Public service pay cut?

Treppen

thomasdylan wrote: »

I think if you say you work 60-70 hours a week in the PS, it's important to say if you also have 12+ weeks more holidays than the rest of the PS.

I'm sure you do have 70 hour weeks but the majority of the hours you say you do are unverifiable.

What's your job and how many hours do you work... that we can varify?

thomasdylan

Treppen wrote: »

What's your job and how many hours do you work... that we can varify?

Doctor, my hours are rostered. Minimum 60. Between that and 80 hours usually. Sometimes a bit over 80.

Sabella

I’m not a teacher my friend, leave those poor sods alone they have enough to deal with. And I might I don’t begrudge them their holidays as I am sure it is a tough profession from the outside looking in.

Again you say you are sure I do have 70 hour weeks but the majority of hours are unverifiable. Take a leap of faith and believe me from one public sector worker to another. Why should I believe you? I just do because if someone says they do those hours and love their job they are not complaining it’s just the way it is. Remember I moved from the private sector at a later age so I ain’t complaining. I have plenty of self employed friends who work those hours and more at times and they love their work.

I feel a lot of people are exasperated at the public service and I am purely trying to explain that there are many areas who do work hard and are dedicated to their work

Sabella

Sabella wrote: »

I’m not a teacher my friend, leave those poor sods alone they have enough to deal with. And I might I don’t begrudge them their holidays as I am sure it is a tough profession from the outside looking in.

Again you say you are sure I do have 70 hour weeks but the majority of hours are unverifiable. Take a leap of faith and believe me from one public sector worker to another. Why should I believe you? I just do because if someone says they do those hours and love their job they are not complaining it’s just the way it is. Remember I moved from the private sector at a later age so I ain’t complaining. I have plenty of self employed friends who work those hours and more at times and they love their work.

I feel a lot of people are exasperated at the public service and I am purely trying to explain that there are many areas who do work hard and are dedicated to their work

majority are just uneducated in what we/they actually do tbf...telling my friends what i actually do was an eye opener for some of them

Dav010

Sabella wrote: »

I’m not a teacher my friend, leave those poor sods alone they have enough to deal with. And I might I don’t begrudge them their holidays as I am sure it is a tough profession from the outside looking in.

Sabella wrote: »

I am a member of the TUI and as unions go they seem reactive rather than being pro active.

Odd couple of posts.

Sabella

Was a teacher previously dav but no longer moved away from it, my qualifications helped me move to another area of the public sector

thomasdylan

Sabella wrote: »

Was a teacher previously dav but no longer moved away from it, my qualifications helped me move to another area of the public sector

So you were a teacher and in the TUI a few months ago and left. Now you are working elsewhere in the PS an say "I am sure it (teaching) is a tough profession from the outside looking in."

I'm starting to think maybe you weren't telling the truth about doing 70 hours a week.

Sabella

thomasdylan wrote: »

So you were a teacher and in the TUI a few months ago and left. Now you are working elsewhere in the PS an say "I am sure it (teaching) is a tough profession from the outside looking in."

I'm starting to think maybe you weren't telling the truth about doing 70 hours a week.

No unfortunately a typo my part in that older post, It should have said was, poor effort on my part I had even picked up on it until dav Pointed it out. Prior to that I was an electrician and returned to college and that led to teaching and gaining more qualifications.

Haven’t taught in quite a number of years but still having friends who do I still have an interest in that area. It has changed a good bit since I taught as well as the working conditions have too which is why I say from the outside looking in and why I have the greatest respect for them.

Again I have no reason to lie to you in fact I am supporting Public service workers. I work the hours I work, I am not complaining as I love my work.

thomasdylan

Public

Treppen

thomasdylan wrote: »

Doctor, my hours are rostered. Minimum 60. Between that and 80 hours usually. Sometimes a bit over 80.

Can you verify any of those hours?

Sabella

thomasdylan wrote: »

Public

Okay thanks fixed now

thomasdylan

Treppen wrote: »

Can you verify any of those hours?

What like send you a picture of my roster and timesheet?

Ireland isn't compliant with EWTD at all. There's 24 shifts in every hospital in the country.

thomasdylan

Sabella wrote: »

Okay thanks fixed now

Sorry, that was a reply to a question about if i worked public/private. I think it was deleted

I hate it when people correct spelling so wasn't doing that.

Sabella

thomasdylan wrote: »

Sorry, that was a reply to a question about if i worked public/private. I think it was deleted

I hate it when people correct spelling so wasn't doing that.

No problem at all no offence taken, in fact I could probably do with someone proof reading my posts as we can see from what Dav pointed out from a previous post.

I contributed to this thread really in an effort to highlight the good work many Public service workers provide and that they genuinely earn and deserve their crust. Across all professions and sectors of societies there are inefficiencies and areas for improvement which may always be the case. I would again just reinforce that I would be happy with a pay freeze in order to help the economy and to help Irish society to get back on its feet but if my salary was cut it would impact myself and my family having family members who lost their jobs as a result of the pandemic.

I have no other agenda other than that

Treppen

thomasdylan wrote: »

I think if you say you work 60-70 hours a week in the PS, it's important to say if you also have 12+ weeks more holidays than the rest of the PS.

I'm sure you do have 70 hour weeks but the majority of the hours you say you do are unverifiable.

thomasdylan wrote: »

What like send you a picture of my roster and timesheet?

Ireland isn't compliant with EWTD at all. There's 24 shifts in every hospital in the country.

I don't know, I'll put it up to you since you are questioning the verification of other public sector hours worked.
Do you want us to verify our hours on here, or have you some other verification system in mind to satisfy your request?

SouthWesterly

fliball123 wrote: »

I did respond I want you dispute where I am wrong in my figures , but you cant and you deflect

You've made the claim, now back it up.

SouthWesterly

Dav010 wrote: »

Sabella, I’m not sweeping broadly, I read the agreement, the extra hours agreed are stated in it, they brought most Public Servants up to just slightly below the average hours worked per week in Ireland . Snoopsheep is whining that he had to work extra hours as part of the agreement, yet that still didn’t bring/him up to the average for this country. Southwesterly asked what I had against someone working 37 hours like he/she does, nothing is the answer to that, I think he/she is lucky to be working a couple of hours less than the average. But I don’t think that deserves a pay increase at a time when there are so many people losing their jobs and having their hours reduced.

But you ignore that I said I was private sector for 30 years and worked 37 hours.

So are you going to give up using public services to help the government with its overspend in providing them?

Funny no one who decries the public sector are willing to answer that one. Not when it hits their lives. Let it be the ones providing those services who take the hit.
It's someone else's responsibility it seems.

thomasdylan

Treppen wrote: »

I don't know, I'll put it up to you since you are questioning the verification of other public sector hours worked.
Do you want us to verify our hours on here, or have you some other verification system in mind to satisfy your request?

It's simple. My hours are rostered and on site. EWTD non compliance is well documented.

On the other hand there are people who claim to put in loads of hours at home and this is very hard to verify.

GreeBo

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe you know exactly what I mean. I’m done with you as you’re just on a witch-hunt or a wind up.

No I honestly have no idea what point your post was trying to make, assuming there was one?

I want value for my money, if you think that's s witch hunt or wind up I can't help you.

Dav010

SouthWesterly wrote: »

But you ignore that I said I was private sector for 30 years and worked 37 hours.

So are you going to give up using public services to help the government with its overspend in providing them?

Funny no one who decries the public sector are willing to answer that one. Not when it hits their lives. Let it be the ones providing those services who take the hit.
It's someone else's responsibility it seems.

I didn’t ignore it, if you were in the private sector now you wouldn’t be getting a wage increase. There have been a few PS posters on here whining that they took a wage cut AND had to work extra hours in 2013, the fact is, and you confirmed this yourself, the extra hours that they have to do just brought them into line with the private sector. I thought the way they were going on that they were all hitting 48 hours a week until I read the agreement.

No one is giving up the PSs and I do not think there should be pay cuts, there just should NOT be pay increases when employment rate in 24% and a high percentage of businesses will not be giving pay increases, with many reducing pay. Head over to the work problems thread, lots of posters there saying they have been put on part time or had to take 10% pay cuts.

Get down off the cross SW, you are not taking much of a hit by foregoing a 2% increase, the quarter of the work age population who are unemployed today would argue they are in a much worse position.

Treppen

thomasdylan wrote: »

It's simple. My hours are rostered and on site. EWTD non compliance is well documented.

On the other hand there are people who claim to put in loads of hours at home and this is very hard to verify.

So what do you suggest?

Treppen

Dav010 wrote: »

I didn’t ignore it, if you were in the private sector now you wouldn’t be getting a wage increase. There have been a few PS posters on here whining that they took a wage cut AND had to work extra hours in 2013, the fact is, and you confirmed this yourself, the extra hours that they have to do just brought them into line with the private sector. I thought the way they were going on that they were all hitting 48 hours a week until I read the agreement.

No one is giving up the PSs and I do not think there should be pay cuts, there just should NOT be pay increases when employment rate in 24% and a high percentage of businesses will not be giving pay increases, with many reducing pay. Head over to the work problems thread, lots of posters there saying they have been put on part time or had to take 10% pay cuts.

Get down off the cross SW, you are not taking much of a hit by foregoing a 2% increase, the quarter of the work age population who are unemployed today would argue they are in a much worse position.

So if we're off the cross and foregone the wage restoration, and likewise cut our own spending, how will that help the private sector?

What will the government do with this extra cash, to increase employment in the private sector?

fliball123

SouthWesterly wrote: »

You've made the claim, now back it up.

My claim is this have a look at the below 7 points and if you dispute any of the below 7 points and make a valid argument for pay rises in the public sector I would love to hear it?

240 billion in debt and at least another 15Bilion next year

Borrowing billions a week

Currently 20%+ more on social welfare that were once tax payers

Already some high profile companies have hit the wall, such as Debenhams, a lot of pubs and other companies in the private sector are sheding jobs as well and some will just not be reopening and this is just the tipping point. Look at the U.S
https://www.forbes.com/sites/hanktucker/2020/05/03/coronavirus-bankruptcy-tracker-these-major-companies-are-failing-amid-the-shutdown/#33a02daa3425

No emigration release valve for people to leave meaning more welfare

A very high likelihood of a second wave, you only have to look at Dame Lane over the weekend to understand that some people are being very reckless this will have a further impact on job losses, tax take and welfare payments.

Brexit to kick in with in the next 2 years


Now what we have been hung up on as its a throw back to the last recession and the below arguments are no longer needed to be fought as Public sector will have their view and then there will be the truth so there is no need to continue arguing the below points as the corona virus/up coming recession has superseded them.

Is it a pay rise or pay restoration

Did the public sector contribute more to the debt than any bank.

Did the PS deserve 2 bouts of benchmarking/ Why cant benchmarking we used to bring down wage?

Do PS deserve to get increments no matter how good bad or ugly they are

Have the PS had any forced job losses in the last recession or when they make a b0ll0x of things as pointed out the different scandals that have come out.

Do the public sector pay enough to cover the full costs of their pensions.


So lets not get bogged down anymore with old arguments I am tired winning the argument all the time as you guys have hearsay and very little proof. No point in playing the man either as so many in the P.S do when facts are there in front of them they don't like to deal with reality. So deal with the 7 points I have listed above in bold and make a valid argument why PS wage should be getting a pay rise when the world economy is going into the toilet ?

barneystinson

fliball123 wrote: »

Do the public sector pay enough to cover the full costs of their pensions.

You and your obsession with this. Why should they? Because Fliball (who won't bother his arse to educate himself as to the level of employer's contribution typically made by private sector employers) says so?

fliball123

barneystinson wrote: »

You and your obsession with this. Why should they? Because Fliball (who won't bother his arse to educate himself as to the level of employer's contribution typically made by private sector employers) says so?

Jesus answer the question do public servants pay the full cost of their pension? Can we move the debat on have a look at my previous post?

barneystinson

fliball123 wrote: »

Jesus answer the question do public servants pay the full cost of their pension? Can we move the debat on have a look at my previous post?

Who said they do?

fliball123

barneystinson wrote: »

Who said they do?

Some on here do, so if they don't pay the full cost who picks up the tab for the rest?

Dav010

Treppen wrote: »

So if we're off the cross and foregone the wage restoration, and likewise cut our own spending, how will that help the private sector?

What will the government do with this extra cash, to increase employment in the private sector?

Treppen, surely you understand that the optics aren’t great at a time when unemployment is at 24%. And at a time when the State is having to borrow enormously, paying State employees a wage increase should be unthinkable. Like all employers, the State should cut their clothe according to their measure.

Extra cash? What extra cash will the Government have when they are borrowing billions? Seriously, the lack of awareness is sickening.

Lux23

I think it would be unfair not to give healthcare workers their pay increase after everything they have been through, but the problem with that is you can't withhold pay increases from other parts of the sector. I would gladly postpone it myself.

fliball123

Lux23 wrote: »

I think it would be unfair not to give healthcare workers their pay increase after everything they have been through, but the problem with that is you can't withhold pay increases from other parts of the sector. I would gladly postpone it myself.

Well can we take some cash off the teachers who have done little or nothing over the corona virus lockdown and give it to them. healthcare workers have come out with a lot of glory over the pandemic but there are still things wrong in that area of spend we overspend and get a poor return for it. The money is not there as much as I would like to see hard working people rewarded its just not doable at the moment.