Public service pay cut?

06-07-2020 12:19pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Erm if you remove these people there will be more money for everyone else who isn't incompetent without having to magically find more money from the budget?

Despite the knee-jerk reactions from the obvious PS posters, no one is saying that everyone is useless, just that there are a larger than should be number of people taking a large amount of money from *your* hands while also being useless. Their only skill is not being fired from a job that its pretty impossible to get fired from.

(I honestly thought that was obvious, but there ya go)

god i mean it is obvious, and youre not one of the really bad posters in the thread nor around the place greebo, but is a statement as facile as "public sector structure does not lend itself to absolute efficiency" not well discussed in the previous 200 pages or what?

im trying to be fair here!

not all private sector workers are heartless sneering cranks

not all private sector industry is profiteering pillage

not all public servants are amazing performers

the fact of our various missions and unionised protections allow some to get away with things they shouldnt

is that all a fair admission to have out of the way yet?

06-07-2020 12:31pm

fliball123 wrote: »

7% for a contribution to a defined benefit that very few in the private sector can afford. Pay the full costs please

No and I can't afford a Ferrari as has been said before, by me in fact to the same stupid comment. But well paid private sector staff can. You don't see anyone demanding they be denied though do you?

Read the thread. There have been others before you that made the same rubbish posts all of which have been answered. Probable by me again.

It industry generally gives free tech
Banking tend to get reduced cost loans and mortgages
Legal get free legal for themselves
Office admin gets to nick pens and paper for home
Flight staff get cheap flights
Fishermen get free fish
Senior Management tend to get shares
Sales staff get bonuses

I can go on but surely I have proven my point?

fliball123 · 06-07-2020 12:33pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No and I can't afford a Ferrari as has been said before, by me in fact to the same stupid comment. But well paid private sector staff can. You don't see anyone demanding they be denied though do you?

Read the thread. There have been others before you that made the same rubbish posts all of which have been answered. Probable by me again.

It industry generally gives free tech
Banking tend to get reduced cost loans and mortgages
Legal get free legal for themselves
Office admin gets to nick pens and paper for home
Flight staff get cheap flights
Fishermen get free fish
Senior Management tend to get shares
Sales staff get bonuses

I can go on but surely I have proven my point?

We cant afford your wage or you pension sorry we need to cut it. This is going to happen the same conversation went on here during the last recession and it will happen in this one. I just dont understand why they would pay an increment now which will have to be cut along with other cuts in a year or two

tayto lover · 06-07-2020 12:36pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Suckers for not being in a union?
I sense a theme here.

Yeah, I'm jealous of not being in a lower paid, unionized, public sector job alright.:rolleyes:

So why are you on here complaining then if they’re paid less and unionised?

06-07-2020 12:36pm

salonfire wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point.

If they are well paid, they are not losers which was the assertion by another poster that I was challenging.

Have you actually got a point in this thread? You seem to just be making pointless comments and then moving on and repeating.

That user was very clearly being tongue in cheek in response to the drivel being pasted here by a user who still went acknowledge that unions are in the private sector.

Now, have your for an actual point and are you willing to actually back it with proof? For the dim witted knuckle dragger that I am.

tayto lover · 06-07-2020 12:46pm

fliball123 wrote: »

We cant afford your wage or you pension sorry we need to cut it. This is going to happen the same conversation went on here during the last recession and it will happen in this one. I just dont understand why they would pay an increment now which will have to be cut along with other cuts in a year or two

So what’s the purpose of you always being on here whinging if you already know what’s going to happen down the line?

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 12:49pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

In your opinion, have you anything to say about the private sector unions that I have shown you twice now?

Anything to say about the union action you laughed at that I have shown you?

https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries/Ireland/Trade-Unions

On the basis of the Labour Force Survey figures, just under a quarter of employees (24%) were union members in 2018.

The Labour Force Survey does not break down union membership between the public and private sectors. However, figures from the ICTU show that union density is much higher in the public sector than in the private sector. Almost half of the ICTU’s membership in the Republic of Ireland (47.5%) is in the public sector. However, the public sector, including what are described as semi-state bodies, only amounts to around a fifth (20.5%) of all employees. [5].

In your opinion, are private sector unions even worth talking about, considering the small part they play for the vast majority or private sector workers?

I'll continue to laugh if you continue to think that a couple of noisy private sector unions has any bearing on the reality of working in the private sector for the majority of workers.

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 12:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

god i mean it is obvious, and youre not one of the really bad posters in the thread nor around the place greebo, but is a statement as facile as "public sector structure does not lend itself to absolute efficiency" not well discussed in the previous 200 pages or what?

im trying to be fair here!

not all private sector workers are heartless sneering cranks

not all private sector industry is profiteering pillage

not all public servants are amazing performers

the fact of our various missions and unionised protections allow some to get away with things they shouldnt

is that all a fair admission to have out of the way yet?

Your fairness is pretty biased I'm afraid. You use the most derogatory words to describe the private sector and the most flattering for the public sector, but anyway.

I'm also trying to be fair. Where exactly do you want this "promised restoration" to come from in the middle of a recession?
I've given my thoughts, it should come from removing the people in the public sector who dont earn their living, its handed to them despite their ineptitudes and the people in the public sector who simply dont need to be there, the admin and middle managers who are not adding any value.

So whats your answer? Where does the money come from?

06-07-2020 12:57pm

GreeBo wrote: »

https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries/Ireland/Trade-Unions

In your opinion, are private sector unions even worth talking about, considering the small part they play for the vast majority or private sector workers?

I'll continue to laugh if you continue to think that a couple of noisy private sector unions has any bearing on the reality of working in the private sector for the majority of workers.

Right so again, private sector does have unions. People are in those unions and those unions have gone on strike.

Correct?

Whether the people in a certain industry chose to join the union is neither here nor there. That's their decision but please note than when a union exists, even those not in the union benefit from collective bargaining as was seen in the tradename minumum wage agreements a number of years ago and again last year (https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/pay-increases-for-electrical-and-construction-workers-923235.html). Perhaps we should be reducing their wages now? They do after all work on public jobs.

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 1:00pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No and I can't afford a Ferrari as has been said before, by me in fact to the same stupid comment. But well paid private sector staff can. You don't see anyone demanding they be denied though do you?

Read the thread. There have been others before you that made the same rubbish posts all of which have been answered. Probable by me again.

Well lets take an adult, informed look shall we?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It industry generally gives free tech

*Do* they now? I must ask where all mine is!

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Banking tend to get reduced cost loans and mortgages

Ok...and?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Legal get free legal for themselves

Ok...and?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Office admin gets to nick pens and paper for home

"gets" to "nick"? Seems like a contradiction there...

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Flight staff get cheap flights

Ok...and?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Fishermen get free fish

Lol.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Senior Management tend to get shares

Do they? Must ask about mine so.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Sales staff get bonuses

Public sector workers never get bonuses?

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I can go on but surely I have proven my point?

Well I can't really tell what your point is to be honest, but I think you are perhaps unaware of BIK?
It *seems* to be that private sector has some perks that you somehow equate to the job for life in the public sector?

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 1:04pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So why are you on here complaining then if they’re paid less and unionised?

I'm complaining because my tax money goes towards paying some incompetent people who for some reason cannot be fired. (hint its because the unions would all strike)

What does the amount they get paid have to do with anything? I dont care if they are low or high paid, if they are useless I dont want them paid at all, I want them fired.

The fact that this doesnt occur to you tells me all I need to know about your opinion.
Public Sector = Untouchable.

06-07-2020 1:07pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Well lets take an adult, informed look shall we?

*Do* they now? I must ask where all mine is!

Ok...and?

Ok...and?

"gets" to "nick"? Seems like a contradiction there...

Ok...and?

Lol.

Do they? Must ask about mine so.

Public sector workers never get bonuses?

Well I can't really tell what your point is to be honest, but I think you are perhaps unaware of BIK?
It *seems* to be that private sector has some perks that you somehow equate to the job for life in the public sector?

You can't be this stupid. You cannot claim to be management and efficient and have such a complete lack of intelligence.

My very point is that ****ing bik exists in your industry and not mine. THAT'S THE EXACT ****ING POINT.

And by, I don't get bonuses. I get job security and a pension. That's the exact point I'm making.

But then considering you don't have the grace to admit you were wrong about private sector union activity not understand basic concepts I shall instead just ignore you as the liar you are.

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 1:07pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Right so again, private sector does have unions. People are in those unions and those unions have gone on strike.

Correct?

Whether the people in a certain industry chose to join the union is neither here nor there. That's their decision but please note than when a union exists, even those not in the union benefit from collective bargaining as was seen in the tradename minumum wage agreements a number of years ago and again last year (https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/pay-increases-for-electrical-and-construction-workers-923235.html). Perhaps we should be reducing their wages now? They do after all work on public jobs.

Sigh.
You just don't get it do you.
The vast, vast majority of private sector worker in this country dont fall back on unions, they dont have a job for life, they dont threaten the state with strike action and they have to work for a living of they get fired.

Thats the reality of life for the majority of private workers, but you carry on with your whataboutery there.

06-07-2020 1:12pm

Time to unfollow this thread. I can't deal with more idiots with superiority complexes but no knowledge of industrial relations and employment law.

Fyi everyone, dav10 the righteous is planning on becoming a landlord. A property invester so I think that says all we need to know about his honorable intentions.

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 1:28pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You can't be this stupid. You cannot claim to be management and efficient and have such a complete lack of intelligence.

My very point is that ****ing bik exists in your industry and not mine. THAT'S THE EXACT ****ING POINT.

And by, I don't get bonuses. I get job security and a pension. That's the exact point I'm making.

But then considering you don't have the grace to admit you were wrong about private sector union activity not understand basic concepts I shall instead just ignore you as the liar you are.

Ah, so your argument is that Mary in admin taking a few pens home to her kids balances out your job for life and pension?
Gotcha!

*you* might not personally get a bonus, but the public sector has indeed been in receipt of a bonus in the past. How many private sector people do you think are getting a bonus at the moment?

Yeah, I see you ignored my actual facts about the number of members of private sector unions?

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 1:30pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Time to unfollow this thread. I can't deal with more idiots with superiority complexes but no knowledge of industrial relations and employment law.

Fyi everyone, dav10 the righteous is planning on becoming a landlord. A property invester so I think that says all we need to know about his honorable intentions.

The fact that you cannot debate without resorting to posts of the calibre I have just quoted says all anybody needs to know.

fliball123 · 06-07-2020 2:01pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So what’s the purpose of you always being on here whinging if you already know what’s going to happen down the line?

Just arguing fact people in the PS get emotional and start offering stupid reasons for pay rises but forget the facts. We simply cant afford it we are going into a monster of a recession and the idea of paying more for a service that is not exactly great is just bonkers

runawaybishop · 06-07-2020 2:01pm

GreeBo wrote: »

So in your opinion there are no people in the public sector who are incompetent and just phoning it in everyday?

No doubt there are, I haven't come across them yet. All the people I work with are very good at their jobs. My management are head and shoulders above those I had in the private sector.

Dav010 · 06-07-2020 2:02pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Time to unfollow this thread. I can't deal with more idiots with superiority complexes but no knowledge of industrial relations and employment law.

Fyi everyone, dav10 the righteous is planning on becoming a landlord. A property invester so I think that says all we need to know about his honorable intentions.

No knowledge of employment law? From the guy who is certain that 40hrs is the maximum weekly hours that can be worked. Jesus wept.

You think being a landlord is dishonourable? It’s a bit of a sweeping statement, particularly as many PSs invested in property and are also LLs, or do you think only private sector employees invested?

Given your heightened powers of observation, where did you see that I am planning on becoming a LL?

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 2:04pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

No doubt there are, I haven't come across them yet. All the people I work with are very good at their jobs. My management are head and shoulders above those I had in the private sector.

Great, but that doesnt mean that I'm "Making stuff up doesn't help your arguments" now does it? Unless of course you think you have worked with the majority of public sector workers?

If you have then something doesnt add up as otherwise we wouldnt have people threatening to rollback on efficiencies? You cant be inefficient and good at your job.

Pogue eile · 06-07-2020 2:39pm

fliball123 wrote: »

In the public sector a lot of areas and employees are not fit for purpose, redundant or no longer needed and we are overpaying for them. Like I say an organisation that has 99.99999% increments for clock watching or for time served is a ridiculous waste of money , you could have someone working in there years and just going up the incremental scale and we have to pay for it.

fliball123 wrote: »

I cant understand why you are saying my figures (they are not mine I believe organisations like the CSO) are wrong, why would the CSO be lying?

:D you're a good one!

Treppen · 06-07-2020 3:10pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm complaining because my tax money goes towards paying some incompetent people who for some reason cannot be fired. (hint its because the unions would all strike)

What does the amount they get paid have to do with anything? I dont care if they are low or high paid, if they are useless I dont want them paid at all, I want them fired.

The fact that this doesnt occur to you tells me all I need to know about your opinion.
Public Sector = Untouchable.

How many is some? 1,2,5,100……?

The fact that you don't know there are incompetent people everywhere, (even in the private sector.... Shock horror) showed you have a specific grudge against the public sector.

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 3:26pm

Treppen wrote: »

How many is some? 1,2,5,100……?

The fact that you don't know there are incompetent people everywhere, (even in the private sector.... Shock horror) showed you have a specific grudge against the public sector.

A) Well the last time the had a test the numbers were massively skewed towards everyone being awesome, outside of the normal distribution, so at a minimum they are incompetent at rating incompetence

Sure there are incompetent people in the private sector, but they get fired
C) I don't pay anything towards anyone in the private sector so have no thoughts on them either way
D) I have a grudge against not getting value for my money, irrespective of it being for public servants or for Bill painting my house
E) The fact that you take any slight against the public sector as a personal attack would indicate (at least to me) which category of public sector worker you are

Pogue eile · 06-07-2020 3:34pm

GreeBo wrote: »

A) Well the last time the had a test the numbers were massively skewed towards everyone being awesome, outside of the normal distribution, so at a minimum they are incompetent at rating incompetence
Sure there are incompetent people in the private sector, but they get fired
C) I don't pay anything towards anyone in the private sector so have no thoughts on them either way
D) I have a grudge against not getting value for my money, irrespective of it being for public servants or for Bill painting my house
E) The fact that you take any slight against the public sector as a personal attack would indicate (at least to me) which category of public sector worker you are

C and D don't quite compute there genius!

Treppen · 06-07-2020 3:38pm

GreeBo wrote: »

A) Well the last time the had a test the numbers were massively skewed towards everyone being awesome, outside of the normal distribution, so at a minimum they are incompetent at rating incompetence
Sure there are incompetent people in the private sector, but they get fired
C) I don't pay anything towards anyone in the private sector so have no thoughts on them either way
D) I have a grudge against not getting value for my money, irrespective of it being for public servants or for Bill painting my house
E) The fact that you take any slight against the public sector as a personal attack would indicate (at least to me) which category of public sector worker you are

A) what are you raving about?

You ever tried to ring up a tradesman's boss to get him fired?
C) You don't pay anything towards the private sector, are you a hermit living off the grid or something?
D) so you have gotten Bill fired before yes? Pull the other one.
E) well done Colombo, What's your own job?

GreeBo · 06-07-2020 4:07pm

Treppen wrote: »

A) what are you raving about?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/civil-service-performance-review-deemed-failure-as-majority-pass-1.1621423
If you have a more up to date one then fire away. Nice tone by the way.

You ever tried to ring up a tradesman's boss to get him fired?

No, I fire the boss.

C) You don't pay anything towards the private sector, are you a hermit living off the grid or something?

No, I choose where my money goes.

D) so you have gotten Bill fired before yes? Pull the other one.

See

above, I fire Bill and whoever Bill works for. Thats how the real world (private sector) works, if you are bad at your job you get fired.

E) well done Colombo, What's your own job?

You wouldnt understand the context, its in the private sector.

fliball123 · 06-07-2020 5:03pm

GreeBo wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/civil-service-performance-review-deemed-failure-as-majority-pass-1.1621423
If you have a more up to date one then fire away. Nice tone by the way.

No, I fire the boss.
No, I choose where my money goes.
See above, I fire Bill and whoever Bill works for. Thats how the real world (private sector) works, if you are bad at your job you get fired.

You wouldnt understand the context, its in the private sector.

shush dont be saying things like that, actual accountability. The PS think that accountability is a nightmare hense, they don't bother with it. The increment fairy cures all their fears and of course like the last recession when 400k workers lost their job from the private sector and the public sector where cushioned no forced job losses anyone who did got a nice little redundancy package and some re hired as contractors. They will spin you yarns about cuts when one was a defined contribution to a pension benefit that us in the private sector cannot afford yet we are asked to cover the shortfall for their pensions. Their cuts have been well reversed with increments at this stage. You couldnt make this place up if you tried.

Increments while the world is in recession
Pensions being subsidised by the unwashed masses a lot of who cant afford their own pension
Scandal after scandal with in the public sector and how many firings??? Answers on a post card
Teachers thinking they shouldn't bother working at all they already get 3/4 months off anyway, sure phuck it leave the kids at home we will do a 10 minute zoom call every Monday and just dial it it in.

The sooner the IMF come back in here the better this has the feeling of last time , heads in the sand and not seeing the writing on the wall..

Pogue eile · 06-07-2020 5:31pm

fliball123 wrote: »

The quicker we get a second wave and get the IMF back in to do the cutting that all governments don't seem to have the stomach to do.

How do you honestly expect anyone to take you serious when you posted the above? A truly despicable and ignorant comment.

fliball123 · 06-07-2020 5:50pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

How do you honestly expect anyone to take you serious when you posted the above? A truly despicable and ignorant comment.

The second wave is expected by most medical experts and if the weekend is anything to go by in around Dame Lane you can bet your a$$ once flu season kicks in here there will be a second wave. Sorry if this is a bit scary for you and like I say no point in wasting a good recession cuts need to be made and I couldn't give a flying phuck what you think of me the facts are the facts and people like you tackle the man instead of the ball all the time instead of dealing with realities that we are as a country broke, badly in debt, losing tax payers by the day with no emigration valve to ease social welfare and borrowing billions a week. Add in a second wave of corona along with Brexit and the government think its ok to be giving pay rises to the public sector. If I wasn't living through it I would think that I have died and gone to public sector Walter Mitty heaven.

barneystinson · 06-07-2020 6:00pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Thats how the real world (private sector) works, if you are bad at your job you get fired.

I've worked roughly half my career to date in private sector and half in public, and I'm no dyed in the wool lefty or hardliner PS apologist, but reading this just nearly made me spit a mouthful of dinner across the room. :pac:

Are you actually serious?!

Public service pay cut?

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