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Public service pay cut?

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    #2072
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭enricoh


    gmisk wrote: »
    Not true
    Any department I have been in if you don't pass your PMDs you don't get an increment.

    What percentage don't get their increment?


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    #2073
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sinzo wrote: »
    Yes I agree, but on the street, I find that many people feel free to speak in a pejorative manner because I work for government. It's amazing how ignorant they can be and it is a lot more common place than it should be. They make sloppy generalisations in relation to us... it's a classic refrain that we are overpaid incompetent and lazy.

    Usually I have to argue our case on my own. At least in here there are plenty of posters who hold a more balanced view.

    No one is pretending that we are perfect. Who is. We generally try our best, are well qualified and are performing well in return for decent pay and conditions but also with some pride in what we do and with the culture of putting our customers first..

    just for the record: im perfect


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    #2074
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Not criticise, what have you done to deserve a pay rise that a private sector worker hasn’t? Not many in the private sector will be getting pay rises this year, many will get reductions, and as I have said, not many of the 26% who now find themselves unemployed are PSs

    In relation to taxes, not just income tax, I doubt you pay more tax than I do.

    Per euro earned? I bet I do or your accountants not very good. You yourself said any good business will wrangle out of taxes.

    I haven't gotten a raise. In October I get a small cost of living raise as part of a long standing wage agreement.

    The 26% aren't unemployed, the majority have or will return to work so stop with the fake narrative.

    What have I done? Continued to work, mandatory extra hours and had my conditions of employment changed overnight. While the 26% say at home. The difference? I'm essential.


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    #2075
    Sinzo
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Sinzo


    gmisk wrote: »
    Not true
    Any department I have been in if you don't pass your PMDs you don't get an increment.

    Yes Gmisk.. It's all a bit cringy and apparently part of our new focus on professionalism and performance. It mirrors the machinations of large private sector businesses and is a real American import.

    I suppose there is merit somewhere in it but I'm a bit cynical about it. Whether it is in the private sector or the public sector I'm not convinced it really achieves what it claims to..


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    #2076
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Dav010 wrote: »
    How many PSs lost their jobs since the middle of March? Current rate of unemployment is 26%.

    Now now dav that's trolling. In the parallel universe that is the public service they are actually getting an increase in pay at the end of the year!!
    It's to stop the PS all leaving to join the private sector apparently according to some poster on here!


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    #2077
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    enricoh wrote: »
    Now now dav that's trolling. In the parallel universe that is the public service they are actually getting an increase in pay at the end of the year!!
    It's to stop the PS all leaving to join the private sector apparently according to some poster on here!

    In the parallel universe that is the public sector, we all continued to be needed and in work. Largely because we run the machine. That's just the reality of it.

    I survived just fine without being offered the latest apple product by a commission based salesperson or called to see if I am happy with my serve provider

    (I exaggerate or course)


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    #2078
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    enricoh wrote: »
    What percentage don't get their increment?

    Don't know the %, but I haven't received one for years.

    But then, I'm a useless lazy b**tard and I'm already overpaid.


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    #2079
    Sinzo
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Sinzo


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    just for the record: im perfect

    Ha ha.. yes, of course you are... how could neglect to mention it... ;-)


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    #2080
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    enricoh wrote: »
    Now now dav that's trolling. In the parallel universe that is the public service they are actually getting an increase in pay at the end of the year!!
    It's to stop the PS all leaving to join the private sector apparently according to some poster on here!

    some parallel universe, with a mysterious portal hidden away on publicjobs.ie

    tis hardly ****in stargate man

    now a serious proposal:

    tax hikes for all, covering bringing low earners in, introducing a higher rate above 100k of say 70%

    lets get some quality public service going- and we can all agree that you have to pay for quality

    tax dodging in the self employed and private sector generally to get cracked down on like never before. seize houses, assets, freeze accounts and jail em.

    as part of this initiative, we can agree that underperforming public servants get scrutinised and have their increments looked at, and seriously underperforming public servants are at risk of being let go with a pay off (the most common outcome in the private sector- and dont let anyone tell you otherwise)

    pensions have already been addressed twice since the points most often raised by the most vocal proponents for public spending rigour in these threads- i think we can all agree thats plenty done there

    jesus thats a great days work folks. shall we give all that a whack and see how we go?


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    #2081
    Sinzo
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Sinzo


    enricoh wrote: »
    What percentage don't get their increment?

    That would be an operational issue and not the type of thing that people go around shouting about.

    I wonder, in those parts of the private sector where they also engage in this management technique, what percentage of the workforce dont get their increase or their bonus..

    Apart from where it involves numbers of units sold, I wonder how many other private workers are really affected by PMS.. sorry that was a typo, I meant PMDS..


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    #2082
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    enricoh wrote: »
    Now now dav that's trolling. In the parallel universe that is the public service they are actually getting an increase in pay at the end of the year!!
    It's to stop the PS all leaving to join the private sector apparently according to some poster on here!

    That's according to the independent review on wage structures in the PS.

    You think they'd be able to retain any staff if you stayed on the same wage for 40 years?


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    #2083
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,105 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Sinzo wrote: »
    Yes Gmisk.. It's all a bit cringy and apparently part of our new focus on professionalism and performance. It mirrors the machinations of large private sector businesses and is a real American import.

    I suppose there is merit somewhere in it but I'm a bit cynical about it. Whether it is in the private sector or the public sector I'm not convinced it really achieves what it claims to..
    I can see the point of it but in some places it is definitely not done well. I worked in one place it was 16 pages! Current one is about 4. Really useful if you want training etc imo. I did my masters because of it and a lot of other really good ICT training. But yeah some places it can be a bit of a box ticking exercise


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    #2084
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,105 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    enricoh wrote: »
    What percentage don't get their increment?
    I have no idea but I have heard of quite a few people not getting it.

    I have personally not given a high enough score (3) on two occasions for the person not to get an increment. People have taken it on the chin and knuckled down after.


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    #2085
    Chaos Black
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Chaos Black


    I am a Civil Servant working in an area that is very busy, understaffed and since March working additional overtime most days without time in lieu or extra pay and will be for the foreseeable (sounds like a temporary pay cut..).


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    #2086
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,410 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Public servants do not have higher pay. Like for like, they are paid less (significantly less in management or IT). The vast majority of them start off on 23k.

    No.


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    #2087
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Public servants do not have higher pay. Like for like, they are paid less (significantly less in management or IT). The vast majority of them start off on 23k.



    I suspect you are referring to civil servants here?


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    #2088
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Anyone find it weird?, people in the public sector in these threads have to always lay all their cards on the table.

    * how much they earn.
    * what their pension might be.
    * what they have to put in to be part of the pension scheme.
    * how they spend their money (most going to private sector btw!).
    * what their education is.
    * why they deserve a couple of % pay restoration.
    * Explain why a pay cut will stop them spending (into the private sector btw).
    * Explain why citizens needs nurses, guards, teachers, other public and civil servants.

    So if we are comparing public with private... Then why aren't we?

    Cards on the table if you wanna play.


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    #2089
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Public Vs private... Didn't you answer your own question?


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    #2090
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The problem with the public sector is not what they are paid, is the number of them that don't add any value.


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    #2091
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    It's funny how the people in the private sector choose pay and perks over security then when crisis hits the public sector should take a hit. As for the banking crisis, nothing to do with the public sector. Everyone chooses their line of work to some degree. If you aren't happy with your decision then change career and stop begrudging others their job security.


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    #2092
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,822 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The problem with the public sector is not what they are paid, is the number of them that don't add any value.

    How many is that?


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    #2093
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    It's funny how the people in the private sector choose pay and perks over security then when crisis hits the public sector should take a hit. As for the banking crisis, nothing to do with the public sector. Everyone chooses their line of work to some degree. If you aren't happy with your decision then change career and stop begrudging others their job security.

    Perhaps you are confused as to who pays public sector wages? How would you propose the government impact private wages?


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    #2094
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Perhaps you are confused as to who pays public sector wages? How would you propose the government impact private wages?

    Maybe you're confused at what the public sector do? Do you want to fire all nurses, doctors, guards etc then? Or pay them their contracted wages. Why don't you join the public sector?


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    #2095
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Perhaps you are confused as to who pays public sector wages? How would you propose the government impact private wages?

    Do you think the country could function without a public sector? Guess who pays for private sector items? Also the public sector ......goes both ways.


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    #2096
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Perhaps you are confused as to who pays public sector wages? How would you propose the government impact private wages?
    j


    By the way I'm curious do you think only the private sector pay taxes? Just join the public sector if you want the security. And why didn't you in the past? Better money? Better bonus? Better perks? Company car?


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    #2097
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    j


    By the way I'm curious do you think only the private sector pay taxes? Just join the public sector if you want the security. And why didn't you in the past? Better money? Better bonus? Better perks? Company car?

    We already established that we don't pay taxes. Addaworld said so


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    #2098
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    We already established that we don't pay taxes. Addaworld said so

    That's great I am owed thousands in thay case.


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    #2099
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    j


    By the way I'm curious do you think only the private sector pay taxes? Just join the public sector if you want the security. And why didn't you in the past? Better money? Better bonus? Better perks? Company car?
    Erm no, but you don't seem to understand the difference between public and private sector based on your initial post.
    You talked about why the public sector did take the hit, how do you think the government can cut costs without impacting the only employees they actually employ?
    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    Do you think the country could function without a public sector? Guess who pays for private sector items? Also the public sector ......goes both ways.
    Did I say anything remotely like that?:confused:

    What's a "private sector item"?
    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    Maybe you're confused at what the public sector do? Do you want to fire all nurses, doctors, guards etc then? Or pay them their contracted wages. Why don't you join the public sector?
    Ok you are clearly ranting now I'm afraid.
    Did I mention anything to do with firing ANY nurses, doctors or guards? I said there are too many public sector employees taking a wage and we, the public who pay for it, are getting nothing from them. How many people in the public sector have been fired in the last 5 years? How many have been deemed underperforming?
    How do either of those numbers compare to private sector numbers?
    Why would I join the public sector?
    Take a breath to read what I'm actually posting and you'll see that I'm not attacking all public sector workers in the slightest. If anything I'm trying to free up money for those who actually deliver value, rather than the job for life brigade.


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    #2100
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    How many is that?

    Do you think it's zero?


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    #2101
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Erm no, but you don't seem to understand the difference between public and private sector based on your initial post.
    You talked about why the public sector did take the hit, how do you think the government can cut costs without impacting the only employees they actually employ?


    Did I say anything remotely like that?:confused:

    What's a "private sector item"?


    Ok you are clearly ranting now I'm afraid.
    Did I mention anything to do with firing ANY nurses, doctors or guards? I said there are too many public sector employees taking a wage and we, the public who pay for it, are getting nothing from them. How many people in the public sector have been fired in the last 5 years? How many have been deemed underperforming?
    How do either of those numbers compare to private sector numbers?
    Why would I join the public sector?
    Take a breath to read what I'm actually posting and you'll see that I'm not attacking all public sector workers in the slightest. If anything I'm trying to free up money for those who actually deliver value, rather than the job for life brigade.

    But you don't actually know any of this. You are deciding things about a sector you probably know very little about. Ok so private sector services-hairdressers etc, private sector items-all goods ...thought you would be able to figure that part out.


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