Public service pay cut?

addaword

HartsHat wrote: »

That's bad financial planning.

My public sector pension is no better than my private sector pension, because I was earning so much additional in private sector that I was able to put a good chunk away, tax free.

If you're not availing of such a government subsidy, that's on you.

Take some personal responsibility.

According to the Irish Times, the value of an average Garda pension is 1.8 million. They only work 30 years to have that as a pension pt. The average private sector worker, be they self employed or paye, simply cannot afford to put that in to their pension and retire after 30 years work.

"Take some personal responsibility", says you, ffs.

purifol0

Worth a read

The_Brood

In terms of protests, I mean it depends who exactly you would be taxing or pay cutting. If it is only the top earners like directors, POs, maybe even APs you might get away with it. If you are thinking of taxing the lower earners, which are the most numerous...get ready for massive shutdowns.

HerrKuehn

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Well, you don't pay anything to my company as a customer. We don't have customers, it isn't that type of business. My career choices have worked out very well thanks. I haven't been calling for any reduction in your conditions either, if you look through my previous posts. My point is really based on the tax system and the situation the government has for private pensions. If they look to massively increase taxes again or increase the cost to saving for a pension, i'm done.
The current situation has shown that all I really need is internet and a computer to do my job.

Where's the money come from without an end user?

For what it's worth, I think the current pension system isn't a good one. Especially not the prsi one. I would favour a universal pension based on prsi contributions modeled on the Spanish system. I only use Spain as an example as I know their system. The now prsi you paid over your lifetime, the higher your state pension.

Private pensions are uncommon as a result.

SouthWesterly

runawaybishop wrote: »

Thats secretary general wages, i.e the heads of entire departments. No-where near 1% on that even! Hes talking out of his hoop.

Sec gen gets 207kso nowhere near the 300k being bandied about.

addaword

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times, the value of an average Garda pension is 1.8 million. They only work 30 years to have that as a pension pt. The average private sector worker, be they self employed or paye, simply cannot afford to put that in to their pension and retire after 30 years work.

"Take some personal responsibility", says you, ffs.

Still going by your dubious numbers I see.

Gardai aren't equalto your 'average' private sector employee. They are more important to society.

They also, due to their chosen careers, tend to be further down the road by the time they retire. That's the price they pay for early retirement. 30 years of work that ages you fast. 30 years of working Christmas day, getting stuck beyond your 12 hour shift to stay with a case. Coming back in after only maybe 3 hours sleep to spend an entire day interviewing a child abuser who just smiles at you because they know they won't be convicted.

But that's the path they chose, they knew they had to work holidays and they knew that the job would demand from them physically and mentally or at least should have.

And again, you chose your path, walk it and stop being so bitter against everyone else.

2ndcoming

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times, the value of an average Garda pension is 1.8 million. They only work 30 years to have that as a pension pt. The average private sector worker, be they self employed or paye, simply cannot afford to put that in to their pension and retire after 30 years work.

"Take some personal responsibility", says you, ffs.

The two things are fundamentally unrelatable. The "average private sector worker" covers everything from McDonagh's part time wage slaves in Supermac's to people researching cancer medication to guys in vulture funds earning €500k+ stripping entire blocks of Dublin from the Irish people. Hence why the "average" figures you keep churning out aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Public sector jobs are by and large jobs that are deemed necessary to the country functioning as a modern European nation. For the vast majority they are paid well within the range of the average industrial wage 20-50k over their career as they develop and gain experience of what they're doing. At the higher grades the pay can seem large on paper when you know nothing of the people doing those jobs other than some caricature in your head. Most of these people are highly qualified and the problem is actually due to the private sector. They can (and often do) walk into higher paying jobs in the morning based on their level of qualifications. Revenue/Finance can't compete with KPMG, Agriculture can't compete with Kerry Group, Foreign Affairs can't compete with multinationals looking for multilingual managers with experience of many countries, etc, etc, etc.

Also, a career in the public sector is open to anyone who wants it. The kind of people who laughed at the crap wages on offer in their 20s, went off and made a load more money in <insert free market enterprise here>, spent like it would never end til they were 50, then said "where's my pension, how come the public servants get a pension" can swing. It's like the Irish equivalent of the Brexiteers wanting to have their cake and eat it, and I'd fully expect it's a very similar cohort.

Is the public sector without problems? Definitely not. Is the private sector? Definitely not. The vast majority of people in both just want to get on with their lives. Frank after 25 years in the biscuit factory isn't going to be sitting here crying because the fella who caught the ba5tard who assaulted his daughter gets a pension after 30 yrs putting up with the lowest of the low every day. And if he is well Frank should have a word with himself...

2ndcoming

2ndcoming wrote: »

The two things are fundamentally unrelatable. The "average private sector worker" covers everything from McDonagh's part time wage slaves in Supermac's to people researching cancer medication to guys in vulture funds earning €500k+ stripping entire blocks of Dublin from the Irish people. Hence why the "average" figures you keep churning out aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Public sector jobs are by and large jobs that are deemed necessary to the country functioning as a modern European nation. For the vast majority they are paid well within the range of the average industrial wage 20-50k over their career as they develop and gain experience of what they're doing. At the higher grades the pay can seem large on paper when you know nothing of the people doing those jobs other than some caricature in your head. Most of these people are highly qualified and the problem is actually due to the private sector. They can (and often do) walk into higher paying jobs in the morning based on their level of qualifications. Revenue/Finance can't compete with KPMG, Agriculture can't compete with Kerry Group, Foreign Affairs can't compete with multinationals looking for multilingual managers with experience of many countries, etc, etc, etc.

Also, a career in the public sector is open to anyone who wants it. The kind of people who laughed at the crap wages on offer in their 20s, went off and made a load more money in <insert free market enterprise here>, spent like it would never end til they were 50, then said "where's my pension, how come the public servants get a pension" can swing. It's like the Irish equivalent of the Brexiteers wanting to have their cake and eat it, and I'd fully expect it's a very similar cohort.

Is the public sector without problems? Definitely not. Is the private sector? Definitely not. The vast majority of people in both just want to get on with their lives. Frank after 25 years in the biscuit factory isn't going to be sitting here crying because the fella who caught the ba5tard who assaulted his daughter gets a pension after 30 yrs putting up with the lowest of the low every day. And if he is well Frank should have a word with himself...

Will said, sadly for you it's been pointed out to him numerous times in this thread already. He will selectively quote a small part and ignore the parts that don't suit him or simple ignore you completely.

purifol0

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Still going by your dubious numbers I see.

Gardai aren't equalto your 'average' private sector employee. They are more important to society.

They also, due to their chosen careers, tend to be further down the road by the time they retire. That's the price they pay for early retirement. 30 years of work that ages you fast. 30 years of working Christmas day, getting stuck beyond your 12 hour shift to stay with a case. Coming back in after only maybe 3 hours sleep to spend an entire day interviewing a child abuser who just smiles at you because they know they won't be convicted.

But that's the path they chose, they knew they had to work holidays and they knew that the job would demand from them physically and mentally or at least should have.

And again, you chose your path, walk it and stop being so bitter against everyone else.

This is just fantasy. A gardas worth is not based on market realities but by arbitrary and indeed incredibly generous payscales overtime and allowances of which there are an incredible amount. Since It is illegal to form a private sector organisation with the same powers we can't directly compare their pay with a normal company. So how can we see if they are over or underpaid? Simple, you look at how many people apply to join the Gardai and how many leave. Turns out about 5000 people apply every year for approx 100 hundred positions. Therefore we could easily cut the pay and still have more than enough applicants since no one leaves (apart from the odd whistleblower).

Also the again UTTER FANTASY that gardai are in any way overworked can be seen by their massive waistlines

"Gardai spend €109k on trousers with waist sizes of 40 inches and above in past five years"

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3770524/garda-spending-trousers-waists-over-40-inches/

worded

Australian view on public and private sector

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=293089391856137&id=57886636727&sfnsn=scwspwa&extid=7pJx3XXg5v9zMkzl&d=w&vh=e

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

addaword wrote: »

Pay cuts are inevitable to help re-balance the country. In New Zealand some people paid by the public purse there have taken a 20% pay cut voluntarily.

Yes, but it was just Members of Parliament and Chief Execs of Gov departments. They're not talking about a universal paycut for the whole public sector. There has been no mention of it, in fact, the PM said herself that they don't want low and middle income earners being the ones to be hit.

addaword

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Sec gen gets 207kso nowhere near the 300k being bandied about.

The president of Spain ( who works as their Prime Minister and so who is on call 24/ 7 and a very responsible job, running a country that big ) is only paid 72,000 per year. What some people here get paid by the state is scandalous.

HartsHat

addaword wrote: »

The president of Spain ( who works as their Prime Minister and so who is on call 24/ 7 and a very responsible job, running a country that big ) is only paid 72,000 per year. What some people here get paid by the state is scandalous.

There's 26 year old Newly Qualified Solicitors earning more than that. So what?

tayto lover

worded wrote: »

Australian view on public and private sector

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=293089391856137&id=57886636727&sfnsn=scwspwa&extid=7pJx3XXg5v9zMkzl&d=w&vh=e

One Australian view.

blanch152

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times, the value of an average Garda pension is 1.8 million. They only work 30 years to have that as a pension pt. The average private sector worker, be they self employed or paye, simply cannot afford to put that in to their pension and retire after 30 years work.

"Take some personal responsibility", says you, ffs.

This has been answered many times in this thread already.

blanch152 wrote: »

This has been answered and addressed many times, not just in this thread.

Apples and oranges.

In decent private sector companies, the level of employer contribution to pensions is two to three times the employee contribution. For your example, you assume a level of employer contribution of zero. It makes your comparison disingenuous at best.

The problem isn't the public service pension, it is the failure of many private sector employers to continue to provide decent pensions to their employees.

blanch152 wrote: »

That pension pot worth 1.8 million is nonsense, as it is an individual calculation which takes no account of the fact that a Garda is in a collective pension scheme.

It is like comparing apples and oranges.

2ndcoming

purifol0 wrote: »

Worth a read

Peak Sindo. Absolute tripe, dripping in neo-liberal ideology. Even more sickening when you consider the writer is an at least somewhat creative person allowing himself to be used as a conduit for Denis O'Brien to advance his 'divide & plunder' message, even though the vast majority of people copped on to it ages ago. The sooner these rags go the way of the dinosaur the better.

Pass the sick bucket.

fliball123

august12 wrote: »

Do all private sector workers cover the full cosy of their contributory pension, I don't so, but you don't hear me moaning about it, Some qualify for a full contributory pension on 10 years contributions, I am not entitled to a contributory pension, and my PS pension is not the gold plated one people make it out to be.

The fact is a large % of private sector workers cant afford a private pension but dont let that fact hit in the head there

gingerbeard27

Fred Cryton wrote: »

No no, silly. This is Ireland. In Ireland, we don't "cut" anything. We instead identify the narrow band of hard working middle income private sector higher rate taxpayers (around 20% of the population), and we simply increase their taxes yet again. More welfare and more public sector pay, sure why not? Wouldn't it be cruel not to? Just identify those people, tax them once again, and then pat yourself on the back for reducing "inequality".

Yes, the infamous private sector tax that would in no way affect public service workers in the same income bracket.

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

The fact is a large % of private sector workers cant afford a private pension but dont let that fact hit in the head there

........and loads can afford one.......so what's your point?

fliball123

Paulzx wrote: »

........and loads can afford one.......so what's your point?

Point is I dont want to pay towards someone else's pension when I cant afford my own. Is that ok with you?

TheSheriff

fliball123 wrote: »

The fact is a large % of private sector workers cant afford a private pension but dont let that fact hit in the head there

The hatred is strong with this one..... would you not just strive to get yourself a better paying job so that you can have a bigger pension?

Or.... join the public service?

fliball123

TheSheriff wrote: »

The hatred is strong with this one..... would you not just strive to get yourself a better paying job so that you can have a bigger pension?

Or.... join the public service?

Its not hatred its fact. If we hit a great depression which is being predicted globally how are the public sector expecting to get pay rises? Why should I get a better job why cant I just pay less tax than what I am being made pay

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

Point is I dont want to pay towards someone else's pension when I cant afford my own. Is that ok with you?

No.........you don't want someone to have something that you don't have.

You made your own career choices. Maybe they should have been wiser?

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

Its not hatred its fact. If we hit a great depression which is being predicted globally how are the public sector expecting to get pay rises? Why should I get a better job why cant I just pay less tax than what I am being made pay

Ok..so you don't have any aspirations to improve your lot. You'd rather bitch about somebody else getting something instead of working towards getting it yourself.

I get you now

fliball123

Paulzx wrote: »

No.........you don't want someone to have something that you don't have.

You made your own career choices. Maybe they should have been wiser?

No they can have it but let them pay the full cost

fliball123

Paulzx wrote: »

Ok..so you don't have any aspirations to improve your lot. You'd rather bitch about somebody else getting something instead of working towards getting it yourself.

I get you now

Ask my hoop there you don't know me or what education or what level of job I do this is typical of the pampered section attack the poster and not the post, nothing you or I say will refute the facts that we are in for one hell of a downturn how you expect the tax payer to cover the cost of 20% to 25% less people working and no longer paying into the tax take of the country and are now on the dole so they need to be supported then add the current cost of both ps pay and pensions not to mention the payrises that are scheduled in that sector. It simply cant be done. Sorry to burst your bubble there and I will talk about whats unfair in society and what is unfair is an expectation of the public sector to continue to have their pensions subsidized by a sector where very few have their own pension, not to mention they expect pay rises when their employer will be 230billion in debt and borrowing on a monthly basis. The sums dont add up but all the ps and ps sympathizer on here simply think there is a magic money tree out there.

JustAThought

why are recruitment consultants for university staff being paid salaries of 80-120k on a permanent pensionable basis and yet a qualified solicitor working for the state courts is expected to struggle by on a 30k salary? Why have some government jobs up to 16
pages of detailed job specifications for average salaries yet the senior roles eg in DCC state
people ‘myst be well educated and have experience
of working for DCC’. If we stopped allowing the utter waste, cronyism and nepotism that woupd be a great start - and we might stop
the institutional behaviours, self entitlement and lazy work practices that are embedded in many state workers.

tayto lover

TheSheriff wrote: »

The hatred is strong with this one..... would you not just strive to get yourself a better paying job so that you can have a bigger pension?

Or.... join the public service?

I wonder if someone made a bad choice of career and has been regretting it for a long time now? Or maybe they were turned down? Something has seriously riled them anyway.

august12

fliball123 wrote: »

The fact is a large % of private sector workers cant afford a private pension but dont let that fact hit in the head there

I am referring to the state contributory pension, please read my post,

fliball123

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder if someone made a bad choice of career and has been regretting it for a long time now? Or maybe they were turned down? Something has seriously riled them anyway.

I am very happy with my choice but the facts are the facts if personal taxation levels go up with out any attempt to cut costs in this country I will not be hanging about long and the other fact to bear is that Working from home has been the huge success story of this pandemic so I can effectively work from here in Ireland or I can phuck off with my taxes to Sunny Florida, Gold coast or maybe some where in the Canaras, where my taxes on work will not be anywhere near as much as I what I pay here and where I get a lot more for my taxes.