Public service pay cut?

addaword

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what was the equivalent jump in that time ....

Well, in that period, 2001 to 2006, when public sector wages went up 59%, the average industrial wage only went up 18%.

Source:finfacts.ie

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

Are the public sector entrance exams very difficult?

Reasonable but getting high enough on the list is the issue. You can pass but if you just scrape by you will probably by so far down the list that they won't get to you

addaword

addaword wrote: »

Well, in that period, 2001 to 2006, when public sector wages went up 59%, the average industrial wage only went up 18%.

Source:finfacts.ie

You weren't asked the average industrial wage though. You weren't asked that because as had already been pointed out, that includes part-time staff in burgerking which balanced the good part of the college educated professional.

How much did educated staff go up and what was the comparison between the two in 2000? What an accountant on? Architect? Solicitor? Someone with a business degree in an office?

Compare accurately. I should be paid more than when I worked part-time during my college years.

AndrewJRenko

mikeym wrote: »

I know plenty of them.

And they are on golden contracts which mean they cant be fcuked out until retirement age.

There are no 'golden contracts'. Everyone has the same contract, and contracts are terminated for people who are unwilling or unable to do their job.

thomasdylan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There are no 'golden contracts'. Everyone has the same contract, and contracts are terminated for people who are unwilling or unable to do their job.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/just-55-of-37000-civil-servants-have-lost-their-jobs-in-the-past-decade-35739888.html

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There are no 'golden contracts'. Everyone has the same contract, and contracts are terminated for people who are unwilling or unable to do their job.

When did the last teacher, for example, have their contract terminated?

Many people have come across teachers totally unwilling to teach, because of laziness, alcoholism or whatever, and yet who keep their job.

addaword

addaword wrote: »

When did the last teacher, for example, have their contract terminated?

When was the last lab technician?

And I'm still waiting for you to backup your 'top 5' comment. Any evidence of that yet?

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/just-55-of-37000-civil-servants-have-lost-their-jobs-in-the-past-decade-35739888.html

So, it does happen and the public sector is not heavy with useless staff.

That's a good thing isn't it?

addaword

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

When was the last lab technician?

In the civil service close to 0% lose their jobs.

addaword

addaword wrote: »

Well, in that period, 2001 to 2006, when public sector wages went up 59%, the average industrial wage only went up 18%.

Source:finfacts.ie

you missed all the significant parts of my question.

youd struggle to get one of the clerical roles at that craic

addaword

addaword wrote: »

In the civil service close to 0% lose their jobs.

Any actual evidence of anything you claim? When was the last lab tech dismissed from a pharmaceutical company for negligence?

Oh and still waiting for proof of the 'top 5 in the world' rubbish. Got anything yet?

Still also waiting on stats on wages on the private sector for third level educated full-time workers.

Stop hiding behind baseless rants and skewed numbers.

thomasdylan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So, it does happen and the public sector is not heavy with useless staff.

That's a good thing isn't it?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/we-dont-have-the-tools-to-sack-under-performing-civil-servants-senior-civil-servant-38752429.html

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/we-dont-have-the-tools-to-sack-under-performing-civil-servants-senior-civil-servant-38752429.html

Read your own article. He's talking about introducing mechanisms to pay off staff.

You produced an indo article that showed they can sack civil servants but now you claim this one says they can't. Which is it?

Montage of Feck

Fred Cryton wrote: »

No no, silly. This is Ireland. In Ireland, we don't "cut" anything. We instead identify the narrow band of hard working middle income private sector higher rate taxpayers (around 20% of the population), and we simply increase their taxes yet again. More welfare and more public sector pay, sure why not? Wouldn't it be cruel not to? Just identify those people, tax them once again, and then pat yourself on the back for reducing "inequality".

It's worse than communism, lol

thomasdylan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Read your own article. He's talking about introducing mechanisms to pay off staff.

You produced an indo article that showed they can sack civil servants but now you claim this one says they can't. Which is it?

A stupid question. The first article showed a tiny fraction of civil servants had been sacked over the previous decade. And it is a tiny fraction isn't it?

The second article has a senior civil servant saying that there arent methods in place to get rid of underperforming workers, there aren't short term contracts which won't be renewed if targets aren't met and there aren't adequate ways to address underperformance.

purifol0

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
- Upton Sinclair

This thread (and every prior and subsequent one on the matter) in a single quote.

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

A stupid question. The first article showed a tiny fraction of civil servants had been sacked over the previous decade. And it is a tiny fraction isn't it?

The second article has a senior civil servant saying that there arent methods in place to get rid of underperforming workers, there aren't short term contracts which won't be renewed if targets aren't met and there aren't adequate ways to address underperformance.

Again your debating yourself. Either people were sacked or people can't be sacked. Can't be both,

addaword

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Either people were sacked or people can't be sacked. Can't be both,

Rubbish. A tiny percentage were sacked, showing how difficult it is to sack people.

addaword

addaword wrote: »

Rubbish. A tiny percentage were sacked, showing how difficult it is to sack people.

So it's possible? Dunno how it's rubbish, not my sources.

How's the hunt for the evidence to backup your argument about being to 5 paid in the world coming?

Evidence of private sector lab technician negligence dismissals?

The comparison between full-time college educated staff in the private sector to the public?

Even the comparison between the two before benchmarking maybe?


Coming along nicely I hope

thomasdylan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Again your debating yourself. Either people were sacked or people can't be sacked. Can't be both,

Are you being wilfully obtuse? Please read over my comments so you can get a handle on what I've posted.

People can be sacked, I posted the article showing that and have never said they can't be. It's a tiny percentage of staff who are sacked.

There's not enough being done about public sector underperformance.

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

Are you being wilfully obtuse? Please read over my comments so you can get a handle on what I've posted.

People can be sacked, I posted the article showing that and have never said they can't be. It's a tiny percentage of staff who are sacked.

There's not enough being done about public sector underperformance.

So they can be sacked for underperforming? Grand so. Glad we sorted that out.

Now again, your second article wants a system whereby people in the civil service can be paid off with severance packages for being bad at their jobs. Imagine that, your bad at the job and they pay you to go away. Only in the private sector!

thomasdylan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So they can be sacked for underperforming? Grand so. Glad we sorted that out.

Now again, your second article wants a system whereby people in the civil service can be paid off with severance packages for being bad at their jobs. Imagine that, your bad at the job and they pay you to go away. Only in the private sector!

It took you long enough. You were responding to arguments that weren't made.

Here's an article about poor performance being tackled (or not) in the civil service. I'm a public sector worker BTW.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/only-15-of-civil-service-staff-believe-poor-performance-being-tackled-1.3443684

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

It took you long enough. You were responding to arguments that weren't made.

Here's an article about poor performance being tackled (or not) in the civil service. I'm a public sector worker BTW.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/only-15-of-civil-service-staff-believe-poor-performance-being-tackled-1.3443684

Every single organisation has staff that think their bosses are idiots and the staff around them useless and a waste if time. That's not unique to the public sector.

It also says young people feel the under performance is dealt with and that most staff feel their work is important.

if you're public sector why did you need to ask about the recruitment system?

thomasdylan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Every single organisation has staff that think their bosses are idiots and the staff around them useless and a waste if time. That's not unique to the public sector.

It also says young people feel the under performance is dealt with and that most staff feel their work is important.

if you're public sector why did you need to ask about the recruitment system?

It's not unique to the public sector but the results of that poll are pretty bad.

I work in the HSE. I didn't do any recruitment exams. The question on exams was genuine.

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

It's not unique to the public sector but the results of that poll are pretty bad.

I work in the HSE. I didn't do any recruitment exams. The question on exams was genuine.

Possible but again, most senior staff get disgruntled so it's hard to say how accurate the poll really is. Bitter or genuine grievance?

Interesting. So what's the hse recruitment system? I assumed everyone went through chapter house.

thomasdylan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Possible but again, most senior staff get disgruntled so it's hard to say how accurate the poll really is. Bitter or genuine grievance?

Interesting. So what's the hse recruitment system? I assumed everyone went through chapter house.

I'm medical so my job applications have been marked part on interview, part on experience and part on research and publications.

AndrewJRenko

addaword wrote: »

When did the last teacher, for example, have their contract terminated?

Many people have come across teachers totally unwilling to teach, because of laziness, alcoholism or whatever, and yet who keep their job.

Here's one from last year, but there have probably been other since then.
https://extra.ie/2019/10/30/news/irish-news/teacher-to-be-sentenced-sex-with-student

How many of your many people have made formal complaints to the school or the Teaching Council?

How many of your many people believe everything their kids tell them?

AndrewJRenko

addaword wrote: »

Rubbish. A tiny percentage were sacked, showing how difficult it is to sack people.

A tiny percentage were sacked, showing that the processes for recruiting and managing staff are working for the vast majority.

Sacking isn't a good thing. An organisation that is sacking a lot of staff is doing a bad job at selecting or managing staff.

Tokyo

addaword wrote: »

Many people have come across teachers totally unwilling to teach, because of laziness, alcoholism or whatever, and yet who keep their job.

Mod: @addaword - you were banned from another thread for this kind of lazy generalisation. Keep it up and you'll earn another threadban.

Dylan94

addaword wrote: »

When did the last teacher, for example, have their contract terminated?

Many people have come across teachers totally unwilling to teach, because of laziness, alcoholism or whatever, and yet who keep their job.

The idea that teachers can not be fired is a common misconception. Teachers are actually fired more often than people think.

Teachers are still not fired often enough in my opinion though, the difficulty though with firing them is proving that they are not doing their job properly.

However, while the vast majority of teachers are paid by the government, their employers are actually the individual schools which are technically not state owned or run. It is these private trusts such as educate together, Edmund rice etc and the individual boards of management that fail to act with strength and fire more teachers.

There is a very simple process there to fire teachers, and teachers are fired every year. It is just not discussed often.