Public service pay cut?

fly_agaric

Snow Garden wrote: »

Pay restoration? Do any public sector workers feel that their salaries and allowances during boom years were excessively generous because of Bertie's benchmarking within the context of a false boom

I am one of the Evil Ones (Public sector).

Agree the benchmarking was excessive, but my memory of that time is there was [in hindsight] mad stuff going on across the economy as regards wages and costs (hence the clamour from public servants to get in on the action). I think they were having trouble hiring people as well because of pay rates.

Has been a fair bit of inflation (of everything) since that time so it is not quite a like for like comparison (just looking at the rates of pay back then vs rates of pay now). It is 11 (12?) years ago after all.

Just to clarify, my own position is I don't think any more pay restoration will happen and expect there will be new attempts to cut pay somehow next year.
edit: I suppose nothing is certain though. It obviously depends on how much more damage this crisis will do to the economy, how fast things are to pick up again here & elsewhere in the world as we open up etc.

almostover

fly_agaric wrote: »

I am one of the Evil Ones (Public sector).

Agree the benchmarking was excessive, but my memory of that time is there was [in hindsight] mad stuff going on across the economy as regards wages and costs (hence the clamour from public servants to get in on the action). I think they were having trouble hiring people as well because of pay rates.

Has been a fair bit of inflation (of everything) since that time so it is not quite a like for like comparison (just looking at the rates of pay back then vs rates of pay now). It is 11 (12?) years ago after all.

Just to clarify, my own position is I don't think any more pay restoration will happen and expect there will be new attempts to cut pay somehow next year.
edit: I suppose nothing is certain though. It obviously depends on how much more damage this crisis will do to the economy, how fast things are to pick up again here & elsewhere in the world as we open up etc.

Fair play, finally a realistic viewpoint. Best cases scenario is that pay levels are frozen as they are.

fly_agaric

almostover wrote: »

Fair play, finally a realistic viewpoint. Best cases scenario is that pay levels are frozen as they are.

I think so.
Hard to know what is going to happen re actually cutting pay.
It might not be necessary.

If it is, govt. will likely have a very sticky industrial relations battle on their hands even if economy is in ruins.

Esp. when they try and cut wages in the health service, for guards, and for lower paid end of the public sector while this disease is still around and many are trying to manage an emergency/crisis situation + also being asked to take a pay cut for the "greater good"!

edit: Much and all as some of the public & the media really like the idea, it is hard to segment the public sector into the "good ones"/courageous front line workers who we want paid well and the "baddies" who waste money & should be cut.

HerrKuehn

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not in IT they wouldnt.

IT is such a broad term that it is almost meaningless. You might as well be saying office workers. On one end of the scale you have the guy who installs software and fixes issues on peoples PCs. These jobs don't pay particularly well in the private sector. On the other end, highly specialised programming knowledge, FPGAs etc. The public sector wouldn't have much requirement for the later.

Jim Root

almostover wrote: »

Fair play, finally a realistic viewpoint. Best cases scenario is that pay levels are frozen as they are.

I wonder if the inflation rate will fall for the second half of the year so even your pay is frozen you might be doing better in relative terms.

Jim Root

Jim Root wrote: »

I wonder if the inflation rate will fall for the second half of the year so even your pay is frozen you might be doing better in relative terms.

The country is truly on it's way to hell in a basket if we start to even experience modest deflation.

Geuze

Jim Root wrote: »

I wonder if the inflation rate will fall for the second half of the year so even your pay is frozen you might be doing better in relative terms.

We moved into very slight deflation in April.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/cpi/consumerpriceindexapril2020/

-0.1%

Regarding public v private pay comparison. Plenty in the private sector can hide their true earnings. Nobody in the public sector can do that. So take any of those fancy graphs and stats and averages with a pinch of salt.

gmisk

HerrKuehn wrote: »

IT is such a broad term that it is almost meaningless. You might as well be saying office workers. On one end of the scale you have the guy who installs software and fixes issues on peoples PCs. These jobs don't pay particularly well in the private sector. On the other end, highly specialised programming knowledge, FPGAs etc. The public sector wouldn't have much requirement for the later.

I am going to have to cry BS on that last part.
The public sector is crying out for people with specialised skills in ICT, and imo is overly reliant on extremely well paid contract staff in these types of areas.
That's partially why they brought in specialist panels for ICT at AP level.

I have been offered a decent chunk more money in the private sector quite a few times over the years but have stuck with public sector because i like the roles I have had, the job security and i have been promoted a few times.

The public versus private always seems to come up when there is an economic disaster. People can make their own choice which they want to work for there are plenty of opportunities if you feel the public service is for you.

salonfire

gmisk wrote: »

The public versus private always seems to come up when there is an economic disaster. People can make their own choice which they want to work for there are plenty of opportunities if you feel the public service is for you.

Likewise, the public sector workers can move to the private sector if they feel they are undervalued and not drag the public into their strikes.

gmisk

salonfire wrote: »

Likewise, the public sector workers can move to the private sector if they feel they are undervalued and not drag the public into their strikes.

Of course.
But I am not here stating that private sector wages should be cut like a lot of other posters here are saying about the public sector.

Also to clarify, I have never been on strike before.

smelly sock

Private sector or public sector its the PAYE worker who gets screwed. We are in it together really. FG, IBEC and Independent news and media will try to cause division.

addaword

enricoh wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/weekly-public-private-sector-pay-difference-widens-to-247-1.3097576%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiO_OrGsL_pAhW3VhUIHZXVAhoQFjABegQIDBAH&usg=AOvVaw3oVOrybyOZ4n9gqh3R3Uks&ampcf=1
A report by Dublin-based stockbroker Davy earlier this year found that public-sector workers here earn 40 per cent more on average than their counterparts in the private sector, even before any allowance for their pension entitlements and job security is made.May 26, 2017

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-6347953/amp/Public-sector-workers-bring-home-average-private-sector-counterparts.html&ved=2ahUKEwiMtoSRsb_pAhUBqXEKHf_fASIQFjALegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3wRkKn9Mf21Y8zyi2eWIJK&ampcf=1&cshid=1589872689322

Public sector in Ireland get 40% more than private on average not taking into account better pension and job security
In UK it's 13%
Maybe Ireland's public sector are 27% better, definitely not that Bertie bought a few elections with the benchmarking atm!

Good post. And that gap was before the earnings of many in the private sector were decimated. No, we are not in it all together.

smelly sock

addaword wrote: »

Good post. And that gap was before the earnings of many in the private sector were decimated. No, we are not in it all together.

Who in the private sector had their earning decimated?

Mad_maxx

" all in this together *

" divide and conquer "



its as if every public servant does a workshop each year where some union head briefs them on a number of slogans to use

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Mad_maxx wrote: »

" all in this together *

" divide and conquer "



its as if every public servant does a workshop each year where some union head briefs them on a number of slogans to use

"Rolls Royce pensions"

"Gravy train"


Hope the irony isn't lost on you.

smelly sock

Mad_maxx wrote: »

" all in this together *

" divide and conquer "



its as if every public servant does a workshop each year where some union head briefs them on a number of slogans to use

And its about every 6 or 7 years the builders get a deserved kick in the bollix.

DM1983

DM1983 wrote: »

Not the full picture though. Need to look at total remuneration package. Massively higher pension "contribution" paid by the state - who can put a figure on this? 25% of total salary? As long as PS pensions remain in place at the current level, PS salaries should be far lower than private sector. Of course they should! Higher levels of annual leave are also a fact but don't impact the final picture significantly.

again I'll ask

are you really looking for a valuation of a pension without in any way taking into account what the worker pays towards it

and again I'll ask

are you interested in a tally of what the average full payout is from the exchequer, or are you interested in the notional cost put on the product in the private market for valuation purposes?

asking a question is only "just asking" when you're not completely skewing things.

i know plenty of people- twice my salary and more, but good luck to them- whose private sector employer matches their pension contributions up to 10 or 11%

post 95 theres not much id imagine in that as a difference or a perk

post 2014 and frankly the pension is no reason at all to join

this is about the fifth time this has been gone through in this thread, and probably the five hundredth time on boards

if you are still asking, its because you have no interest in knowing

addaword

smelly sock wrote: »

Who in the private sector had their earning decimated?

Many of the people not working in supermarkets or pharmacies. Some businesses will never re-open and there are a lot of people out of work.

salonfire

smelly sock wrote: »

Who in the private sector had their earning decimated?

I will be reporting this post for trolling.

smelly sock

salonfire wrote: »

I will be reporting this post for trolling.

How would it be trolling? Its a fair question.

Public sector workers had their pay savaged ten years ago and it never recovered. But people want to ignore that.

AndrewJRenko

addaword wrote: »

Good post. And that gap was before the earnings of many in the private sector were decimated. No, we are not in it all together.

Why would you expect the same salaries to apply to :
1) People doing the same work as before, but more of it in more difficult circumstances, and
2) People laid off from work, at home?

Why do you keep being surprised by different things being different?

Icbaby

Ive worked in the private sector for 20 years, paid my dues and decided to try move to the PS for a better work/life balance. I finally got in and left my job and €15k behind me along with yearly pay rise, bonus, health care, pension contribution and Xmas bonus all for security and to try maybe have an extra day here and there with my baby. I’m not there a year yet, but I’ve worked during covid, I am on €38 more than the covid payment but I made the choice to move. I work hard, I’m ok with not receiving an increment and ‘take one for the team’ but not ok with a pay cut as it literally would cripple me. I would be on less than minimum wage.
Someone said the PS should do like for like to the private sector but if they did I would’ve got a job at €40k instead of €24, but instead I’m using everything I know from my job in the private sector to help in the PS for lower wage and hoping it will better me in the long run. Everyone in there isn’t a waster.
Ps by reading this thread I really need to look more into my pension cause by the sounds of it I’m going to be loaded when I retire (in 30 years) and I’ll have not contributed to tax either!!!
Just so you know the vast majority work extremely hard just like the private sector and just like the private sector there are wasters.

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would you expect the same salaries to apply to :
1) People doing the same work as before, but more of it in more difficult circumstances, and
2) People laid off from work, at home?

Why do you keep being surprised by different things being different?

You did not quote the rest of the post. Given the large gap between public and private sector pay and pensions, not to mention job security, "we are not in it all together", as some would claim.

addaword

addaword wrote: »

You did not quote the rest of the post. Given the large gap between public and private sector pay and pensions, not to mention job security, "we are not in it all together", as some would claim.

Does that large gap really exist or is it just down to fancy accounting from a lot of the private sector self employed people.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Regarding public v private pay comparison. Plenty in the private sector can hide their true earnings. Nobody in the public sector can do that. So take any of those fancy graphs and stats and averages with a pinch of salt.

Yeah, good luck getting them to accept that perfectly logical and obvious explanation.

addaword

addaword wrote: »

You did not quote the rest of the post. Given the large gap between public and private sector pay and pensions, not to mention job security, "we are not in it all together", as some would claim.

That's Grand so. My jobs secure so I guess you can just go **** off and I'll begrudge paying any tax to bail out private sector staff that end up unemployed.

And for about the 100th time, none of the millionaires are included in your numbers for the private sector and not everyone that's in your list is working full-time. Just because you continue to ignore that doesn't change it

Here's an idea, instead of an 'average' without context, can you point to a set career that's paid more in the public sector than the private?

addaword

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

That's Grand so. My jobs secure so I guess you can just go **** off and I'll begrudge paying any tax to bail out private sector staff that end up unemployed.

You do know that all of your income, including income tax, came from money the private sector collected and submitted through vat, income tax etc...or else is money the government is borrowing?

addaword

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

That's Grand so. My jobs secure so I guess you can just go **** off and I'll begrudge paying any tax to bail out private sector staff that end up unemployed.

And for about the 100th time, none of the millionaires are included in your numbers for the private sector and not everyone that's in your list is working full-time. Just because you continue to ignore that doesn't change it

We know the pension pot of the average Gardai retiring after only 30 years is worth 1.8 million, according to the Irish Times, but are you calling them millionaires now, just because it is spread out over their retirement?

And as regards part time workers, are you including part time staff in the public service, teachers and lecturers who have 3 months off and work short hours etc?

addaword

addaword wrote: »

We know the pension pot of the average Gardai retiring after only 30 years is worth 1.8 million, according to the Irish Times, but are you calling them millionaires now, just because it is spread out over their retirement?

And as regards part time workers, are you including part time staff in the public service, teachers and lecturers who have 3 months off and work short hours etc?

Addaword, if the public service is so rewarding. Why don't you come work with us?