Public service pay cut?

beauf

I'm not sure ending up on less money and working more hours would be considered a pay rise anywhere.

The PS is unrealistic in expecting to get that back. That ship has sailed. Likewise if you lost your job for what ever reason the advantage private sector has is mobility. You should move to an area that's boomed since.

So if you are unhapoy in the PS or the private sector, move to the other one.

Wanderer78

beauf wrote:

I'm not sure ending up on less money and working more hours would be considered a pay rise anywhere.

Less money in the economy is not good, it slows economic activities, this includes money coming from both the public and public sectors

beauf wrote:

So if you are unhapoy in the PS or the private sector, move to the other one.

Life isn't as simple as this, particularly if you are in the middle of normal life responsibilities such as meeting mortgage requirements and/or child raring

beauf

Incidentally if there is a pay cut again in the PS they won't be able to sell it like they did the last time as a temporary pay cut. People will know it's permanent and likely to be long lasting. There will likely be freeze on recruitment. So anyone in the PS will know they are stuck they they are for the next 10yrs or so.

Unless they leave of course. Once the economy adjusts after lockdown is likely to to dip but then boom as it recovers. So they will be more opportunities in the private sector than the Public sector. People will vote with their feet especially technical people in demand.

Wanderer78

beauf wrote:

Incidentally if there is a pay cut again in the PS they won't be able to sell it like they did the last time as a temporary pay cut. People will know it's permanent and likely to be long lasting. There will likely be freeze on recruitment. So anyone in the PS will know they are stuck they they are for the next 10yrs or so.

They'd be idiots to cut pay, the economy will need as much money in circulation as possible post covid to get it going again, from both sectors

beauf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Less money in the economy is not good, it slows economic activities, this includes money coming from both the public and public sectors



Life isn't as simple as this, particularly if you are in the middle of normal life responsibilities such as meeting mortgage requirements and/or child raring

At the end of the day it will be about which puts more money in your pocket.

If they reduce pensions and long term earnings in the PS the long term financial security will be gone. So people will leave. They will be replaced with contractors and outsourcing which will be more expensive.

beauf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

They'd be idiots to cut pay, the economy will need as much money in circulation as possible post covid to get it going again, from both sectors

This will be about optics.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

There it is again.

How many private workers have you heard or read, correcting someone that pay rises over the past 13 years were “pay restoration” of the wage cut/job loss they suffered in 2008?

Is the term “pay rise” to be avoided in the PS?

It is to be avoided until it actually happens. First step would be restoration of previous cuts, then we can definitely start talking about pay rises. Can't wait.

Dav010

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It is to be avoided until it actually happens. First step would be restoration of previous cuts, then we can definitely start talking about pay rises. Can't wait.

Again, where else would you hear this drivel? Do private sector workers say they want pre-2008 wage levels before they count pay increases as a pay rise? No they don’t. Pre 2008 is gone, move on with your life, a hell of a lot of private sector workers had pay cut, lost jobs, had to emigrate, you hear them bleating about pay “restoration”.

AndrewJRenko

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, where else would you hear this drivel? Do private sector workers say they want pre-2008 wage levels before they count pay increases as a pay rise? No they don’t. Pre 2008 is gone, move on with your life, a hell of a lot of private sector workers had pay cut, lost jobs, had to emigrate, you hear them bleating about pay “restoration”.

Private sector workers average industrial wage are already ahead of their 2009 peak, so that's probably why they're not still banging on about restoration.

Remove the ASC and we'll start talking about the future.

EddieN75

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It is to be avoided until it actually happens. First step would be restoration of previous cuts, then we can definitely start talking about pay rises. Can't wait.

Troika style cuts and holds are coming. There will be no restoration, no rises and no increases. There might be cuts though

Wanderer78

beauf wrote: »

At the end of the day it will be about which puts more money in your pocket.

If they reduce pensions and long term earnings in the PS the long term financial security will be gone. So people will leave. They will be replaced with contractors and outsourcing which will be more expensive.

increasing pay in both the public and private sectors would put more money in peoples pockets, and increase the overall money supply, this gives people more buying power, thus increasing the velocity of the money supply, which is good for the overall economy, increasing overall economic activities, which is good for everyone

beauf wrote: »

This will be about optics.

yup, optics for the blind!

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, where else would you hear this drivel? Do private sector workers say they want pre-2008 wage levels before they count pay increases as a pay rise? No they don’t. Pre 2008 is gone, move on with your life, a hell of a lot of private sector workers had pay cut, lost jobs, had to emigrate, you hear them bleating about pay “restoration”.

they should be, as above, we need to increase the money supply, and fast!

Wanderer78

EddieN75 wrote: »

Troika style cuts and holds are coming. There will be no restoration, no rises and no increases. There might be cuts though

if we reverse to this calamity, we re screwed, theres very little interest in this approach, most have probably accepted it causes more harm than anything

EddieN75

Wanderer78 wrote: »

if we reverse to this calamity, we re screwed, theres very little interest in this approach, most have probably accepted it causes more harm than anything

A levy on public sector pay to be put towards paying off the pandemic payment those in the private sector received.
Public sector never lost a cent and usually it's the private sector paying for the public.
Solidarity

Dav010

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Private sector workers average industrial wage are already ahead of their 2009 peak, so that's probably why they're not still banging on about restoration.

Remove the ASC and we'll start talking about the future.

No one said there has to be equivalency, if there was, private sector jobs would be as secure as PS. Did a private worker refer to any of those pay rises as “restoration”?

JimmyVik

Rumors now of early retirement going to be offered to those over 50 in the PS.
Wonder what the deal will look like for them.

Wanderer78

EddieN75 wrote: »

A levy on public sector pay to be put towards paying off the pandemic payment those in the private sector received.
Public sector never lost a cent and usually it's the private sector paying for the public.
Solidarity

jesus, we really need to get over this nonsense, we do not need to pay down the deficit, it just needs to be serviced, and serviceable, the deficit is just the public entity of the money supply, by not running one, we become overly reliant on the private sector money supply, credit, in order to expand and grow our economy, creating a credit fueled boom

Scoundrel

EddieN75 wrote: »

A levy on public sector pay to be put towards paying off the pandemic payment those in the private sector received.
Public sector never lost a cent and usually it's the private sector paying for the public.
Solidarity

Increased tax on all private sector workers and employers badly needed to pay back the 350 they've all being sponging off the public purse for the last year not to mention all the various supports all these greedy employers and business have been sponging for the last year.

EddieN75

Scoundrel wrote: »

Increased tax on all private sector workers and employers badly needed to pay back the 350 they've all being sponging off the public purse for the last year not to mention all the various supports all these greedy employers and business have been sponging for the last year.

"Sponging off the public purse" . Looks like we have come full circle.

Without the private sector there is no public purse

Scoundrel

EddieN75 wrote: »

"Sponging off the public purse" . Looks like we have come full circle.

Without the private sector there is no public purse

Yes the private sector is truly amazing all great when things are going well the second they hit a bump in the road the begging hand comes out.

The laziness, greed and lack of innovation within the private sector is going to destroy the Irish economy once again just like in did in 2008.

EddieN75

Scoundrel wrote: »

The laziness, greed and lack of innovation.

One other poster said private sector were sponging off the public purse.

We are using the same insults towards both sectors. This is pointless

Hotblack Desiato

Dav010 wrote: »

Teachers, cops, nurses, clerical staff didn’t take out mortgages for overpriced houses, some still in negative equity?

Are you suggesting public servants who kept their jobs defaulted on their loans? Seems very unlikely.

Anyway, behind every bad borrower is a bad lender

bobbysands81

EddieN75 wrote: »

"Sponging off the public purse" . Looks like we have come full circle.

Without the private sector there is no public purse

A proper functioning private sector would mean no public sector is required.

Both need each other.

Dav010

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Are you suggesting public servants who kept their jobs defaulted on their loans? Seems very unlikely.

Anyway, behind every bad borrower is a bad lender

Are you suggesting some PSs didn’t participate in the same frenzy to buy over priced properties, and none have defaulted? Seems very unlikely.

But I do take your point, the enormous benefit of having such job security meant the PS were insulated somewhat from the stresses of mortgage repayments.

Wanderer78

bobbysands81 wrote:

A proper functioning private sector would mean no public sector is required.

Show me a country that has done this successfully? Its a myth!

sgsdfsdfsd

JimmyVik wrote: »

Rumors now of early retirement going to be offered to those over 50 in the PS.
Wonder what the deal will look like for them.

Where did you hear this? In the past they have done this, on basis that it is cost neutral in the short to medium term, but hadn't heard it talked about in years. Hard to predict how many people would go for it (3 weeks pay per year service I think) and give up a permanent job in these times.

RGARDINR

sgsdfsdfsd wrote: »

Where did you hear this? In the past they have done this, on basis that it is cost neutral in the short to medium term, but hadn't heard it talked about in years. Hard to predict how many people would go for it (3 weeks pay per year service I think) and give up a permanent job in these times.

Wonder will they offer the 3 year career break again as they did about 10 years ago if I remember right. I know was 3 years and then people had to wait more or less to the 4 years and didn't get paid last year. Just more some people might go for it and save a few euro for the exchequer.

JimmyVik

sgsdfsdfsd wrote: »

Where did you hear this? In the past they have done this, on basis that it is cost neutral in the short to medium term, but hadn't heard it talked about in years. Hard to predict how many people would go for it (3 weeks pay per year service I think) and give up a permanent job in these times.

Just heard it from a few people I know in the PS over the last few days.
They say there is a lot of chatter going on about it.
Saw it mentioned elsewhere on boards yesterday too.
I think its supposed to be early retirement for anyone over 50 or something like that.

Wanderer78

RGARDINR wrote: »

Wonder will they offer the 3 year career break again as they did about 10 years ago if I remember right. I know was 3 years and then people had to wait more or less to the 4 years and didn't get paid last year. Just more some people might go for it and save a few euro for the exchequer.

...and potentially reduce the public money supply!

SouthWesterly

bobbysands81 wrote: »

A proper functioning private sector would mean no public sector is required.

Both need each other.

So we won't need gardai, firemen, nurses and prison officers or DSP as no one will be unemployed or sick.

When will we have this utopia?

EddieN75

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...and potentially reduce the public money supply!

You sound like the number 1 promoter of inflation. Can't have people saving money, make it lose its value. Spend spend spend debt debt debt