Public service pay cut?

Pogue eile

fliball123 wrote: »

The second wave is expected by most medical experts and if the weekend is anything to go by in around Dame Lane you can bet your a$$ once flu season kicks in here there will be a second wave. Sorry if this is a bit scary for you and like I say no point in wasting a good recession cuts need to be made and I couldn't give a flying phuck what you think of me the facts are the facts and people like you tackle the man instead of the ball all the time instead of dealing with realities that we are as a country broke, badly in debt, losing tax payers by the day with no emigration valve to ease social welfare and borrowing billions a week. Add in a second wave of corona along with Brexit and the government think its ok to be giving pay rises to the public sector. If I wasn't living through it I would think that I have died and gone to public sector Walter Mitty heaven.

So you want more people to die so that the IMF can come in and save the day??

Seriously that's the scummiest thing I have ever seen or heard, I hope none of your loved ones lose their lives.

fliball123

Pogue eile wrote: »

So you want more people to die so that the IMF can come in and save the day??

Seriously that's the scummiest thing I have ever seen or heard, I hope none of your loved ones lose their lives.

Who said anything about dying? I am saying what is likely to happen according to most medical experts. I want the IMF in because government after government have proven they cant look after the finances is that ok with you stop spinning the argument away from what is needed and that is cuts to spending. If I said anything about people dying put the quote up here. I said the quicker we get the 2nd wave because its coming anyway the quicker we can get the countries finances sorted out.

enricoh

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Time to unfollow this thread. I can't deal with more idiots with superiority complexes but no knowledge of industrial relations and employment law.

Fyi everyone, dav10 the righteous is planning on becoming a landlord. A property invester so I think that says all we need to know about his honorable intentions.

A landlord, Jesus dav say it ain't so, what next? Buying shares?!! I've lost all respect for ya!!

Dav010

enricoh wrote: »

A landlord, Jesus dav say it ain't so, what next? Buying shares?!! I've lost all respect for ya!!

https://media1.tenor.com/images/3c1dcb4992760e5fd4cb49a81151a290/tenor.gif?itemid=15322458

Pogue eile

fliball123 wrote: »

Who said anything about dying? I am saying what is likely to happen according to most medical experts. I want the IMF in because government after government have proven they cant look after the finances is that ok with you stop spinning the argument away from what is needed and that is cuts to spending. If I said anything about people dying put the quote up here. I said the quicker we get the 2nd wave because its coming anyway the quicker we can get the countries finances sorted out.

Like a lot of what you are saying, none of it makes any sense!


The sooner the better we get a second wave of COVID - did you or did you not say that? And what would the immediate consequences of that second wave be??

Think carefully before answering now this time. I would hate for you to be somehow perceived as a self serving, elitist, heartless cretin.

GreeBo

barneystinson wrote: »

I've worked roughly half my career to date in private sector and half in public, and I'm no dyed in the wool lefty or hardliner PS apologist, but reading this just nearly made me spit a mouthful of dinner across the room. :pac:

Are you actually serious?!

How many people have you seen fired in your career and how many were in each group?

Put it this way, if you were crap at your job, all other things being equal, would you rather be public or private?


/edit
Irish Times article form 2017
"Just 55 of 37,000 civil servants have lost their jobs in the past decade"

How do you reckon that compares to private sector?

tayto lover

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm complaining because my tax money goes towards paying some incompetent people who for some reason cannot be fired. (hint its because the unions would all strike)

What does the amount they get paid have to do with anything? I dont care if they are low or high paid, if they are useless I dont want them paid at all, I want them fired.

The fact that this doesnt occur to you tells me all I need to know about your opinion.
Public Sector = Untouchable.

So your main problem is Unions and the protection they offer to workers.
I have worked in both sectors. I’m retired now.
I would totally back up Unions because of my experiences over the years I the Private Sector mainly in London. You could be fired for absolutely no reason and victimised too. Only people who worked where there was no union will actually appreciate what it’s like to work with a safety net. It’s good that they now have the protection of a Union imo. I remember a time in a particular job where workers were given three sheets of toilet paper to use, yes three sheets,or they had to take in their own. Thank God times have changed.
Many Public Sector workers now have contracts I believe so if they’re not doing their jobs properly then the contract is not renewed.
I presume you lads are young and would not have much experience otherwise you wouldn’t have those views.

GreeBo

tayto lover wrote: »

So your main problem is Unions and the protection they offer to workers.
I have worked in both sectors. I’m retired now.
I would totally back up Unions because of my experiences over the years I the Private Sector mainly in London. You could be fired for absolutely no reason and victimised too. Only people who worked where there was no union will actually appreciate what it’s like to work with a safety net. It’s good that they now have the protection of a Union imo. I remember a time in a particular job where workers were given three sheets of toilet paper to use, yes three sheets,or they had to take in their own. Thank God times have changed.
Many Public Sector workers now have contracts I believe so if they’re not doing their jobs properly then the contract is not renewed.
I presume you lads are young and would not have much experience otherwise you wouldn’t have those views.

No, again my main issue is taxpayer money (my money and yours) rewarding incompetence.

No, I'm not "young", not that you have to be old to spot incompetence.

Anyway, we are talking about Ireland, you cant just be fired for no reason and if you choose to work in a job where you are given 3 sheets of toilet paper, who's fault is that?

Pogue eile

GreeBo wrote: »

if you choose to work in a job where you are given 3 sheets of toilet paper, who's fault is that?

Kind of goes against your entire argument on this thread doesn't it??

tayto lover

GreeBo wrote: »

No, again my main issue is taxpayer money (my money and yours) rewarding incompetence.

No, I'm not "young", not that you have to be old to spot incompetence.

Anyway, we are talking about Ireland, you cant just be fired for no reason and if you choose to work in a job where you are given 3 sheets of toilet paper, who's fault is that?

Management’s fault of course.
It happens in Ireland too let me tell you and there’s an old saying that didn’t come about by accident i.e authority always backs authority. So there’s not much point complaining but if you’re in a unionised job that’s unlikely to happen.
Also people in all sectors pay tax.

GreeBo

tayto lover wrote: »

Management’s fault of course.
It happens in Ireland too let me tell you and there’s an old saying that didn’t come about by accident i.e authority always backs authority. So there’s not much point complaining but if you’re in a unionised job that’s unlikely to happen.
Also people in all sectors pay tax.

Sorry but I have no idea what point you are making in that post.
If you are private then change manager
If you are public then so is your manager

Phrases like authority backs authority sound great but are meaningless. In what sector is it true, public or private?
If you read my post you can clearly see I said everyone's tax.

SouthWesterly

Dav010 wrote: »

And you probably wonder why there is such antipathy toward the PS. The detachment from reality really is nauseating. The government confirms the increase, the recession will take care of itself. You summed it up perfectly.

I was in the private sector for 30 years. I worked a 37 hour week.
Where's your problem with civil servants working that as well.?

SouthWesterly

fliball123 wrote: »

What part of what I said is disingenuous do you dispute any of the figures I have stated?? They are the facts and no amount of whinging and moaning by either side will change the facts.

Do you want to respond to what I said or just have a rant?

SouthWesterly

fliball123 wrote: »

Perhaps but you have the option of not getting the job done and therefore not paying. In the public sector a lot of areas and employees are not fit for purpose, redundant or no longer needed and we are overpaying for them. Like I say an organisation that has 99.99999% increments for clock watching or for time served is a ridiculous waste of money , you could have someone working in there years and just going up the incremental scale and we have to pay for it.

Have you got a link to back up your illusions?

Dav010

SouthWesterly wrote: »

I was in the private sector for 30 years. I worked a 37 hour week.
Where's your problem with civil servants working that as well.?

I have none, 37 hours is not long hours, it’s probably typical, if slightly below the average in Ireland of 39 hours. The way some posters are going on about long hours and extra hours agreed to in 2013 led me to think you guys were slaving away, turns out the 2013 brought most PSs up to just below the average working week. Poor lambs.

fliball123

Pogue eile wrote: »

Like a lot of what you are saying, none of it makes any sense!


The sooner the better we get a second wave of COVID - did you or did you not say that? And what would the immediate consequences of that second wave be??

Think carefully before answering now this time. I would hate for you to be somehow perceived as a self serving, elitist, heartless cretin.

I did say it but did I say anything about people dying, The second wave is coming weather you or I like it or not

fliball123

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Do you want to respond to what I said or just have a rant?

I did respond I want you dispute where I am wrong in my figures , but you cant and you deflect

tayto lover

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry but I have no idea what point you are making in that post.
If you are private then change manager
If you are public then so is your manager

Phrases like authority backs authority sound great but are meaningless. In what sector is it true, public or private?
If you read my post you can clearly see I said everyone's tax.

I believe you know exactly what I mean. I’m done with you as you’re just on a witch-hunt or a wind up.

Sabella

Dav010 wrote: »

I have none, 37 hours is not long hours, it’s probably typical, if slightly below the average in Ireland of 39 hours. The way some posters are going on about long hours and extra hours agreed to in 2013 led me to think you guys were slaving away, turns out the 2013 brought most PSs up to just below the average working week. Poor lambs.

I’m fairness dav you don’t really have any idea the hours individuals in varying departments would work which makes your last comment quite telling and a little immature, many public sector workers as well as private sectors workers work beyond their allotted or contracted hours. In fact didn’t you post the 2013 agreement and state the extra hours I worked were illegal?

Dav010

Sabella wrote: »

I’m fairness dav you don’t really have any idea the hours individuals in varying departments would work which makes your last comment quite telling and a little immature, many public sector workers as well as private sectors workers work beyond their allotted or contracted hours. In fact didn’t you post the 2013 agreement and state the extra hours I worked were illegal?

Sabella, unless you are one of the categories excluded from the OWT Act, working 60-70 hours per week far exceeds the maximum legal hours allowed.

The agreement actually lays out the hours to be worked, the poster I responded to said he/she worked 37 hours per week, what would you have me assume?

Sabella

Dav010 wrote: »

I have none, 37 hours is not long hours, it’s probably typical, if slightly below the average in Ireland of 39 hours. The way some posters are going on about long hours and extra hours agreed to in 2013 led me to think you guys were slaving away, turns out the 2013 brought most PSs up to just below the average working week. Poor lambs.

You sweep broadly with these comments and don’t expect someone to respond? Remember the reason I initially posted was just to open your eyes to the fact that it is foolish to assume that all PS workers are the same.

We could dissect semi state, public sector and the private sector finding faults in all of them and of course their are inefficiencies in all of them but maybe rather than berating put forward logical solutions to these issues

Dav010

Sabella wrote: »

You sweep broadly with these comments and don’t expect someone to respond? Remember the reason I initially posted was just to open your eyes to the fact that it is foolish to assume that all PS workers are the same.

We could dissect semi state, public sector and the private sector finding faults in all of them and of course their are inefficiencies in all of them but maybe rather than berating put forward logical solutions to these issues

Sabella, I’m not sweeping broadly, I read the agreement, the extra hours agreed are stated in it, they brought most Public Servants up to just slightly below the average hours worked per week in Ireland . Snoopsheep is whining that he had to work extra hours as part of the agreement, yet that still didn’t bring/him up to the average for this country. Southwesterly asked what I had against someone working 37 hours like he/she does, nothing is the answer to that, I think he/she is lucky to be working a couple of hours less than the average. But I don’t think that deserves a pay increase at a time when there are so many people losing their jobs and having their hours reduced.

thomasdylan

Sabella wrote: »

I’m fairness dav you don’t really have any idea the hours individuals in varying departments would work which makes your last comment quite telling and a little immature, many public sector workers as well as private sectors workers work beyond their allotted or contracted hours. In fact didn’t you post the 2013 agreement and state the extra hours I worked were illegal?

I'd love to know what job you do in the PS. Only gardai, the army and doctors are excluded from EWTD. Those groups are only a small part of the PS.

Sabella

Dav010 wrote: »

Sabella, I’m not sweeping broadly, I read the agreement, the extra hours agreed are stated in it, they brought most Public Servants up to just slightly below the average hours worked per week in Ireland . Snoopsheep is whining that he had to work extra hours as part of the agreement, yet that still didn’t bring/him up to the average for this country. Southwesterly asked what I had against someone working 37 hours like he/she does, nothing is the answer to that, I think he/she is lucky to be working a couple of hours less than the average. But I don’t think that deserves a pay increase at a time when there are so many people losing their jobs and having their hours reduced.

Okay point taken

Sabella

thomasdylan wrote: »

I'd love to know what job you do in the PS. Only gardai, the army and doctors are excluded from EWTD. Those groups are only a small part of the PS.

Good to know but I haven’t asked anyone their role or profession and I won’t be outlining mine, I’m a bit long in the tooth to be on here lying about my hours or anything like that. I wanted to make a point about ps workers which I have and again I will say that many are contracted to work a certain amount of hours and they work beyond those hours in order to complete their work, I’ve also stated that many in the private sector do this too. It may be ‘illegal’ but it is also an accepted thing in certain parts of the ps and I imagine in some private sector areas too

As I have said before I’m happy to have my pay Scale frozen in order to ensure the country gets back up and running I’m just standing up for those who do work their back side off regularly, while loving their job

thomasdylan

Sabella wrote: »

Good to know but I haven’t asked anyone their role or profession and I won’t be outlining mine, I’m a bit long in the tooth to be on here lying about my hours or anything like that. I wanted to make a point about ps workers which I have and again I will say that many are contracted to work a certain amount of hours and they work beyond those hours in order to complete their work, I’ve also stated that many in the private sector do this too. It may be ‘illegal’ but it is also an accepted thing in certain parts of the ps and I imagine in some private sector areas too

As I have said before I’m happy to have my pay Scale frozen in order to ensure the country gets back up and running I’m just standing up for those who do work their back side off regularly, while loving their job

You're a teacher aren't you?

60-70 hours a week for you every week. Including holidays? Sure thing. Sounds like a time management issue.

There are public sector workers who do work those hours and I'm one of them. You aren't.

Pogue eile

fliball123 wrote: »

I did say it but did I say anything about people dying, The second wave is coming weather you or I like it or not

So you want a second wave, that doesn't kill anyone but require the IMF to return to Ireland?

Good luck with that!

Sabella

Sabella wrote: »

Good to know but I haven’t asked anyone their role or profession and I won’t be outlining mine, I’m a bit long in the tooth to be on here lying about my hours or anything like that. I wanted to make a point about ps workers which I have and again I will say that many are contracted to work a certain amount of hours and they work beyond those hours in order to complete their work, I’ve also stated that many in the private sector do this too. It may be ‘illegal’ but it is also an accepted thing in certain parts of the ps and I imagine in some private sector areas too

As I have said before I’m happy to have my pay Scale frozen in order to ensure the country gets back up and running I’m just standing up for those who do work their back side off regularly, while loving their job

this would be my attitude, id defer the agreement that was planned this year until this calms down/gets up an running...im barely earning more that the covid payment...got an increased workload and told to still come in as normal

Sabella

thomasdylan wrote: »

You're a teacher aren't you?

60-70 hours a week for you every week. Including holidays? Sure thing. Sounds like a time management issue.

There are public sector workers who do work those hours and I'm one of them. You aren't.

Okay then, not really sure where you want to go with this my friend, who said anything about holidays?

You say there are public sector workers who do those hours, and you are one of them, again I’m not sure what you want me to say to that? I actually said there was in the previous post and another previous post.

Then you say I’m not one of them, this has been quite a roller coaster ride. But again it’s not important the area I work in really wether it’s foreign affairs or whatever

thomasdylan

Sabella wrote: »

Okay then, not really sure where you want to go with this my friend, who said anything about holidays?

You say there are public sector workers who do those hours, and you are one of them, again I’m not sure what you want me to say to that? I actually said there was in the previous post and another previous post.

Then you say I’m not one of them, this has been quite a roller coaster ride. But again it’s not important the area I work in really wether it’s foreign affairs or whatever

I think if you say you work 60-70 hours a week in the PS, it's important to say if you also have 12+ weeks more holidays than the rest of the PS.

I'm sure you do have 70 hour weeks but the majority of the hours you say you do are unverifiable.