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Public service pay cut?

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    #1082
    addaword
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭addaword


    Vizzy wrote: »
    And SNA's, couldn't be any excellent amongst the 16,000 of them, given that they are sitting on their a**e doing nothing since the crisis started, could there?

    Not all are sitting on their a**e doing nothing, I am sure.

    Do you think those doing nothing should just get €350 p.w., as suggested on the radio?


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    #1083
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    Actually on the SNA issue, I personally know 2.

    Both are volunteering, one in a Nursing Home and one assisting Community Response.
    Both are working much longer hours than they ever would have worked as SNA's.

    So, using addawords logic, 100% of SNA's are fully engaged in gainful employment.


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    #1084
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    addaword wrote: »
    Not all are sitting on their a**e doing nothing, I am sure.

    Do you think those doing nothing should just get €350 p.w., as suggested on the radio?

    Care to throw an estimate on how many ? 2, 10, 16,000 ?

    Who/what radio station suggested paying €350, I heard nothing about it.


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    #1085
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭History Queen


    addaword wrote: »
    Not all are sitting on their a**e doing nothing, I am sure.

    Do you think those doing nothing should just get €350 p.w., as suggested on the radio?

    How come you never complain about ESB workers who were home on full pay until last week (unless they got a callout) ?


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    #1086
    addaword
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭addaword


    Vizzy wrote: »
    So, using addawords logic, 100% of SNA's are fully engaged in gainful employment.

    Far from it. I actually just said "Not all are sitting on their a**e doing nothing, I am sure."


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    #1087
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,117 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Vizzy wrote: »
    Care to throw an estimate on how many ? 2, 10, 16,000 ?

    Who/what radio station suggested paying €350, I heard nothing about it.
    Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer, because Adda has absolutely no clue about what any SNAs are or aren't doing.
    addaword wrote: »
    As you seem out of touch with the education system, I suggest you ask the parents of school going kids how often teachers are in contact. Some are excellent and are in contact every day, some once a week and some even less. Draw your own conclusions.
    I am a parent of school kids, so I'm not quite so out of touch as you might think. I'm also smart enough to get that there are two sides to every story, something that seems to have gone right over your head.
    addaword wrote: »
    No answer thew question about the SNA's.
    Haven't we discussed this before? You know my rate if you want me to do your research for you. Really, you should have found the answers to these questions before you opened your mouth here.


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    #1088
    Chaos Black
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Chaos Black


    Technically I am still paid the same during the current situation but I am regularly doing overtime without any additional pay or flexitime (suspended for duration of the crisis). Far from the only one either in public service. Whilst others are enjoying the sun I am up to my neck in work!

    So I guess at least in my situation, for the foreseeable it is mission accomplished! Goes with the territory of public service so not complaining.


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    #1089
    Sarn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭Sarn


    Just heard on the radio that the 2% restoration of pay for public sector workers is going ahead later in the year.

    Now with a link:

    https://www.todayfm.com/news/finance-minister-confirms-public-sector-pay-rise-1022966


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    #1090
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sarn wrote: »
    Just heard on the radio that the 2% restoration of pay for public sector workers is going ahead later in the year.

    Great news :)


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    #1091
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,819 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Sarn wrote: »
    Just heard on the radio that the 2% restoration of pay for public sector workers is going ahead later in the year.

    Good. I've been working as hard at home as in the office so I'm getting what was agreed.
    Won't even buy me a half cup of coffee in the week:D


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    #1092
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sarn wrote: »
    Just heard on the radio that the 2% restoration of pay for public sector workers is going ahead later in the year.

    Spare a thought for addaword who is currently hyperventilating on his couch at home.


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    #1093
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,819 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Spare a thought for addaword who is currently hyperventilating on his couch at home.

    I really don't know why people engage with him on this.

    It's a bit like a blood sport with him being the game :D


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    #1094
    MarkR
    Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    So, is that the end of the thread then?


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    #1095
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 35,078 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Sarn wrote: »
    Just heard on the radio that the 2% restoration of pay for public sector workers is going ahead later in the year.

    Now with a link:

    https://www.todayfm.com/news/finance-minister-confirms-public-sector-pay-rise-1022966

    Two whole percent, that doesn't match the increase in the cost of living but I'll take it...

    Private sector unions were looking for a minimum of 4.5% before all this kicked off. Of course that was on basic, doesn't include bonuses, share schemes, pension top-ups etc.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



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    #1096
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Two whole percent, that doesn't match the increase in the cost of living but I'll take it...

    Private sector unions were looking for a minimum of 4.5% before all this kicked off. Of course that was on basic, doesn't include bonuses, share schemes, pension top-ups etc.

    Private sector also wouldn't have increments. I am sure there are exceptions, but generally there might be some increase based on experience gained, or not. Increments are basically scheduled pay increases.


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    #1097
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Two whole percent, that doesn't match the increase in the cost of living but I'll take it...

    Private sector unions were looking for a minimum of 4.5% before all this kicked off. Of course that was on basic, doesn't include bonuses, share schemes, pension top-ups etc.

    You want to compare shares schemes and pensions at a time the stock market is on it's knees?


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    #1098
    TheSheriff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭TheSheriff


    salonfire wrote: »
    You want to compare shares schemes and pensions at a time the stock market is on it's knees?

    Is it?


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    #1099
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Two whole percent, that doesn't match the increase in the cost of living but I'll take it...

    Private sector unions were looking for a minimum of 4.5% before all this kicked off. Of course that was on basic, doesn't include bonuses, share schemes, pension top-ups etc.

    Taxed at 60%. They can hand out whatever pay increases they like to those earning at the top rate of tax. And the Vat man will come back for a second bite when you spend the remaining 40%.


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    #1100
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,117 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Private sector also wouldn't have increments. I am sure there are exceptions, but generally there might be some increase based on experience gained, or not. Increments are basically scheduled pay increases.

    I got pay increases for all of my 20+ years in the private sector, working in large and small companies, in good economic times and bad.

    Any large organisation will have pay bands within grades, and staff will move up those pay bands over time. Increments basically.
    salonfire wrote: »
    You want to compare shares schemes and pensions at a time the stock market is on it's knees?

    Great buying opportunity then?


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    #1101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Private sector also wouldn't have increments. I am sure there are exceptions, but generally there might be some increase based on experience gained, or not. Increments are basically scheduled pay increases.

    Increments are a different method of payment. The top of the scale is the value a experienced person should get paid for the role. You could reach the top of the scale in 7 years. You may then get paid at that level for the next 33 years until you retire if you dont get a promotion. And most people do not get a promotion.
    Increments are not some generous hand out. You have to work a number of years to reach that level. I simply wouldn't be in this job if the bottom of the scale was deemed the actual wage for the job.


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    #1102
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 35,078 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Private sector also wouldn't have increments.

    No. They pay the going rate for the job, not keep you waiting 19 years for it

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



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    #1103
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    I got pay increases for all of my 20+ years in the private sector, working in large and small companies, in good economic times and bad.

    Any large organisation will have pay bands within grades, and staff will move up those pay bands over time. Increments basically.



    Great buying opportunity then?

    That wouldn't be everyone's experience. I have personally told staff no raise this year due to performance not being up to expectations.


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    #1104
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    No. They pay the going rate for the job, not keep you waiting 19 years for it

    The increment system is not a good system for the better staff. They could go off and get paid better somewhere else. It benefits the below average staff who get the same increases.


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    #1105
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,117 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    That wouldn't be everyone's experience. I have personally told staff no raise this year due to performance not being up to expectations.

    You're right, it is not everyone's experience, in both public and private sector. Increments or salary increases are dependent on performance.


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    #1106
    matthewmurdock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭matthewmurdock


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    The increment system is not a good system for the better staff. They could go off and get paid better somewhere else. It benefits the below average staff who get the same increases.


    Completely agree.

    I'm studying for a degree (meaning I've already completed the Certificate and Diploma) in a specifically relevant field as a Clerical Officer but am being paid the same as somebody who started the same time as me but hasn't even gotten a certificate in that field.

    Obviously I expect that the degree will lead to promotions down the line, but in the short term with a recruitment freeze probably likely then putting the work into assignments/study/exams doesn't benefit me at all.


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    #1107
    DM1983
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭DM1983


    Sarn wrote: »
    Just heard on the radio that the 2% restoration of pay for public sector workers is going ahead later in the year.

    Now with a link:

    https://www.todayfm.com/news/finance-minister-confirms-public-sector-pay-rise-1022966

    This is surprising to me. We're on the eve of a massive economic recession. Seems like it would have been an easy sell politically to hold off on this 2%. The vast majority of workers in the country won't be receiving any pay increase this year so why go ahead with it? Obviously PS workers will be happy!

    Anyone else struggling to see the logic behind it though?


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    #1108
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    DM1983 wrote: »
    This is surprising to me. We're on the eve of a massive economic recession. Seems like it would have been an easy sell politically to hold off on this 2%. The vast majority of workers in the country won't be receiving any pay increase this year so why go ahead with it? Obviously PS workers will be happy!

    Anyone else struggling to see the logic behind it though?

    Our political class have been assimilated into the PS.


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    #1109
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Two whole percent, that doesn't match the increase in the cost of living but I'll take it...

    Inflation has actually fallen below zero.

    We have mild deflation.


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    #1110
    Indestructable
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭Indestructable


    DM1983 wrote: »
    This is surprising to me. We're on the eve of a massive economic recession. Seems like it would have been an easy sell politically to hold off on this 2%. The vast majority of workers in the country won't be receiving any pay increase this year so why go ahead with it? Obviously PS workers will be happy!

    Anyone else struggling to see the logic behind it though?

    I don't know, I see it more like the fact that nurses, doctors, Gardai, civil service, local authorities, water services etc. worked tirelessly throughout this pandemic to provide the level of services we come to expect, and even more so than normal in some cases.

    To turn around and deny what was promised to them would alienate all of them and their families.

    Not such an easy sell I'd imagine. There would be plenty of COs and others who would have been happy out with the 350 payment.


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    #1111
    Chaos Black
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Chaos Black


    DM1983 wrote: »
    This is surprising to me. We're on the eve of a massive economic recession. Seems like it would have been an easy sell politically to hold off on this 2%. The vast majority of workers in the country won't be receiving any pay increase this year so why go ahead with it? Obviously PS workers will be happy!

    Anyone else struggling to see the logic behind it though?

    Practical reason: This was already agreed as part of the last pay deal.

    Political Reason: Cutting public sector wages whilst elements of it are on the frontline and significant portions are dealing with the crisis in the background would not play well at the moment.

    Fiscal reason: The Government don't want to send a signal of austerity and want people spending money again and consumer confidence.

    The pandemic will have to be paid for at some point, but likely later down the line.


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