Public service pay cut?

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

why should the public sector accept this moaning just because youve decided "tax take is all that matters?" its a nonsensically simplistic statement that everyone in the thread, the service, certainly at the levels of govt where decisions will be made can feel totally free to ignore completely.


why would the public sector benchmark themselves against private sector job losses? you seem to be missing the point of getting a stable, modest income, well pensioned career.

maybe you didnt think you could take the moaners on boards? ah theyre not so bad. quite amusing angry little chaps actually.

why was benchmarking done twice before can it only be done when bring public sector pay up..

The government will have to be careful here as they promised that USC was a temporary tax and unlike the public sector pay which we are paying as much now as we where back in 2008 we are paying way more tax now. They cannot come to this well again as its dry. So before any income taxes are introduced they will have to
Cut welfare
Cut PS pay
Force PS to pay the full cost of their pension
Lets see how much of a burden that takes off the tax payer to begin with. Tax take in this country had gone through the roof in the last few years and the same with expenditure, you cannot expect the same levels of tax to be paid now that 25% of the population are net tax takers as apposed to tax payers. It cant be done without spending cuts

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

you think retired ppl should work, or that they shouldnt get pensions, or that nobody in the private sector has a good pension?

what?

its drivel tbh

Retired people under the age of retirement who has not fully covered the cost of their own pension should not be paid till retirement age 67 or probably 70 if thing keep going the way they are. Anyone with a good penion in the private sector paid for it themselves they have not asked any other tax payer to pay it

fliball123

khalessi wrote: »

Private health care is open to everyone and does not get you seen any faster in casualty. Triage is based on severity of illness not whether you have vhi or whatever

Well put it this way if I have private health care so I go to a private clinic i am in and out in an hour , I have had the misfortune of going public and waiting days not hours but days to be seen. So like the other poster said no way your getting scene to in an hour by a public sector health care worker

khalessi

fliball123 wrote: »

Well put it this way if I have private health care so I go to a private clinic i am in and out in an hour , I have had the misfortune of going public and waiting days not hours but days to be seen. So like the other poster said no way your getting scene to in an hour by a public sector health care worker

Well as stated private health care is available to all, it does not depend on public or private jobs.

Also I have been in A/E and seen in an hour, it depends on how busy they are and what level you are triaged at. I have also been in A/e and seen in 12 hours

So your point is?

Just curious but are you responding to every post on this thread from the beginning of it?

fliball123

da_miser wrote: »

There will be no pay cuts
Public servants worked during this covid outbreak, some on the front line risking infection and death.
Half the population got to stay home and collect €350 for staying safe, if this was offered to the Public service, how many do you think would have jumped on it?
Any pay cut would be met with ructions and all out strikes, money will be cut from the budget that goes to Quangos, NGO's and other vanity and virtue signaling projects.
If we are lucky the Government will take this golden opportunity to cut the fat from the budget, cut loose all the useless wastes of tax payer money.

There will have to be paycuts as the current tax returns are not paying the bills the spend side needs to be cut

ninebeanrows

Do people understand how many deductions there are in the PS?

Once you earn over 40k your marginal tax rate us about 60%

People like to throw around figures like 50-60k in the PS and mask it as a massive wage, I can confirm it is not

fliball123

Danzy wrote: »

SouthWesterly.

One should always be better off working than not, however any cuts at the moment are only going to accelerate the economic crisis.

Lets be clear here the crisis is here and not going away we could cut all spending and we are still in a hole. The issue here is how to pay for it

Over the years the people the government have bleed the middle income earners dry and even after we were supposedly out of the recession they continued with the USC a supposedly temporary tax. Now income tax workers cannot be asked to stump up again as people will be better off on the dole. The spend side of this equation needs to come down and this discussion of where to cut cannot exclude the 2 biggest bills to the exchequer which are welfare and ps pay and pensions both will have to be cut. We cant continue indefinitely paying what we are paying

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

There will have to be paycuts as the current tax returns are not paying the bills the spend side needs to be cut

Welcome back to the anti PS threads after a 10 year break.

fliball123

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Id love to know how charlie mcreevy and michael mcdowell influenced policy that caused every country in the western world to collapse economically.

This constant blaming of the irish government for a worldwide financial crash is getting tiresome.

They are to blame for pouring fire on an overheating economy , stupid ideas like the SSIA , allowing 110% mortgages, 2 rounds of benchmarking upping ps pay and pensions and paying for this on the receipts of stamp duty from a property bubble which was going to burst. Yeah they should have no blame at all..

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

fliball123 wrote: »

Over the years the people the government have bleed the middle income earners dry and even after we were supposedly out of the recession they continued with the USC a supposedly temporary tax. Now income tax workers cannot be asked to stump up again as people will be better off on the dole.

18 posts on the same thread in less than 2 hours. Do you have an agenda by any chance? You are aware that Public Sector workers are income tax workers too, a not inconsiderable segment of which would also be better off on the dole if their pay is cut yet again?

Geuze

thenightman wrote: »

988 as average public service wages per week is ridiculous. That figure is pushed up enormously by the high wage grades like AP, PO & Ast Secretary. There are very few post 2011 workers (already on reduced wages and far worse pension compared to colleagues performing same role) who will see anywhere near that money for a decade or two. I've recently been promoted after 3 years as a CO to EO, and won't come near that for 12 years.

Bear in mind that the Civil Service is a small part of the Public Service.

PO and Ast Secretary pay rates have little influence on wider PS average pay rates.

fliball123

Mad_maxx wrote: »

governments in ireland dont take on strong vested interests with strong lobby groups

public servants

pensioners

farmers


they look elsewhere to inflict pain and the media overwhelmingly backs them in doing so

The problem they will have to is that the tax payer is up to its guts in what they pay there will be mass emigration from this country if the put upon are put upon again you cant keep coming back to the income tax payer well looking for more the well is dry no water left and if they do try we will see people leaving in their droves for a better deal with regard to what they get rewarded for working hard.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

18 posts on the same thread in less than 2 hours. Do you have an agenda by any chance? You are aware that Public Sector workers are income tax workers too, a not inconsiderable segment of which would also be better off on the dole if their pay is cut yet again?

This guy was relentless back during the last recession. Now he has found his hobby is back in vogue he will be here for a while.

Btw another guy who is immune to new info / data if it goes against his narrative.

Hotblack Desiato

fliball123 wrote: »

why was benchmarking done twice before can it only be done when bring public sector pay up..

If you'd bothered to read the thread before going off on your posting spree, you'd know that benchmarking was reversed over ten years ago.

The government will have to be careful here as they promised that USC was a temporary tax

And "emergency measures" are still being deducted out of public sector pay packets every week, over 12 years later.

Geuze

fliball123 wrote: »

Force PS to pay the full cost of their pension

PS pay 6.5% pension cont, and since 2009/2010 they pay a further 10% PRD.

The temporary PRD has now been legislated into a permanent ASC, so that now most PS, excl those hired since 2013, pay as follows:

6.5%
plus 10% of earnings over 32k

Obviously this does not cover the full cost, as the employer is also expected to contribute.

fliball123

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You must have missed the overnight 10% reduction in pay and 25% on allowances.

You can't have your cake and eat it really. The public sector is steady and dependable, that's not a secret. We need education, we need police and medical staff and people in offices keeping the machine working. That won't change but again, if your chasing your first million then the public sector isn't for you.

Steady and dependable what cool aid are you drinking..We have seen a myriad of scandals over the last 2 decades from TDs and printer toners to x ray scandals and from Garda blowing into their own breatalisers to fake productivity to the Cervical check scandal......Hardly what I would call steady and dependable

fliball123

mariaalice wrote: »

But what has that got to do with it?, plus there needs to be spending in the econmey for a quick recovery taking money out of people would prolong the downturn.

So why should our kids have to pay for this?

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

Instead of depending on finfacts.ie, which may be biased, why don't we go to the raw data?

Let's look up table PSA01 in the CSO's Statbank.

https://statbank.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=PSA01&PLanguage=0

PSA01: Public Sector Average Weekly Earnings (1988 to 2008) by Type of Public Sector Employment and Year

2001 = 671.78

2006 = 882.02

That is an increase of 31%, not 59%

Are you figures including the knock on effect of pensions in this analogy?

fliball123

MarkR wrote: »

I'm on 30+ pages here, so maybe I missed it. If the public service should take a pay cut, should those still working in the private sector also be taxed an equivalent amount, so we can all get the country back up and running together?

Cut Welfare
Cut PS pay
Let PS pay their own pensions
Then after this yes we can tax but the spend side of this equation needs to come down

fliball123

khalessi wrote: »

Well as stated private health care is available to all, it does not depend on public or private jobs.

Also I have been in A/E and seen in an hour, it depends on how busy they are and what level you are triaged at. I have also been in A/e and seen in 12 hours

So your point is?

Just curious but are you responding to every post on this thread from the beginning of it?

yeah I am responding as I am reading them I am off on a days holidays out in the back with laptop. Just seen the thread and was thinking how bonkers it is that the public sector are looking for payrises this year when 20/25% of people who were paying the bill for their wage are now tax takers and not tax payers anymore.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

Welcome back to the anti PS threads after a 10 year break.

Well you guys had a good run for 10 years and trust me I dont like being back on here telling the hard truths but when I see suggested pay rises this year gfor public sector workers when we as a country cant afford it I cant stay quiet about it

khalessi

fliball123 wrote: »

yeah I am responding as I am reading them I am off on a days holidays out in the back with laptop. Just seen the thread and was thinking how bonkers it is that the public sector are looking for payrises this year when 20/25% of people who were paying the bill for their wage are now tax takers and not tax payers anymore.

Where have PS looked for payrises?

fliball123

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

18 posts on the same thread in less than 2 hours. Do you have an agenda by any chance? You are aware that Public Sector workers are income tax workers too, a not inconsiderable segment of which would also be better off on the dole if their pay is cut yet again?

They are net tax takers this has been done to death the ps nett costs about 15billion

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

This guy was relentless back during the last recession. Now he has found his hobby is back in vogue he will be here for a while.

Btw another guy who is immune to new info / data if it goes against his narrative.

No not back in vogue just very worried that the tax payer will be tied up put over a barrell with a gag put over his/her mouth and raped again for more taxation. The maths on this one is even worse than 2008 and yet ps think they will be getting pay rises..

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

PS pay 6.5% pension cont, and since 2009/2010 they pay a further 10% PRD.

The temporary PRD has now been legislated into a permanent ASC, so that now most PS, excl those hired since 2013, pay as follows:

6.5%
plus 10% of earnings over 32k

Obviously this does not cover the full cost, as the employer is also expected to contribute.

So you agree they dont cover the full cost thanks for clearing that up. Let them pay the full cost

fliball123

khalessi wrote: »

Where have PS looked for payrises?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/432f22-public-service-stability-agreement-2018-2020/

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/ictu-boss-insists-public-sector-workers-must-get-their-october-pay-rise-9068bca6

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Well you guys had a good run for 10 years and trust me I dont like being back on here telling the hard truths but when I see suggested pay rises this year gfor public sector workers when we as a country cant afford it I cant stay quiet about it

What good run. Up until March the economy has been doing well over the last 6 or 7 years and we are still earning less than we were in 2008.

Btw its not suggested psyrises or PS looking for pay rise now. This 2% is already agreed and will proceed unless actively stopped.

khalessi

fliball123 wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/432f22-public-service-stability-agreement-2018-2020/

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/ictu-boss-insists-public-sector-workers-must-get-their-october-pay-rise-9068bca6

Paywall

Interesting, it is pay restoration in those documents but I think you already know that and I dont think that the fact it is pay restoration will make any difference to you.

The media love to refer to it as a payrise even though they know the history behind it and have access to the same documents which state it is pay restoration.

Anyhow the chances of it being paid is slim considering the predicament the country and world is in.

So again show me where PS is asking for a payrise? Have you seen PS asking for payrise in a pandemic? Are there talks occuring we aren't aware of?

paulie21

fliball123 wrote: »

Well you guys had a good run for 10 years and trust me I dont like being back on here telling the hard truths but when I see suggested pay rises this year gfor public sector workers when we as a country cant afford it I cant stay quiet about it

Yeah but its alright for public sector workers to continue working during the height of a pandemic while majority of private sector sit at home sunning themselves

Geuze

fliball123 wrote: »

So you agree they dont cover the full cost thanks for clearing that up. Let them pay the full cost

You seem to be against any employer contributing to staff pensions?

Do we stop Intel making contributions to the Intel staff pensions?

I know staff in Ericsson who have, listen to this, non-con pensions, as in the employer makes all the contributions.

PS now pay 6.5% plus 10% ASC on earnings over 32k.

I accept that 6.5% on its own was too little for many years.

In this context, I suggest the PSPR should be continued, to reflect that current pensions paid much less conts.