Public service pay cut?

fliball123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Do public servants not get up in the morning? Do they not pay tax?

ffs

Did I say they didnt? If I did can you point it out where I did?

AndrewJRenko

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Spot on. The opposition don't care who pays as long as it's not them and their supporters are paying. The net contributors in Ireland are sick of paying for everything and everybody else. The only flash of anger that I have seen manifest in this respect was at the last presidential election when Peter Casey dared question a specific project and its merit. He took 25% of the vote just from that

What specific project was that? I thought Casey got 25% with classic Trump/Farage tactics. Find someone down the ladder that you can persuade the middle classes to blame for their difficulties. Trump did Mexicans, Farage did immigrants in general, Casey did travelers, with an occasional swipe at anyone who gets social welfare (which ironically, includes most middle class families).

Casey did kinda bomb out when it came to the general election though, the important ones.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Do public servants not get up in the morning? Do they not pay tax?

ffs

No. They receive more tax revenue than they pay back. Does this really need to be explained to you?

BonnieSituation

salonfire wrote: »

No. They receive more tax revenue than they pay back. Does this really need to be explained to you?

They receive more in wages than they pay in tax?

That's seems like how it should work?

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They receive more in wages than they pay in tax?

That's seems like how it should work?

Who mentioned wages? The poster was asking about tax. They receive more tax revenue than they pay.

Hope your arithmetic improves by the time you start your public sector job.

BonnieSituation

salonfire wrote: »

Who mentioned wages? The poster was asking about tax. They receive more tax revenue than they pay.

Hope your arithmetic improves by the time you start your public sector job.

I'll think of you everyday I buy coffee with your tax.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'll think of you everyday I buy coffee with your tax.

Good. Maybe next time you'll think twice about misrepresentating your position and conflict of interest.

BonnieSituation

salonfire wrote: »

Good. Maybe next time you'll think twice about misrepresentating your position and conflict of interest.

What?

I don't work in the public sector. I will. And I have done in the past. None of that is your business though.

The Scott Tenorman-level of whinging you and fliball do here everyday that misrepresents how governments and spending actually function and the importance of a civil service just shows up how irrelevant your thoughts in this whole field actually are.

It's rather fun to watch the flailing on a daily basis I might add.

But as I say, I'll think of you everyday as I sit on my ass drinking the coffee you have personally contributed to.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

Who mentioned wages? The poster was asking about tax. They receive more tax revenue than they pay.

.

What has "more" got to do with it? Public servants pay tax - income tax, VAT, excise duty, property tax, motor tax and more taxes.

That's an arithmetic fact.

blanch152

salonfire wrote: »

Who mentioned wages? The poster was asking about tax. They receive more tax revenue than they pay.

Hope your arithmetic improves by the time you start your public sector job.

What sort of nonsense is this?

Do you expect them to just turn up and work for nothing?

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

What sort of nonsense is this?

Do you expect them to just turn up and work for nothing?

Of course he does. And if you turn up wearing more than sack cloth he'll expect you to work longer.

blackcard

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Do public servants not get up in the morning? Do they not pay tax?

ffs

I got 3 pay cuts as the Celtic Tiger died. And heard private sector people say that increases in income taxes meant that public sector workers were escaping scot free. Sorry, an increase in taxes affects both sectors . As someone who spent approximately 50% of their working life in both sectors, I came to the following conclusions. In general, private sector workers worked longer hours. Public sector workers got greater abuse. Public sector had more dossers working for them, private sector had more cheats. Private sector worked harder, public sector were more principled.

Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that you cannot denigrate any sector because you happen to belong to it

ThunbergsAreGo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The problem for your good self seems to be that you're an outlier - that the number of people who agree with your views is so small that there's not even a crank party like Renua or Aontu that will bang your drum for you.

Most people take a different view, and most of those people are just as smart as you and just as competent at economics as you.

You would think so looking at the media, but more and more people I speak to share these views.

Wanderer78

blackcard wrote:

I got 3 pay cuts as the Celtic Tiger died. And heard private sector people say that increases in income taxes meant that public sector workers were escaping scot free. Sorry, an increase in taxes affects both sectors . As someone who spent approximately 50% of their working life in both sectors, I came to the following conclusions. In general, private sector workers worked longer hours. Public sector workers got greater abuse. Public sector had more dossers working for them, private sector had more cheats. Private sector worked harder, public sector were more principled.

Thankfully more and more are starting to realise, attacks on the public sector have been just orchestrated from particular ideologies, particularly since the 80's, but have actually worked successfully. We need to mature now, and accept both sectors are actually critical for a functioning society and economy, but both do have inefficiencies and short comings, and we must work together to try reduce these, hopefully eradicating them, in order to have a better future for all. Thank you, and best of luck

blackcard

blackcard wrote: »

Private sector worked harder, public sector were more principled.

You have got to be joking.

Well paid Gardai putting the security of the State at risk and instilling fear across the country with their threatened illegal walk-out.

Well paid Nurses walking away from cancer patients where the picket line was more important to them.

Well paid Teachers disrupting the education and well-being of children with various strikes and refusal to do supervision unless paid extra, despite supervision being integral part of the school day since year dot.

Piehead

Are teachers having their pay cut? They work a ridiculously short number of hours every day and have massively long holidays.

If they don’t have their pay cut they should act as free cleaners or gardeners for the general public who pay their wages during their holidays. Might prevent them from doing those nixers like grinds that most don’t pay tax on.

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote:

You have got to be joking.

Piehead wrote:

If they don’t have their pay cut they should act as free cleaners or gardeners for the general public who pay their wages during their holidays. Might prevent them from doing those nixers like grinds that most don’t pay tax on.

Are you both really this ignorant!

The general public does not pay public sector workers, we are all paying taxes to service the debts that pay for our public services

JaCrispy

With the usual suspects in here whinging about how privileged, well paid and underworked every member of the public sector is, you'd have to wonder why don't they get a job in the public sector themselves?

I think we all know the answer.

Piehead

JaCrispy wrote: »

With the usual suspects in here whinging about how privileged, well paid and underworked every member of the public sector is, you'd have to wonder why don't they get a job in the public sector themselves?

I think we all know the answer.

A lot of people just aren’t lazy enough for the public sector

JaCrispy

JaCrispy wrote: »

With the usual suspects in here whinging about how privileged, well paid and underworked every member of the public sector is, you'd have to wonder why don't they get a job in the public sector themselves?

I think we all know the answer.

Because I am paid much more than I would as a new entrant to the PS and would have to wait years just so I could get to the salary I am on now. The public sector raises are limited to at or below inflation. Why on earth would I join a sector that is going to be severely limited in the years to come.

SortingYouOut

Piehead wrote: »

A lot of people just aren’t lazy enough for the public sector

It's obvious from your last few posts that you wouldn't pass the tests to get in. If you think public servants are lazy, you clearly don't have a clue what the majority of them do. This usual boring old spiel again and again, it's either a poisonous little jealousy deep down toward those with a steady job or these people are just the type who begrudge others in general. Either way, it's always the same uneducated fist shaking at the Public Service, with no clue about the day to day workings of it.

Burkie1203

Piehead wrote: »

Are teachers having their pay cut? They work a ridiculously short number of hours every day and have massively long holidays.

If they don’t have their pay cut they should act as free cleaners or gardeners for the general public who pay their wages during their holidays. Might prevent them from doing those nixers like grinds that most don’t pay tax on.

Nothing to stop you becoming a teacher and securing those perks. Except maybe the lack of brain cells

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Nothing to stop you becoming a teacher and securing those perks. Except maybe the lack of brain cells

Nothing stopping teachers pursing high paid careers in Finance, Engineering or IT. Except maybe the lack of brain cells, especially the ability to achieve Higher Level Maths in the LC which the vast majority of teachers do not have. Particularly at primary level.

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote: »

Nothing stopping teachers pursing high paid careers in Finance, Engineering or IT. Except maybe the lack of brain cells, especially the ability to achieve Higher Level Maths in the LC which the vast majority of teachers do not have. Particularly at primary level.

i dont agree with the personal attacks, of either pubic or private sector workers, i actually think its just another immature approach to the debate, we clearly need all of the above professions, and more, in order to have a functioning society and economy. do we have actual proof of your claim, in regards maths and teaching, also baring in mind, maths is only one necessity in creating such a society, and it has its own pitfalls, imperfections, irrelevance etc etc etc?

JaCrispy

JaCrispy wrote: »

With the usual suspects in here whinging about how privileged, well paid and underworked every member of the public sector is, you'd have to wonder why don't they get a job in the public sector themselves?

I think we all know the answer.

For people who are supposed to be so busy working longer hours etc than people in the ps, they certainly seem to spend a lot of time on different threads alright.

Treppen

JaCrispy wrote: »

With the usual suspects in here whinging about how privileged, well paid and underworked every member of the public sector is, you'd have to wonder why don't they get a job in the public sector themselves?

I think we all know the answer.

.... and also they never reveal their own job, pension, progression, bonuses, allowances, education, tax, tax relief is.

If ever I discuss tax with students they like to one-up each other about how their daddy avoids tax, puts everything under company, or in someone else name etc. etc. One kid got their phone, laptop, car... HOUSE for college, all under daddy's business.

I've never had a tradesman who didn't take cash only... Except for a boiler repair guy who was working for a company.

Wanderer78

Treppen wrote: »

.... and also they never reveal their own job, pension, progression, bonuses, allowances, education, tax, tax relief is.

If ever I discuss tax with students they like to one-up each other about how their daddy avoids tax, puts everything under company, or in someone else name etc. etc. One kid got their phone, laptop, car... HOUSE for college, all under daddy's business.

....tax avoidance is becoming a serious issue, we cannot run our economies and societies effectively on such thinking and actions

Treppen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....tax avoidance is becoming a serious issue, we cannot run our economies and societies effectively on such thinking and actions

But yet the public sector worker seem to be creaming it (going by the bashers on here) , every single cent of my wages is accounted for, and even at that I have to fight departmental payroll for months to correct it.

I've zero problem putting up my payslip.
Would the private sector workers on here do the same? :pac: like #### they would.

JaCrispy

JaCrispy wrote: »

With the usual suspects in here whinging about how privileged, well paid and underworked every member of the public sector is, you'd have to wonder why don't they get a job in the public sector themselves?

I think we all know the answer.

They really should try to get a job in the PS they are clearly obsessed with it. Any public service thread over the last 10 to 12 years they have been all over it like flies to a cow patch.

Treppen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They really should try to get a job in the PS they are clearly obsessed with it. Any public service thread over the last 10 to 12 years they have been all over it like flies to a cow patch.

Same folk every time... Who are they?
What is their own job and financial circumstances?
Fair is fair.

Wanderer78

Treppen wrote: »

But yet the public sector worker seem to be creaming it (going by the bashers on here) , every single cent of my wages is accounted for, and even at that I have to fight departmental payroll to fix it. I've zero problem putting up my payslip.
Would the private sector workers on here do the same? :pac: like #### they would.

...again public sector bashing has been epidemic since the introduction of particular ideologies, particularly since the 80's, such programs have been extremely successful in their objectives, some criticism has been true, but a lot has been pure bullsh1t. reducing public sector pay, reduces the overall money supply, leading to a reduction in economic activities as a whole

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

They really should try to get a job in the PS they are clearly obsessed with it. Any public service thread over the last 10 to 12 years they have been all over it like flies to a cow patch.

I'm happy to counter the lies and myths from public sector workers.

I'm much better off where I am now rather than being a new entrant to the PS. Plus my industry pays much better in the private sector than public.

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

I'm much better off where I am now rather than being a new entrant to the PS. Plus my industry pays much better in the private sector than public.

I’m delighted for you.

mehico

salonfire wrote: »

I'm happy to counter the lies and myths from public sector workers.

I'm much better off where I am now rather than being a new entrant to the PS. Plus my industry pays much better in the private sector than public.

Possibly PS will have to increase salary levels to attract specific talent in some areas.

mehico

mehico wrote: »

Possibly PS will have to increase salary levels to attract specific talent in some areas.

Yes, that's always been the case but because it is so union dominated market forces are not allowed to apply to attract skills where needed.

That's the most infuriating part of how our country is run. Dominated by union members who are happy to have market forces apply when spending their money ... happily jumping on Ryanair flights, shopping in discount stores, pricing around tradesmen and insurance. PS workers always on the hunt for a bargain to suit themselves when parting with the cash but hide behind unions when unable to better their earnings off their own back.

A Dublin allowance should be given to all PS workers as well. Dublin may as well be a different country now it's earning potential and COL is no comparison to rest of Ireland.

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote: »

Yes, that's always been the case but because it is so union dominated market forces are not allowed to apply to attract skills where needed.

That's the most infuriating part of how our country is run. Dominated by union members who are happy to have market forces apply when spending their money ... happily jumping on Ryanair flights, shopping in discount stores, pricing around tradesmen and insurance. PS workers always on the hunt for a bargain to suit themselves when parting with the cash but hide behind unions when unable to better their earnings off their own back.

....we must realise, the market actually isnt fully capable of providing us with all of our needs, this has never been proven, this is fantasy story we ve been telling ourselves for decades now, its simply untrue. we must also recognise, since the deunionisation of our economies, we have experienced lower wage inflation, and significant increase in productivity and precariousness in employment, in both the public and private sectors, particularly in the private sector

NaFirinne

I hope the paycuts start with the Government salaries and bonuses

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

They really should try to get a job in the PS they are clearly obsessed with it. Any public service thread over the last 10 to 12 years they have been all over it like flies to a cow patch.

Yeah im living like a millionare on 420 a week....you'd wonder what the usual whingebags actually do for work as there here all day with long uninformed/incorrect tangents whinging about all the multi millionaires in the ps...they want best schools/doctors nurses, hosiptals/police etc but not pay for it

DubInMeath

DubInMeath wrote: »

For people who are supposed to be so busy working longer hours etc than people in the ps, they certainly seem to spend a lot of time on different threads alright.

bet you wont get an answer from the usual suspects..

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

I'm happy to counter the lies and myths from public sector workers.

I'm much better off where I am now rather than being a new entrant to the PS. Plus my industry pays much better in the private sector than public.

So you wouldn't qualify for public sector roles that pay the same salary as you are currently earning then. Interesting.

NaFirinne wrote: »

I hope the paycuts start with the Government salaries and bonuses

What bonuses are you referring to here please?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you wouldn't qualify for public sector roles that pay the same salary as you are currently earning then. Interesting.

Just like you didn't qualify for the public sector roles with starting pay the same as your current salary. Otherwise you'd be earning more than you do currently. Interesting.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

Just like you didn't qualify for the public sector roles with starting pay the same as your current salary. Otherwise you'd be earning more than you do currently. Interesting.

How did you work out what jobs I would or wouldn't qualify for?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How did you work out what jobs I would or wouldn't qualify for?

Didn't stop you making assumptions about what jobs I would or would not qualify for.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

Didn't stop you making assumptions about what jobs I would or would not qualify for.

You told us that the jobs you would qualify for don't pay at the your current salary level. No assumption - you told us.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You told us that the jobs you would qualify for don't pay at the your current salary level. No assumption - you told us.

And if you were starting in your job today, you would not be earning your current salary. I'm not sure why the concept of new entrant starting salaries is so confusing for you.

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

And if you were starting in your job today, you would not be earning your current salary. I'm not sure why the concept of new entrant starting salaries is so confusing for you.

There's no confusion at all. I've lived with public service salary scales for 20 years. I know how they work.

If the one scale isn't good enough for you, you aim for the next highest grade.

But you're the one who indicated that you wouldn't qualify for those grades that do match your current salary.

fliball123

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What?

I don't work in the public sector. I will. And I have done in the past. None of that is your business though.

The Scott Tenorman-level of whinging you and fliball do here everyday that misrepresents how governments and spending actually function and the importance of a civil service just shows up how irrelevant your thoughts in this whole field actually are.

It's rather fun to watch the flailing on a daily basis I might add.

But as I say, I'll think of you everyday as I sit on my ass drinking the coffee you have personally contributed to.

Yet you have not come up with any facts to prove us wrong instead when fact is put in front of you, you attack the man instead of the facts. I have given you link after link. You may think our thoughts are irrelevant to you but they are not. If enough people working in the private sector feel they are just going to bent over and raped to pay rich , poor and vested interest groups like the public sector they will simply leave or go into the black market or basically do anything do avoid paying tax. See how that goes for you. I will say it here now there is no way the public sector will be getting a pay rise in 2022. My prediction for next year lets see if it comes true.

fliball123

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Are you both really this ignorant!

The general public does not pay public sector workers, we are all paying taxes to service the debts that pay for our public services

So it will be our kids who pay it back is that what your saying so just keep borrowing and hoist over paid public sectors pay and pensions onto our kids..ehhhh no thanks.

Cluedo Monopoly

Treppen wrote: »

.... and also they never reveal their own job, pension, progression, bonuses, allowances, education, tax, tax relief is.

If ever I discuss tax with students they like to one-up each other about how their daddy avoids tax, puts everything under company, or in someone else name etc. etc. One kid got their phone, laptop, car... HOUSE for college, all under daddy's business.

I've never had a tradesman who didn't take cash only... Except for a boiler repair guy who was working for a company.

Your post makes little sense. The majority of private sector works are PAYE.

fliball123

Treppen wrote: »

.... and also they never reveal their own job, pension, progression, bonuses, allowances, education, tax, tax relief is.

If ever I discuss tax with students they like to one-up each other about how their daddy avoids tax, puts everything under company, or in someone else name etc. etc. One kid got their phone, laptop, car... HOUSE for college, all under daddy's business.

I've never had a tradesman who didn't take cash only... Except for a boiler repair guy who was working for a company.

And did you get a cheaper price because of this..?? Yeah you did as you would of had to pay the tax on top so you had a hand in the deceit if you didnt use them in the first place. This is one advantage the general public have when choosing a resource from within the private sector, if they are too expensive or you think they are dodgy or not paying tax you have the choice not to use them It goes on in the public sector too. Lots of websites up there for teachers giving grinds. I bet they pay tax on that.