Public service pay cut?

fliball123

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im private sector and the bank are throwing money at me.
The seem to like that I have come to like my substantial bonus every year.
Plus the commuter ticket that they pay for for me. I never thought a bank would be interested in knowing about this.

Dont know if I could give that kind of stuff up to go to the public sector.

Well I can tell you this they are not throwing money at everyone. There is a thread on here (linked below) and it goes through the challenges that people are having trying to get a mortgage. Also have you tried to draw down a mortgage as approval in principal is now no longer deemed useful in anyway now as the banks throw these out like confetti, its when you start the process of draw down that people seem to be getting refused by the banks.



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058047890

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Are IBM 240 Billion in debt and borrowing 17 Billion this year (or 3 years ago) to keep the lights on? See how this plays out in the private sector when the company is this badly off financially.

Yeah mad that a company who are always reporting losses, 65.1b in debt, managed to give staff a severance package of close to 100,000 only to hire them back again just over two years later on better pay and conditions.

fliball123

DubInMeath wrote: »

Yeah mad that a company who are always reporting losses managed to give staff a severance package of close to 100,000 only to hire them back again just over two years later on better pay and conditions.

Where are the losses

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/revenue

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Where are the losses

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/revenue

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-21/ibm-revenue-misses-estimates-showing-continuing-cloud-struggles

fliball123

DubInMeath wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-21/ibm-revenue-misses-estimates-showing-continuing-cloud-struggles

profits and sales are falling but they are still in profit last 3 years over 70Billion and 17Billion in the last quater. So once again where are the losses?

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Are IBM 240 Billion in debt and borrowing 17 Billion this year (or 3 years ago) to keep the lights on? See how this plays out in the private sector when the company is this badly off financially.

Public services are not ever meant to be a profit generating maching.



It's why our bus and train infrastructure is so bad. Trying to squeeze profit out of a service which should be supporting the entire population is a non runner.



Intel are in free fall and their entire top layer should have been replaced. They sat on old tech and assumed that competition was years behind. They've been completely blown out of the water by AMD and didn't learn a thing from mobile processor fiasco, with Apple.

Even their server side is taking hits.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

Public services are not ever meant to be a profit generating maching.



It's why our bus and train infrastructure is so bad. Trying to squeeze profit out of a service which should be supporting the entire population is a non runner.



Intel are in free fall and their entire top layer should have been replaced. They sat on old tech and assumed that competition was years behind. They've been completely blown out of the water by AMD and didn't learn a thing from mobile processor fiasco, with Apple.

Even their server side is taking hits.

I never said they were supposed to turn a profit but when there is proof that they are paid 33% more than the private sector and our nearest neighbor has the private sector .3% ahead of their public sector in the UK. Throw in our debt and deficit the argument I am making is that we should not be giving pay rises this year or next year until we are out of the woods with covid and the public purse is not in need over 17Billion+ a year to match our current spend.

Also Intel regardless of losing profits, revenues or shares they still turned a profit of over 70Billion for the last 3 years and over 19billion in the first quater this year

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/INTC/intel/revenue

blanch152

Geuze wrote: »

I am not familiar with this July pay restoration.

I saw something in the news about TD pay, out of sync with the dates of the PS pay changes. I was confused.

I think what is happening here refers only to high earners?

Yes, those over €70k have yet to benefit from full pay restoration. Some will get that restoration in July, others next year, some 14 years after the pay cuts were imposed.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

profits and sales are falling but they are still in profit last 3 years over 70Billion and 17Billion in the last quater. So once again where are the losses?

I don't think you understand a loss, when their profits are slashed in half for last year, and have been declining for the last ten years along with their share price, leaving them just over 61 billion in debt.

fliball123

DubInMeath wrote: »

I don't think you understand a loss, when their profits are slashed in half for last year, and have been declining for the last ten years along with their share price, leaving them just over 61 billion in debt.

I dont think you do. They posted a profit as in they take in more than they pay out of over 70Billion in the last 3 years and over 17Billion in the first quater this year. How can you spin that as a loss? The amount of profit is down that is all. The info is all there for you that I gave you. They didnt lose half their profits. Look at the link. Here I will copy and paste it

Intel revenue for the quarter ending March 31, 2021 was $19.673B, a 0.78% decline year-over-year.
Intel revenue for the twelve months ending March 31, 2021 was $77.712B, a 2.61% increase year-over-year.
Intel annual revenue for 2020 was $77.867B, a 8.2% increase from 2019.
Intel annual revenue for 2019 was $71.965B, a 1.58% increase from 2018.
Intel annual revenue for 2018 was $70.848B, a 12.89% increase from 2017.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

I dont think you do. They posted a profit as in they take in more than they pay out of over 70Billion in the last 3 years and over 17Billion in the first quater this year. How can you spin that as a loss? The amount of profit is down that is all. The info is all there for you that I gave you. They didnt lose half their profits. Look at the link. Here I will copy and paste it

Intel revenue for the quarter ending March 31, 2021 was $19.673B, a 0.78% decline year-over-year.
Intel revenue for the twelve months ending March 31, 2021 was $77.712B, a 2.61% increase year-over-year.
Intel annual revenue for 2020 was $77.867B, a 8.2% increase from 2019.
Intel annual revenue for 2019 was $71.965B, a 1.58% increase from 2018.
Intel annual revenue for 2018 was $70.848B, a 12.89% increase from 2017.

Your mixing up who you are arguing with.
IBM have seen market share, profits and share price decline for the last ten years, possibly longer, a decline in profits, share price and market share is a loss
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2021/03/16/avoid-ibm-stock---its-fighting-the-future/

Work in the HSE, is the public sector 1% payrise in October 2021 applicable to those who work in the HSE?

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

I never said they were supposed to turn a profit but when there is proof that they are paid 33% more than the private sector and our nearest neighbor has the private sector .3% ahead of their public sector in the UK. Throw in our debt and deficit the argument I am making is that we should not be giving pay rises this year or next year until we are out of the woods with covid and the public purse is not in need over 17Billion+ a year to match our current spend.

Also Intel regardless of losing profits, revenues or shares they still turned a profit of over 70Billion for the last 3 years and over 19billion in the first quater this year

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/INTC/intel/revenue

Well this PS worker is paid 30% less than equivalent private role. No share options, no bonuses, no healthcare etc etc.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

I never said they were supposed to turn a profit but when there is proof that they are paid 33% more than the private sector and our nearest neighbor has the private sector .3% ahead of their public sector in the UK. Throw in our debt and deficit the argument I am making is that we should not be giving pay rises this year or next year until we are out of the woods with covid and the public purse is not in need over 17Billion+ a year to match our current spend.

Also Intel regardless of losing profits, revenues or shares they still turned a profit of over 70Billion for the last 3 years and over 19billion in the first quater this year

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/INTC/intel/revenue

To investors a constant decline on profit is an alarm, vs a loss making company on the way up (see TESLA)

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Work in the HSE, is the public sector 1% payrise in October 2021 applicable to those who work in the HSE?

Everyone gets 1% annual increase. Unless that 1% is smaller than €500, in which case you get €500.

Anyone over €50k gets 1% and if your wages are under €50,000 you get €500.

This is my understanding of it, I'm open to correction.

rossie1977

fliball123 wrote: »

Where are the losses

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/revenue

IBM have $65 billion in debt.

A country's debt is irrelevant unless they somehow cannot afford to service that debt which there is no danger of happening to Ireland. Presently Ireland paying just under €4b annually to service debt.

Venezuela had only ~20% national debt up until very recently and their economy collapsed.

fliball123

DubInMeath wrote: »

Your mixing up who you are arguing with.
IBM have seen market share, profits and share price decline for the last ten years, possibly longer, a decline in profits, share price and market share is a loss
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2021/03/16/avoid-ibm-stock---its-fighting-the-future/

and yet their gross profit is still up over 30Billion in the last 3 years and still made over 8billion in gross profit in the first quater this year. Sorry I put in the revenue in the last one. Just as an aside I am not arguing if their amount of profit is up or down I am arguing that they are still well in profit they dont need to borrow money to keep the show going. I know they have a debt of 60odd billion sure if they really wanted they could wipe that out in 2 years.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/IBM/ibm/gross-profit

fliball123

rossie1977 wrote: »

IBM have $65 billion in debt.

A country's debt is irrelevant unless they somehow cannot afford to service that debt which there is no danger of happening to Ireland. Presently Ireland paying just under €4b annually to service debt.

Venezuela had only ~20% national debt up until very recently and their economy collapsed.

Sorry its nearly 5 billion we paid out in 2020 this figure will be up even more this year. The problem is we borrowed 17Billion so we are in effect borrowing to pay back the interest on our borrowings how long do you think this can be sustained and before we get the "debt is irrelevant" argument remember we are relying on others to allow us borrow from them, we are currently borrowing at historically low interest rates which can only rise from here on out. So what happens at rollover time in the future with a higher interest rate?

So just to put some perspective on it we are more in debt and have as much of a deficit currently than we did in 2008 and guess what the people lending to use told us to cop on or we would not be able to borrow back then. If our economy does not take off like a rocket and remain gangbusters for at least 3/4 years there will have to be cuts. The current paradigm of borrowing to pay back interest is not going to end well.

IN 2018 before covid we were the third most indebted nation in the world
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ireland-banks-debt-paschal-donohoe-13187329

Now add in the extra debt and deficit, then on top of that there is already plans in place from the OCED which will wipe around 6 billion from our corporation tax annually.

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

Plenty of others would fill your boots if you hadn't the job. Don't flatter yourself.

What's your own occupation ?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pay-bumps-on-the-way-for-public-sector-who-showed-world-class-response-to-the-covid-emergency-40423236.html

Pay rises, not cuts. Good to see those carrying the weight and responsibility of the nation's essential services being rewarded.

NovemberWren

Deleted User wrote: »

Everyone gets 1% annual increase. Unless that 1% is smaller than €500, in which case you get €500.

Anyone over €50k gets 1% and if your wages are under €50,000 you get €500.

This is my understanding of it, I'm open to correction.

yeah. that sounds about correct to me. That everyone receives the "Very humble, 1%".
The "1" sounds so very humble. It's when the "%" is added that you might begin to wonder, what exactly is the change. Except maybe some very minor national inflation.
So, the humble "1%" applied to E70,000 is an added E700.00,... and so on.

salonfire

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pay-bumps-on-the-way-for-public-sector-who-showed-world-class-response-to-the-covid-emergency-40423236.html

Pay rises, not cuts. Good to see those carrying the weight and responsibility of the nation's essential services being rewarded.

Good to see the public sector limited to at or below inflation rises. Cuts by stealth. Let's hope this trend continues.

NovemberWren

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pay-bumps-on-the-way-for-public-sector-who-showed-world-class-response-to-the-covid-emergency-40423236.html

Pay rises, not cuts. Good to see those carrying the weight and responsibility of the nation's essential services being rewarded.

"carrying the weight and responsibility" - really?

Have you tried to contact a Local Authority employee lately? by email, email, email and then by, email. Have they ever even answered anyone? And if this Covid is ever over, in some future time; their comfortable excuse will be - that they are "too" busy.

They hug on to the Covid excuse, when all around them private building contractors are rapidly building private projects.

Is it glaringly obvious now, that they are mainly a cohort of Bought Votes.

gmisk

NovemberWren wrote: »

"carrying the weight and responsibility" - really?

Have you tried to contact a Local Authority employee lately? by email, email, email and then by, email. Have they ever even answered anyone? And if this Covid is ever over, in some future time; their comfortable excuse will be - that they are "too" busy.

They hug on to the Covid excuse, when all around them private building contractors are rapidly building private projects.

Is it glaringly obvious now, that they are mainly a cohort of Bought Votes.

I contact Dublin county council, waste management etc they always reply within a really short amount of time. Who are you trying to contact?

NovemberWren

gmisk wrote: »

I contact Dublin county council, waste management etc they always reply within a really short amount of time. Who are you trying to contact?

a swamp Local Authority outside of BAC.
A Fine Gael Mafia town, and their loving partners Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail.

gmisk

NovemberWren wrote: »

a swamp Local Authority outside of BAC.
A Fine Gael Mafia town, and their loving partners Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail.

Ah I kind of guessed getting a sensible reply would be unlikely...

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote: »

Good to see the public sector limited to at or below inflation rises. Cuts by stealth. Let's hope this trend continues.

...so you would like to effectively reduce the money supply and the velocity of the money supply?

Treppen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...so you would like to effectively reduce the money supply and the velocity of the money supply?

Some private sector posters obviously are well off enough not to care... But like to beat the public sector bashing drum no matter what.
I think the begrudgery comes from some past experience with another person who worked in the public sector and the jealousy or anger hasn't been dealt with.

Ask him what his own job is, was.
How much pension they put in.
What their pension is.
Their education / qualifications.
Salary progression.

Always avoiding, but always at the window peering at the dinner plate, giving out that the food is too much.

Wanderer78

Treppen wrote: »

Some private sector obviously are well off enough not to care... But like to beat the public sector bashing drum no matter what.

Until we ask him what his own job is, was.
How much pension they put in.
What their pension is.
Their education / qualifications.
Salary progression.

Always avoiding, but always at the window peering at the dinner plate.

...reducing the money supply and its velocity is bad for everyone, it reduces economic activities and slows growth

Treppen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...reducing the money supply and its velocity is bad for everyone, it reduces economic activities and slows growth

Totally agree, the government know this and I think have learned from last times cutbacks.
Sure , I kept my job, as I serve the public and it's needed. But I also stopped spending, mostly in private sector, coffees, lunches, restaurants, home improvements etc.
I think it's called biting off your nose to spite your face. Private sector demands cutbacks, then grand, us public sector are generally a frugal bunch, we can control our spending accordingly.