Public service pay cut?

Dav010

helpful wrote: »

So good teachers are the outliers based on what exactly? How do you teach 5 year olds on zoom for 5 hours a day when their household has one computer and their parents are working from home? It’s not possible so the next best thing is google classroom and other similar sites. Every teacher I know was still teaching throughout COVID-19 obviously not as they would have in the classroom.
If hospitals had to close nurses wouldn’t have been able to do the job the same way they do now.
If teachers refuse to return to the classroom in September there’ll be a good reason for it. Why should they be the only profession that returns with lesser measures in place? Teachers are not there to babysit children while their parents are in work. Any teacher who refuses to return for no reason should be put on covid payment though obviously.

Teachers should learn to minimise risk the same way every other worker who has gone back has had to do. Their employer, in most cases the State, should provide hand sanitizer and masks to students if they want. But if they refuse to go back to work when schools open, under no circumstances should they continue to be paid, at best, they should have pay reduced to the €350 Covid payment, at worst, they should get the standard unemployment benefit.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

You should show more gratitude.

Ask my hole I phucking pay a lot of taxes for a scandal ridden over paid under worked, cushioned sector of society. Scandals that go back 30/40 year in some areas. I will highlight 2 areas of the public sector. the garda and the HSE and just off the top of my head

Garda Heavy Gang Scandal
Garda Kerry Babies Scandal
Outcome of the Morris Tribunal
The shooting of John Carthy
Outcome of the Smithwick tribunal
Kieran Boylan drug case
MacLochlainn Commission
misuse of the Pulse system
Initial reports into Sgt Maurice McCabe allegations
“Bugging” of Garda Ombudsman
Garda whistle blower scandal
Garda Breathliser blowing scandal/Phantom alcohol tests, wrongful convictions
Cevical check scandal including paying tony O'Brien its leader a 100k payoff to go
Grace/Foster home scandal
Trolley number scandal
Death of Death of Savita Halappanavar
Leas Cross scandal
X-ray scandals
Death of Susie Long
Mother and baby scandal
Waiting list scandal

I could continue this list if I googled and I could also add in the teaching profession and Politicians but I could be here all day typing

Yeah now should I show more gratitude or should I be asking the question why am I paying so much for a poor service that has shown scandal after scandal and all that is ever done is a tribunal set up , bosses paid to leave and the gravy train continues.

barneystinson

fliball123 wrote: »

The overall fact is that the tax payer picks up the tab for all costs of public sector defined benefit (very few of these in the private sector) pensions. They should be changed to defined contribution or stopped completely and allow the ps to get the OAP, I reckon that would even the playing field. I know the PS pay something towards their pension the argument I have been making is that what they pay comes no where near covering it. I have been trying to get this through you head for the last decade and you refuse to see the 2 sectors and how badly it is swayed in favor of public sector pensions and how wrong that is.

PS pension is guaranteed and at no risk of the government raiding it and at no risk to the markets and we get to pay the costs of these pensions not just the pension.

Explain to me how the change to DC pensions works, on planet Fliball? (Hint, before you answer, I reckon you don't understand in any practical and financial sense, the implications of what you're proposing...)

Celticfire

fliball123 wrote: »

Ask my hole I phucking pay a lot of taxes for a scandal ridden over paid under worked bunch of whingy phucks.

.

As regarding whinging Phucks you should take a good hard look in the mirror. How many years are you posting the same ****e? Posters should take note that it's a waste of their time to try to engage with you. I look forward to getting my lump sum, I'll have a drink on you you, cheers.

fliball123

barneystinson wrote: »

Explain to me how the change to DC pensions works, on planet Fliball? (Hint, before you answer, I reckon you don't understand in any practical and financial sense, the implications of what you're proposing...)

Barney answer this question do you accept that the tax payer covers the shortfall of public sector pensions? The implications of what I am asking is to level the playing field some in the public sector might actually get paid more come pension time

fliball123

Celticfire wrote: »

As regarding whinging Phucks you should take a good hard look in the mirror. How many years are you posting the same ****e? Posters should take note that it's a waste of their time to try to engage with you. I look forward to getting my lump sum, I'll have a drink on you you, cheers.

Yeah play the man well done and lets do what you lads always do forget the scandals..

fliball123

Celticfire wrote: »

As regarding whinging Phucks you should take a good hard look in the mirror. How many years are you posting the same ****e? Posters should take note that it's a waste of their time to try to engage with you. I look forward to getting my lump sum, I'll have a drink on you you, cheers.

I am looking in the mirror and I don't want to be paying more for a service that is littered with incompetence and scandals is that ok with you ??

Pogue eile

fliball123 wrote: »

Barney answer this question do you accept that the tax payer covers the shortfall of public sector pensions? The implications of what I am asking is to level the playing field some in the public sector might actually get paid more

Do you think that public sector workers keep the private sector a float and in jobs?

Do you even understand basic economics?

fliball123

Pogue eile wrote: »

Do you think that public sector workers keep the private sector a float and in jobs?

Do you even understand basic economics?

Both need each other and this is getting to the point, the public sector needs the private sector's tax to pay them. That tax is being eroded hense it is ridiculous to be paying pay rises in this situation.

I do know we need the public sector but can we have less incompetence and scandals and value for money?

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

Ask my hole I phucking pay a lot of taxes for a scandal ridden over paid under worked, cushioned sector of society. Scandals that go back 30/40 year in some areas. I will highlight 2 areas of the public sector. the garda and the HSE and just off the top of my head

Garda Heavy Gang Scandal
Garda Kerry Babies Scandal
Outcome of the Morris Tribunal
The shooting of John Carthy
Outcome of the Smithwick tribunal
Kieran Boylan drug case
MacLochlainn Commission
misuse of the Pulse system
Initial reports into Sgt Maurice McCabe allegations
“Bugging” of Garda Ombudsman
Garda whistle blower scandal
Garda Breathliser blowing scandal/Phantom alcohol tests, wrongful convictions
Cevical check scandal including paying tony O'Brien its leader a 100k payoff to go
Grace/Foster home scandal
Trolley number scandal
Death of Death of Savita Halappanavar
Leas Cross scandal
X-ray scandals
Death of Susie Long
Mother and baby scandal
Waiting list scandal

I could continue this list if I googled and I could also add in the teaching profession and Politicians but I could be here all day typing

Yeah now should I show more gratitude or should I be asking the question why am I paying so much for a poor service that has shown scandal after scandal and all that is ever done is a tribunal set up , bosses paid to leave and the gravy train continues.

Jaysus, that's some memory - all the way back to the 1950s Mother and Baby - so you're blaming public servants for the political decisions that allowed the church to run health services? I think you might have missed the target there

Can we do a list of all the private sector scandals over that same period, particularly the ones where the State had to step in to bail out private businesses, like PMPA, ICI Insurance, Quinn Insurance, Anglo Irish, Irish Nationwide and more? How often does the State have to step in to cover the basic employment obligations of bust businesses?

Do you really want to compare?

Geuze

Fliball123,

if the PS did move to DC pension, what sort of cont rates might you expect?


I would expect ER = 20%, EE = 10%.

I will check some semi-state pension schemes, some of them are funded.


The IAA pay a 30.5% cont on behalf of the ATC staff, the staff didn't make any cont at the time of this press release:

https://www.iaa.ie/news/2015/11/13/statement-from-the-irish-aviation-authority-1

tayto lover

fliball123 wrote: »

On the basis of experience I have 2 kids going to school and all they got were a text on Aladdin for the work they had to do at the start of the week and then we had to submit the work we got no information if the work was right or wrong..so how long does it take to compose a message in Aladdin?? If this wasn't the experience of the majority of parents then I take it back but this was my experience

Jaysus ???
How could a lad like you who is an expert on everything not correct simple exercises yourself???
Ffs it’s feckin primary school stuff.
Lost all belief in you there. Bluffery.

Pogue eile

fliball123 wrote: »

I do know we need the public sector but can we have less incompetence and scandals and value for money?

That's an entirely different topic to what this thread is about.

And what about the wrong doing and scandals in the private sector or do you think that it is exclusively a private sector issue?

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Jaysus, that's some memory - all the way back to the 1950s Mother and Baby - so you're blaming public servants for the political decisions that allowed the church to run health services? I think you might have missed the target there

Can we do a list of all the private sector scandals over that same period, particularly the ones where the State had to step in to bail out private businesses, like PMPA, ICI Insurance, Quinn Insurance, Anglo Irish, Irish Nationwide and more? How often does the State have to step in to cover the basic employment obligations of bust businesses?

Do you really want to compare?

Once again that was the public sector who decided to step in and make those decisions and bail them out and were decisions I would not support. So in every one of those cases there was a public servant(s) behind the wheel making the decisions, well done you just made the case for public sector even weaker

tayto lover

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Jaysus, that's some memory - all the way back to the 1950s Mother and Baby - so you're blaming public servants for the political decisions that allowed the church to run health services? I think you might have missed the target there

Can we do a list of all the private sector scandals over that same period, particularly the ones where the State had to step in to bail out private businesses, like PMPA, ICI Insurance, Quinn Insurance, Anglo Irish, Irish Nationwide and more? How often does the State have to step in to cover the basic employment obligations of bust businesses?

Do you really want to compare?

Banks, PMPA, Quinn etc ‘Nuff said.

Pogue eile

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Jaysus, that's some memory - all the way back to the 1950s Mother and Baby - so you're blaming public servants for the political decisions that allowed the church to run health services? I think you might have missed the target there

Can we do a list of all the private sector scandals over that same period, particularly the ones where the State had to step in to bail out private businesses, like PMPA, ICI Insurance, Quinn Insurance, Anglo Irish, Irish Nationwide and more? How often does the State have to step in to cover the basic employment obligations of bust businesses?

Do you really want to compare?

lol 'top of me head' my bollo* he has reams of grievances ready to cut and paste - if he puts this amount of effort and work into he's actual job he has nothing to worry about

fliball123

Pogue eile wrote: »

That's an entirely different topic to what this thread is about.

And what about the wrong doing and scandals in the private sector or do you think that it is exclusively a private sector issue?

Really so them wanting to go ahead with pay rises while multiple scandals going on and while the world economy is heading into the toilet and you think they are a different topic. I dont think so there needs to be a full long hard look at the public sector.

Pogue eile

fliball123 wrote: »

Really so them wanting to go ahead with pay rises while multiple scandals going on and while the world economy is heading into the toilet and you think they are a different topic. I dont think so there needs to be a full long hard look at the public sector.

Sorry, who is looking for a pay rise?

fliball123

tayto lover wrote: »

Banks, PMPA, Quinn etc ‘Nuff said.

Yeah your right the politicians who made those decisions played a blinder like you said nuff said all Public servants

fliball123

Pogue eile wrote: »

Sorry, who is looking for a pay rise?

some on here are looking for the 2% to go ahead this year

fliball123

Pogue eile wrote: »

lol 'top of me head' my bollo* he has reams of grievances ready to cut and paste - if he puts this amount of effort and work into he's actual job he has nothing to worry about

What should be taken out of your post is reams of grievances , yeah all scandals its a pity you cant take the point and stop playing the man, and how I work is none of your business just be grateful I am working and paying tax

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

Once again that was the public sector who decided to step in and make those decisions and bail them out and were decisions I would not support. So in every one of those cases there was a public servant(s) behind the wheel making the decisions, well done you just made the case for public sector even weaker

You seem to be confused between political decisions and administrative decisions. Don't blame public servants for the politicians that you vote in.

tayto lover

fliball123 wrote: »

some on here are looking for the 2% to go ahead this year

I’m retired and on the pigs back but if I was still working I’d fight for it through my beloved union. Lovely dosh. You can’t beat a good strong union.

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You seem to be confused between political decisions and administrative decisions. Don't blame public servants for the politicians that you vote in.

Sorry are politicians in the public service YES
Was the financial regulator in the public service YES
did the likes of Quinn and Anglo make the decision to bail themselves out NO

So I do blame the politicians and they are a subset of public servants.

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry are politicians in the public service YES
Was the financial regulator in the public service YES
did the likes of Quinn and Anglo make the decision to bail themselves out NO

So I do blame the politicians and they are a subset of public servants.

Politicians are NOT a subset of public servants. Politicians are elected public representatives, that you and others vote for. They decided the 'soft touch regulation' policy that the Financial Regulator worked under. They decided on the bank bailouts. And you voted for them.

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Politicians are NOT a subset of public servants. Politicians are elected public representatives, that you and others vote for. They decided the 'soft touch regulation' policy that the Financial Regulator worked under. They decided on the bank bailouts. And you voted for them.

They are public servants regardless of being elected or not. You show me one party or politician who proclaimed or canvassed to have a mandate of bailing out banks and Quinn insurance when looking for a vote?

tayto lover

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah your right the politicians who made those decisions played a blinder like you said nuff said all Public servants

So you have no responsibility in it at all?

fliball123

tayto lover wrote: »

So you have no responsibility in it at all?

Like I just said show me one politician or party who when asking for my vote said they would be bailing out banks and insurance companies??

Pogue eile

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Politicians are NOT a subset of public servants. Politicians are elected public representatives, that you and others vote for. They decided the 'soft touch regulation' policy that the Financial Regulator worked under. They decided on the bank bailouts. And you voted for them.

Like most things he has touched on here the lad hasn't a clue what he is talking about.

Most balanced man in Ireland is fliball, a chip on both shoulders!

tayto lover

fliball123 wrote: »

Like I just said show me one politician or party who when asking for my vote said they would be bailing out banks and insurance companies??

Yet you blame the rest of us for the same thing. Jesus wept.