Public service pay cut?

Dav010

Treppen wrote: »

I'm not surprised you're in the public service if you can't see that the public service does not generate any revenue for the country. It costs money.

What, you think Nurses should work for free ?

BTW where do public sector wages go at the end of the day?

In my experience it's to pay untrained shoddy tradesmen to come to your house to fleece you, lazy accountants who don't know their job, overpriced services from greedy hoteliers and restrauters, mechanics who haven't a clue etc. etc.

The beauty is, if those professions you list are as bad as you think, don’t use them, get rid of them, can we do that with untrained, lazy, shoddy, overpriced, clueless public servants? No, we can’t.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

The beauty is, if those professions you list are as bad as you think, don’t use them, get rid of them, can we do that with untrained, lazy, shoddy, overpriced public servants? No, we can’t.

Tell ya what, you do your side and I'll do ours

We'll have the country in great shape when we meet again

Thered be a lot less taxpayer money spent if we didn't constantly have to clean up, chase up, prop up and fix up the failures of the private sector

All i have to do is ensure pension reform continues and reinstate pmds, im laughing

Dont fancy your job tho

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m struggling to see where the PS generates revenue in that list. .

I'm struggling to see where private sector businesses protect the security of the state by investigating crimes and arresting people. I know it's not their role and it would be illegal for them to do this, but I'm still hugely outraged that they don't do it.

AndrewJRenko

purifol0 wrote: »

You are right, for the last 10 years the govt has been borrowing money from international markets and using it to pay the massive public pay and pensions bill as the local economy couldn't support it.


So yeah the public sector has us massively in debt! A long way from nothing indeed.

Don't forget the other 75% of public expenditure that is not public sector wages - funny how you decided that all the borrowing was due to wages though.

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tell ya what, you do your side and I'll do ours

We'll have the country in great shape when we meet again

Thered be a lot less taxpayer money spent if we didn't constantly have to clean up, chase up, prop up and fix up the failures of the private sector

All i have to do is ensure pension reform continues and reinstate pmds, im laughing

Dont fancy your job tho

There is something up with quotation on boards, that is not what I posted.

You do your job, stop whining about pay restoration, threatening a strike which would cause the country to grind to a halt, accept that reform is necessary and that there will be some blood letting in the public sector, as there has been in the private sector and don’t expect pay rises just because you think you deserve them. And we’ll all get on fine.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

The beauty is, if those professions you list are as bad as you think, don’t use them, get rid of them, can we do that with untrained, lazy, shoddy, overpriced, clueless public servants? No, we can’t.

You get to vote on those decisions every five years. Strangely enough, most people seem to disagree with you.

Dav010

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm struggling to see where private sector businesses protect the security of the state by investigating crimes and arresting people. I know it's not their role and it would be illegal for them to do this, but I'm still hugely outraged that they don't do it.

Is that in some way related my post you quoted about revenue, or are we back to the silly over weight in law type analogies?

Dav010

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You get to vote on those decisions every five years. Strangely enough, most people seem to disagree with you.

Where did I get to vote on Public Service reform?

Dav010

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Don't forget the other 75% of public expenditure that is not public sector wages - funny how you decided that all the borrowing was due to wages though.

You’ve made my point, Government expenditure ( the “G” in the equation quoted earlier by snoopsheep) does not equate to Public Service generating revenue. Thanks.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

You do your job, stop whining about pay restoration, threatening a strike which would cause the country to grind to a halt, accept that reform is necessary and that there will be some blood letting in the public sector, as there has been in the private sector and don’t expect pay rises just because you think you deserve them. And we’ll all get on fine.

Quote me pls?

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Quote me pls?

Generalising in the same way you did about cleaning up after the private sector, I didn’t assume you were talking specifically about my business when you quoted and responded to me.

purifol0

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Exactly!

A functioning economy is not all about who generates revenue.

Lol you've gotta be kidding me. You could outsource social welfare to a private sector company. Better yet automate the whole thing. Instead we have an army of unsackable paper pushers, mostly pushing up the costs of running the damn services.

purifol0

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You get to vote on those decisions every five years. Strangely enough, most people seem to disagree with you.

Yeah its a great argument to disallow employees of the govt to vote on the govt! Bit of a conflict of interest, no?


"Vote for me, i'll increase your pay" - pretty much every politician in the last 30 years. Except they usually phrase it like so: "We need to invest more in public services"

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

Yeah its a great argument to disallow employees of the govt to vote on the govt! Bit of a conflict of interest, no?


"Vote for me, i'll increase your pay" - pretty much every politician in the last 30 years. Except they usually phrase it like so: "We need to invest more in public services"

Brilliant

Nobody with an interest in government activities should be eligible to vote in government elections

Thinkingaboutit

blanch152 wrote: »

Is it really possible to cut the pay of nurses in the aftermath of Covid-19?

Yes, I think the increase due in October will be deferred, possibly with a promise of back-payment when the finances allow, and the next deal will not be as generous as previously expected. However, there are many public servants whose rate of pay is still below the 2008 rate - the scope for cuts is therefore limited.

I found after many months (2 yrs total) in hospitals, nurses did little except play with their phones at their stations, while slowly filing some form. Even though I wasn't meant to leave the bed, I had to help myself. I don't think they are deserving of the exaggerated attitudes some have towards them. Most seem lazy with ill paid nurses aides doing nearly all work. All they seemed to do was push a medicine trolley around sometimes.

A lot of lower paid staff still have lower pay than before the boom, and they do most of the work.

purifol0

Deleted User wrote: »

Brilliant

Nobody with an interest in government activities should be eligible to vote in government elections

You aren't doing a great job in countering my argument.
"An interest in govt activities" - yet this is exactly why we made donating large sums to politicians illegal.
Sadly it isn't illegal for politicians to bankrupt the country to give money to pubsec workers to get votes.


Which they did.

purifol0

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm struggling to see where private sector businesses protect the security of the state by investigating crimes and arresting people. I know it's not their role and it would be illegal for them to do this, but I'm still hugely outraged that they don't do it.

Yeah they would but they would be illegal. The private sector could do a hell of a lot, but is hamstrung by a state that wants to keep certain things illegal unless they benefit.



Right this week ESB workers went on strike because the company hired a private sector outfit to do some work for it!

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

Lol you've gotta be kidding me. You could outsource social welfare to a private sector company. Better yet automate the whole thing. Instead we have an army of unsackable paper pushers, mostly pushing up the costs of running the damn services.

All that data in private hands...

Dav010

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

All that data in private hands...

Private companies store data.

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

Yeah its a great argument to disallow employees of the govt to vote on the govt! Bit of a conflict of interest, no?

"Vote for me, i'll increase your pay" - pretty much every politician in the last 30 years. Except they usually phrase it like so: "We need to invest more in public services"

Vote for me I'll increase your pay
Vote for me I'll lower your taxes
Vote for me I'll increase your dole
Vote for me I'll increase expenditure
Vote for me I'll increase public services

Investing more in public services doesn't mean we're just going to pay them more....

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Private companies store data.

Usually what you give them voluntary as part of the service you're purchasing

But social welfare history? employment history? Family info?

Im sure in another breath you'd decry that the banks have too much information on us?

Dav010

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Usually what you give them voluntary as part of the service you're purchasing

But social welfare history? employment history? Family info?

Im sure in another breath you'd decry that the banks have too much information on us?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40083248.html%3ftype=amp

beauf

purifol0 wrote: »

Lol you've gotta be kidding me. You could outsource social welfare to a private sector company. Better yet automate the whole thing. Instead we have an army of unsackable paper pushers, mostly pushing up the costs of running the damn services.

There's lots you can say about public sector projects outsourced to the private sector. Saving money isn't one of them.

SC024

Wanderer78 wrote: »

or i should truly say, decreasing the budget of the health system is dangerous for the health system, and the economy in its entirety

At what point do we reach the stage enough is enough? Can nobody in the HSE be told there's X amount of money make it work & deliver results or resign?

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2019/Documents/Health%20Budget%20Oversight%20and%20Management.pdf
thats just from a quick google search
even pre-covid, waiting lists seem to going the same way as the HSE budget, in some areas no doubt they were doing great work, notwithstanding the whole cervical check saga / disaster which the costs havn't begun to rack up yet.
basically the way I see it, We seem to be firing more & more money at the HSE every year, what are we getting for it ?

Where do we stop ? 30 Billion ? 50 ? 100 ? Just keep firing money at it? At what point is it ok to start asking questions where the fck is the money going?

Vestiapx

Inflation will cut all our pay quietly without drama. Print the money and increase the taxes and let the plebs fight with those they perceive as different.

Any working person who believe that the public sector should get a pay cut needs a lesson in economics.

beauf

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Usually what you give them voluntary as part of the service you're purchasing

But social welfare history? employment history? Family info?

Im sure in another breath you'd decry that the banks have too much information on us?

They could do a deal with Facebook they probably have it already anyway.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

Where did I get to vote on Public Service reform?

In the last general election, and every general election before that.

AndrewJRenko

purifol0 wrote: »

Lol you've gotta be kidding me. You could outsource social welfare to a private sector company. Better yet automate the whole thing. Instead we have an army of unsackable paper pushers, mostly pushing up the costs of running the damn services.

How's that outsourcing and privatisation agenda working out in the UK? Is it £37 billion that they've spent on their tracing system that still isn't working?

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40083248.html%3ftype=amp

Imagine how worse it would be.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

Is that in some way related my post you quoted about revenue, or are we back to the silly over weight in law type analogies?

Yes, that is directly related to your quoted post.

The overweight in law is an anecdote, not an analogy.