Public service pay cut?

Pogue eile

wrangler wrote: »

There's no accountability in teh civil service and you can't lose your job no matter how bad you are. That's a bad combination

It's also a load of boll*x but dont let that stop you!

Vizzy

wrangler wrote: »

[/B] Sadly the selfemployed work way longer hours than any frontline or civil servant and will be the first port of call to finance those payrise and paid sick leave.

Surely the self employed are doing this because they are reaping the rewards of it ?

Surely these entrepreneurs are not silly enough to work if they are not getting well paid for it.

purifol0

Vizzy wrote: »

Surely the self employed are doing this because they are reaping the rewards of it ?

Surely these entrepreneurs are not silly enough to work if they are not getting well paid for it.

You really have no clue how hard it can be to build a business. I worked as an self employed IT contractor, while still doing the PAYE day job. Covid would have destroyed me since my clients were force closed if I had no had that day job.


Public sector given pay hikes instead of cuts have some gall to blame any private sector worker for trying to build a business, all while getting paid out of their taxes

Vizzy

purifol0 wrote: »

I worked as an self employed IT contractor, while still doing the PAYE day job.

You had 2 jobs ?

Nice.

Wanderer78

purifol0 wrote: »

You really have no clue how hard it can be to build a business. I worked as an self employed IT contractor, while still doing the PAYE day job. Covid would have destroyed me since my clients were force closed if I had no had that day job.


Public sector given pay hikes instead of cuts have some gall to blame any private sector worker for trying to build a business, all while getting paid out of their taxes

again, taxes payers dont pay public servants, we re paying back our public debts with our taxes

Pogue eile

wrangler wrote: »

[/B]

Sadly the selfemployed work way longer hours than any frontline or civil servant and will be the first port of call to finance those payrise and paid sick leave.

More lies, you are on a roll freind!

raze_them_all_

If public sector is so amazing why doesn't everyone join?? Could it be that the amazing salaries aren't as good when private sector is booming but only look good when things go tits up in the private sector??

purifol0

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

If public sector is so amazing why doesn't everyone join?? Could it be that the amazing salaries aren't as good when private sector is booming but only look good when things go tits up in the private sector??

What are you talking about, positions in the public sector get filled fast. Not only that but look at Garda recruitment drives, the number of applicants is hundred fold compared to the amount of positions available.


Men might as well not bother going for certain jobs since gender discrimination is totally ok there

https://www.thejournal.ie/women-only-professorships-not-discriminating-against-men-4954183-Jan2020/

purifol0

No need to get so personal

Private sector > exchequer > public sector


Now you'll notice the tax money doesn't go the other way

Pogue eile

purifol0 wrote: »

Are you being thick or just financially illiterate?

/QUOTE]

:D Alanis Morrisette missed a beat with this one!

I'm not surprised that you have missed the cut in your attempts to join the Public Service!

wrangler

/QUOTE]


I'm not surprised that you have missed the cut in your attempts to join the Public Service![/QUOTE]

I'm not surprised you're in the public service if you can't see that the public service does not generate any revenue for the country. It costs money.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

I'm not surprised you're in the public service if you can't see that the public service does not generate any revenue for the country. It costs money.

IDA - (public sector) attracts FDI "whale"
Local authorities zone land for the factories
provide roads and other infrastructure.
Universities provide educated workforce.
Gardai provide a secure state to operate in.
Revenue ensure the exchequer benifets.
Central Bank regulates the financial affairs.
HSA ensures a safe place to work.
EPA ensure no environmental harm.
HSE provide health services.
Dept. Education provide schools for workers' kids.
Ancillary local support industry to service the FDI "whale"

But yea - the public sector doesn't generate revenue for the country.

Dav010

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

IDA - (public sector) attracts FDI "whale"
Local authorities zone land for the factories
provide roads and other infrastructure.
Universities provide educated workforce.
Gardai provide a secure state to operate in.
Revenue ensure the exchequer benifets.
Central Bank regulates the financial affairs.
HSA ensures a safe place to work.
EPA ensure no environmental harm.
HSE provide health services.
Dept. Education provide schools for workers' kids.
Ancillary local support industry to service the FDI "whale"

But yea - the public sector doesn't generate revenue for the country.

I’m struggling to see where the PS generates revenue in that list. Taking the first couple, zoning the land which does not belong to the PS does not necessarily mean a factory will be built, nor generate revenue. I’m not sure how Government expenditure on infrastructure generates revenue for the treasury, would it not be a net spend rather than profit? Universities may provide an educated workforce, but the graduate actually has to do the work to generate an income, I could go on, but you get the jist of it.

purifol0

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

IDA - (public sector) attracts FDI "whale"
Local authorities zone land for the factories
provide roads and other infrastructure.
Universities provide educated workforce.
Gardai provide a secure state to operate in.
Revenue ensure the exchequer benifets.
Central Bank regulates the financial affairs.
HSA ensures a safe place to work.
EPA ensure no environmental harm.
HSE provide health services.
Dept. Education provide schools for workers' kids.
Ancillary local support industry to service the FDI "whale"

But yea - the public sector doesn't generate revenue for the country.

Actually tax payers pay a fortune for all that, and we definitely don't get value for money - HSE anyone? Dept Education has been absolutely brilliant these last 2 years eh.
Also this is hilarious "Revenue ensure the exchequer benifets." yeah m8 they're tax collectors - Im forced by law to fork over my earnings.

Oh and "Universities provide educated workforce." They cost the tax payer a bomb, 75% of their budget goes on staff and they regularly are on front of the PAC because of scandals too numerous and expensive to mention.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

Public service doesn't generate any income for the country, If we're paying back money it's for loans that were given to pay the public service years ago.
The state of the country is the way it is because the civil service has it that way. Like the health service, finance is badly managed too ...... need only look at the new childrens hospital.
There's no accountability in teh civil service and you can't lose your job no matter how bad you are. That's a bad combination

C+I+G+X-M

Whats G, and what is it worth to the Irish economy?

The answer is a long, long way from 'nothing'

wrangler

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m struggling to see where the PS generates revenue in that list. Taking the first couple, zoning the land which does not belong to the PS does not necessarily mean a factory will be built, nor generate revenue. I’m not sure how Government expenditure on infrastructure generates revenue for the treasury, would it not be a net spend rather than profit? Universities may provide an educated workforce, but the graduate actually has to do the work to generate an income, I could go on, but you get the jist of it.

The 2008 recession was made an awful lot worse by the Central bank ignoring what was going on in the banks,
Before Covid, the waiting list for hospital treatment was 700000, despite those with health insurance paying twice for health care
We could refute all of mikes statements if we wanted to

gmisk

purifol0 wrote: »

What are you talking about, positions in the public sector get filled fast. Not only that but look at Garda recruitment drives, the number of applicants is hundred fold compared to the amount of positions available.


Men might as well not bother going for certain jobs since gender discrimination is totally ok there

https://www.thejournal.ie/women-only-professorships-not-discriminating-against-men-4954183-Jan2020/

There are tonnes of open competitions at different levels, publicjobs.ie they pretty much run constantly.
If you put in the work you will get on one.

I haven't felt gender discriminated in any way I joined as a CO and am now an AP, any promotions I have seen are based on merit.

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

C+I+G+X-M

Whats G, and what is it worth to the Irish economy?

The answer is a long, long way from 'nothing'

It makes more sense if you quote the full equation.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m struggling to see where the PS generates revenue in that list. Taking the first couple, zoning the land which does not belong to the PS does not necessarily mean a factory will be built, nor generate revenue. I’m not sure how Government expenditure on infrastructure generates revenue for the treasury, would it not be a net spend rather than profit? Universities may provide an educated workforce, but the graduate actually has to do the work to generate an income, I could go on, but you get the jist of it.

Functioning private sector cannot exist without a functioing public sector.

That'd I'd have to explain each point and what happens in the absence of the public sector service is frightening

purifol0

Deleted User wrote: »

C+I+G+X-M

Whats G, and what is it worth to the Irish economy?

The answer is a long, long way from 'nothing'

You are right, for the last 10 years the govt has been borrowing money from international markets and using it to pay the massive public pay and pensions bill as the local economy couldn't support it.


So yeah the public sector has us massively in debt! A long way from nothing indeed.

purifol0

gmisk wrote: »

I haven't felt gender discriminated in any way .

Thats funny, because a lot of your co workers/colleagues do


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/men-wrongly-perceive-gender-bias-in-civil-service-promotion-esri-1.4424784


and I wonder why?


"the income differential between male and female staff fell from 3.7 per cent to 1.4 per cent in the past 12 months on the back of several initiatives to promote a better gender balance."


Seems the balance is tipped one way only.


Of course its not like they would blatantly advertise high paying women only super prestigious jobs right???


https://www.thejournal.ie/women-only-professorships-not-discriminating-against-men-4954183-Jan2020/



Oh

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

You are right, for the last 10 years the govt has been borrowing money from international markets and using it to pay the massive public pay and pensions bill as the local economy couldn't support it.


So yeah the public sector has us massively in debt! A long way from nothing indeed.

If you fell on hard times, lost your job, got a disability etc. god forbid, what should happen you ?

Treppen

wrangler wrote: »

/QUOTE]


I'm not surprised that you have missed the cut in your attempts to join the Public Service!

I'm not surprised you're in the public service if you can't see that the public service does not generate any revenue for the country. It costs money.[/quote]

What, you think Nurses should work for free ?

BTW where do public sector wages go at the end of the day?

In my experience it's to pay untrained shoddy tradesmen to come to your house to fleece you, lazy accountants who don't know their job, overpriced services from greedy hoteliers and restrauters, mechanics who haven't a clue etc. etc.

purifol0

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

If you fell on hard times, lost your job, got a disability etc. god forbid, what should happen you ?

Hopefully I'd be eligible to get some of my tax back as dole payments, why?

Dav010

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Functioning private sector cannot exist without a functioing public sector.

That'd I'd have to explain each point and what happens in the absence of the public sector service is frightening

Agreed, Government spending contributes to GDP, but how that equates to the Public Service generating revenue is a stretch. A functioning PS is absolutely necessary, but protecting the PS from reform which includes job losses and pay reform is not. I do not want to see Government spending cut, but it may be necessary if the money isn’t there to spend. Personally I find the idea that a local planning officer who zones land/approves planning takes credit for generating revenue after someone else does the graft and provides the finance a bit absurd.

beauf

purifol0 wrote: »

Hopefully I'd be eligible to get some of my tax back as dole payments, why?

I assume hes asking who runs that system.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

It makes more sense if you quote the full equation.

No, for the purposes im satisfied the point is well made.

The money spent by govt is an input into the economy and many, many small, medium and large suppliers benefit through that spending

If we want to start getting into where money and wealth is generated, thats fine- i dont tbh

But govt raises legitimate income through taxation and like any income, most of it is spent elsewhere in the business of carrying out its various goals and aims

A business raises income through charging for goods and services and spends that income, generating wealth in a number of different ways

Its all, believe it or not, good for an economy, really.

But anyone seeing taxation as a black whole and govt spending as this big minus figure, without even getting into the goods and services provided, is quite obviously looking at the whole thing one-eyed and can be easily corrected

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, for the purposes im satisfied the point is well made.

The money spent by govt is an input into the economy and many, many small, medium and large suppliers benefit through that spending

If we want to start getting into where money and wealth is generated, thats fine- i dont tbh

But govt raises legitimate income through taxation and like any income, most of it is spent elsewhere in the business of carrying out its various goals and aims

A business raises income through charging for goods and services and spends that income, generating wealth in a number of different ways

Its all, believe it or not, good for an economy, really.

But anyone seeing taxation as a black whole and govt spending as this big minus figure, without even getting into the goods and services provided, is quite obviously looking at the whole thing one-eyed and can be easily corrected

The bit missing from your equation is:

GDP =

Without it, the equation you quoted has no result nor meaning. The “G” is Government spending, that however covers a multitude and is not restricted to the PS. Government spending for the purposes of calculating GDP does not equate to the PS as an enterprise generating revenue.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Agreed, Government spending contributes to GDP, but how that equates to the Public Service generating revenue is a stretch. A functioning PS is absolutely necessary, but protecting the PS from reform which includes job losses and pay reform is not. I do not want to see Government spending cut, but it may be necessary if the money isn’t there to spend. Personally I find the idea that a local planning officer who zones land/approves planning takes credit for generating revenue after someone else does the graft and provides the finance a bit absurd.

the public sector enables the private sector to operate. You can't have one without the other, without damaging the country or people.

(I dont know any planning officer who'd take credit for zoning land, but a planning officer is part of a planning process, that ensures a balance between sustainable development and private property rights, and the public good, but I suspect you know this was the point, rather than the straw man! )

Don't disagree re reform in certain services.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

I assume hes asking who runs that system.

Exactly!

A functioning economy is not all about who generates revenue.