or reward for it!! I’d like to see those conditions put forward in your company and see how many agree to it

Anyone working half an hour extra a day wasn't working full time hours before. You weren't doing 39 or 40 hours a week. There's little to moan about there.

Geuze

almostover wrote: »

Public sector workers must contribute appropriately towards their pension also. The old system of meager contributions for an excellent pension scheme was also unsustainable.

Is 6.5% pension contribution plus 10% PRD/ASC on all wages over 32k enough?

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

Is 6.5% pension contribution plus 10% PRD/ASC on all wages over 32k enough?

Show me a 25 year old in the private sector paying 17% to a pension