Public service pay cut?

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

I agree with much that you say.

And so do the Fiscal Council.


https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0525/1223841-irish-fiscal-advisory-council/


https://www.fiscalcouncil.ie/fiscal-assessment-report-may-2021/


One quote:

"However, the Government’s medium-term forecasts are
poorly founded. The Government’s spending projections
for later years assume current spending grows by 3.5 per
cent every year. This does not reflect the full cost of price
inflation and ageing on spending. The forecasts for
government investment are much higher than in the
Government’s capital plan. Income tax receipts are forecast
to grow unrealistically fast, given plans to raise tax credits
and bands. And there is little or no detail on the other
policy costs beyond 2021. This includes the major
Sláintecare reforms to healthcare."

Not to mention the crazy sum of money Sinn Fein will be borrowing to sort out the housing crisis or the new OCED tax reforms.

Hotblack Desiato

salonfire wrote: »

For people on the older schemes, it is very much gold plated. Some don't even have to pay the full PRSI rate.

The class A employee contribution was cut a few years back but not the others, the max EE rates on A, B, C and D classes are all 4%. Staff on modified PRSI pay the same but don't get optical and dental benefit like all other workers, and won't get household benefits package when they retire like all other workers who qualify for the contributory old age pension.

Geuze

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The class A employee contribution was cut a few years back but not the others, the max EE rates on A, B, C and D classes are all 4%. Staff on modified PRSI pay the same but don't get optical and dental benefit like all other workers, and won't get household benefits package when they retire like all other workers who qualify for the contributory old age pension.

I thought class D pay 0.90%?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/f88179-prsi-class-d-rates/

daithi7

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.fiscalcouncil.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Non-Technical-Summary.pdf

The non-technical summary says:

"Large permanent increases in spending, unrelated to Covid-19, were not prudent. Budget 2021 included large
permanent increases in spending of at least €5.4 billion. There was no long-term funding set out for this. It means
that much of the “fiscal space” that growth in the economy would have provided by 2025 is already used up."

And then people say that the State underspends!!!!

I think this is worth saying again, when a country is borrowing to fund current expenditure it should never increase public pay & pensions. It should actually be illegal imho.

This happened in the 80s, 00s and now, and it always ends the same way I.e. in a financial crisis, and horrible reactive cuts to real services.

This government & the public sector unions are setting the country up for another big crash. Only 10 out of 50 years of repaying by us and our children for the last one. This is bonkers!!!

BonnieSituation

daithi7 wrote: »

I think this is worth saying again, when a country is borrowing to fund current expenditure it should never increase public pay & pensions. It should actually be illegal imho.

This happened in the 80s, 00s and now, and it always ends the same way I.e. in a financial crisis, and horrible reactive cuts to real services.

This government & the public sector unions are setting the country up for another big crash. Only 10 out of 50 years of repaying by us and our children for the last one. This is bonkers!!!

I'm so sick of the public sector causing all these financial meltdowns.

Vizzy

Geuze wrote: »

I thought class D pay 0.90%?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/f88179-prsi-class-d-rates/

You are correct - PRSI is 0.90%


But the overall contribution is 5% of salary for Superannuation and a further 1.5% for Widows & Orphans on top of the PRSI.


There is no entitlement to Medical Benefits/Eyetests/Dental etc.

SouthWesterly

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm so sick of the public sector causing all these financial meltdowns.

Perhaps we should privatise the public sector and pay everyone bonuses for contributing to the financial crash.
Of course we'll have to cut services so as to boost departmental profits and well cut staff and close down places of operation to ensure the shareholders get their dividends.

Dav010

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Perhaps we should privatise the public sector and pay everyone bonuses for contributing to the financial crash.
Of course we'll have to cut services so as to boost departmental profits and well cut staff and close down places of operation to ensure the shareholders get their dividends.

Interesting idea. Might help to streamline services, improve efficiency, get rid of some of the dead wood etc. And don’t kid yourself, public servants were there in line buying houses they couldn’t afford, contributing to the last financial crash.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

For people on the older schemes, it is very much gold plated. Some don't even have to pay the full PRSI rate.

Gold plated? Dependant on the whims of any future government doesn't meet my definition of gold plated.

salonfire

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Gold plated? Dependant on the whims of any future government doesn't meet my definition of gold plated.

Yeah cos there's no way the Government would sink the country in billions of debt while maintaining these payments or anything!

Geuze

fliball123 wrote: »

So do these figures include the nearly half a million private sector employees forced onto PUP payments over the last 12/18 months?

I reckon when you bring their pay into the equation as a whole on average the private sector are still behind in pay. Before i get "but they were not working and part of the people claiming welfare", I think the fact that not one public sector employee was put on PUP means they should be included in this debate as they were forced to stop working.

Here is some info on earnings growth during the pandemic:

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2021/05/26/the-impact-of-covid-19-income-supports-on-earnings/

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Interesting idea. Might help to streamline services, improve efficiency, get rid of some of the dead wood etc. And don’t kid yourself, public servants were there in line buying houses they couldn’t afford, contributing to the last financial crash.

Public servants should now not be able to buy houses until everyone else is housed

Public servants should get paid while we run a deficit


Lads ye get better and better i swear to god. Such expertise.

Just one efficiency suggestion- if ye turned your barstools upside down ye'd fit three more on each

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

Here is some info on earnings growth during the pandemic:

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2021/05/26/the-impact-of-covid-19-income-supports-on-earnings/

I have no doubt some in the private sector got payrises, some stood still. I mean the pharma and IT sectors are out the door busy with the pandemic so there would of been growth here. But as pointed out when 2/5ths of the sector are put on PUP payments it negates any growth at all and would actually cause a drag on any extra income made due to the PUP payments. You cannot take 2/5ths of one sector out of an equation and say they all got payrises.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

Public servants should now not be able to buy houses until everyone else is housed

Public servants should get paid while we run a deficit


Lads ye get better and better i swear to god. Such expertise.

Just one efficiency suggestion- if ye turned your barstools upside down ye'd fit three more on each

I think most people are asking that they dont get payrises while we are borrowing 17Billion and while there is so much uncertainty.

georgewickstaff

fliball123 wrote: »

I think most people are asking that they dont get payrises while we are borrowing 17Billion and while there is so much uncertainty.

Pay restoration. Not payrises.

fliball123

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Pay restoration. Not payrises.

Depends on how far you go back?

If your not going back its pay rise
If your going back 10 years its restoration - cuts
If your go back 15 years its a pay rise - bench marking (twice)

Hows about we do this we give you back the money for cuts (without the pension levy as that was an overdue contribution to a defined benefit) and we will also give you all the money back that you should of earned over the last 10/12 years. Then we will take away what was given in bench marking as well as what you made over the last 17/19 years out of bench marking. How does that suit?

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Public servants should now not be able to buy houses until everyone else is housed

Public servants should get paid while we run a deficit


Lads ye get better and better i swear to god. Such expertise.

Just one efficiency suggestion- if ye turned your barstools upside down ye'd fit three more on each

For some reason, a few PSs think the last crash was caused by the private sector. My response to that, is that we are all part of the same hypocrisy, PSs also borrowed to buy expensive houses.

It helps with context when you read the posts being replied to.

Though I hope the last sentence in your post was sarcasm, just in case, you should really see someone about that barstool fetish. It’s kinda creepy.

Dav010

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Pay restoration. Not payrises.

How many private sector workers have referred to pay rises as restoration over the past 10 years.

Is “pay rise” banned in PS vocabulary?

fliball123

Dav010 wrote: »

How many private sector workers have referred to pay rises as restoration over the past 10 years.

Is “pay rise” banned in PS vocabulary?

Yeah also where is the reversal of the supposed temporary USC tax?

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

I think most people are asking that they dont get payrises while we are borrowing 17Billion and while there is so much uncertainty.

You're not a spokesperson for "most people".

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just one efficiency suggestion- if ye turned your barstools upside down ye'd fit three more on each

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're not a spokesperson for "most people".

if you asked anyone working in the private sector who have no one related working in the public sector they would be of the same mind. Asking for pay rises while 17 billion in debt and so much uncertainty is bonkers.

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

if you asked anyone working in the private sector who have no one related working in the public sector they would be of the same mind. Asking for pay rises while 17 billion in debt and so much uncertainty is bonkers.

You're not a spokesperson for "anyone working in the private sector who have no one related working in the public sector".

You speak for yourself, no more and no less.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

Yeah cos there's no way the Government would sink the country in billions of debt while maintaining these payments or anything!

If you want to call it "gold plated" then it needs to come with an irrevocable guarantee.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

if you asked anyone working in the private sector who have no one related working in the public sector they would be of the same mind. Asking for pay rises while 17 billion in debt and so much uncertainty is bonkers.

I work in the private sector and, while I have friends and family in the ps, I don't see it as a problem. People who work in companies such as IBM who have seen it sales and share price fall for years get pay rises.

However they and I are to busy working to be posting about it for hours each day on here.

Dav010

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The joy that the mention of an upturned stool can bring to some.

fliball123

DubInMeath wrote: »

I work in the private sector and, while I have friends and family in the ps, I don't see it as a problem. People who work in companies such as IBM who have seen it sales and share price fall for years get pay rises.

However they and I are to busy working to be posting about it for hours each day on here.

The difference is IBM made over 73Billion in profit last year regardless of profit being down or share/sale prices being down. They made a healthy profit, you cant say that about the public sectors employer now can we.

https://newsroom.ibm.com/2021-01-21-IBM-Reports-2020-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-Results#:~:text=Net%20income%20from%20continuing%20operations,for%20the%20full%20year%202019.

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

The difference is IBM made over 73Billion in profit last year regardless of profit being down or share/sale prices being down. They made a healthy profit, you cant say that about the public sectors employer now can we.

https://newsroom.ibm.com/2021-01-21-IBM-Reports-2020-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-Results#:~:text=Net%20income%20from%20continuing%20operations,for%20the%20full%20year%202019.

No, we can't say that about the public sector because the public sector isn't a commercial business.

We can't say that my daughter's Camogie team won the Giro d'Italia cycling race.

That's doesn't make them a bad Camogie team.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

The difference is IBM made over 73Billion in profit last year regardless of profit being down or share/sale prices being down. They made a healthy profit, you cant say that about the public sectors employer now can we.

https://newsroom.ibm.com/2021-01-21-IBM-Reports-2020-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-Results#:~:text=Net%20income%20from%20continuing%20operations,for%20the%20full%20year%202019.

Not just IBM where it happens as explained to you before.
Anyway, 15 minutes left on my first break for the day so will be lunch time before I get back, as some of us have to do some actual work so others can spend all day on here complaining about public service pay and the taxes that they have to pay.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're not a spokesperson for "anyone working in the private sector who have no one related working in the public sector".

You speak for yourself, no more and no less.

I wish he would go and do a days work instead of obsessing over things he has no control over.