Public service pay cut?

mariaalice

We have done very well with the lockdown not having an effect on the economy and there will be a massive bounce back when we reopen interesting times.

It hasn't panned out the way a lot of commentators though.

am_zarathustra

mariaalice wrote: »

We have done very well with the lockdown not having an effect on the economy and there will be a massive bounce back when we reopen interesting times.

It hasn't panned out the way a lot of commentators though.

It's hard to know for sure but that does feel like the direction it's heading.

Zebra3

mariaalice wrote: »

We have done very well with the lockdown not having an effect on the economy and there will be a massive bounce back when we reopen interesting times.

It hasn't panned out the way a lot of commentators though.

“We”?

Tell that to all those who have lost their jobs or businesses.

wicklowstevo

im sure there is a cunning plan in place to start the cutting with the less visible public service workers and those deemed non essential . the government have renegaded on the public service pay deals with each group individually in various sneaky and sly ways so it might require European courts to sort it out

then the teachers
then the gardai
then the nurses
on a sliding scale of how valuable they have been during the pandemic

just have to wait long enough for public support to fall away from those groups

wicklowstevo

mariaalice wrote: »

We have done very well with the lockdown not having an effect on the economy and there will be a massive bounce back when we reopen interesting times.

It hasn't panned out the way a lot of commentators though.

jasas I hope your right but I really doubt it

tayto lover

wicklowstevo wrote: »

im sure there is a cunning plan in place to start the cutting with the less visible public service workers and those deemed non essential . the government have renegaded on the public service pay deals with each group individually in various sneaky and sly ways so it might require European courts to sort it out

then the teachers
then the gardai
then the nurses
on a sliding scale of how valuable they have been during the pandemic

just have to wait long enough for public support to fall away from those groups

There won’t be cuts in the PS. None.

Eric Cartman

wicklowstevo wrote: »

im sure there is a cunning plan in place to start the cutting with the less visible public service workers and those deemed non essential . the government have renegaded on the public service pay deals with each group individually in various sneaky and sly ways so it might require European courts to sort it out

then the teachers
then the gardai
then the nurses
on a sliding scale of how valuable they have been during the pandemic

just have to wait long enough for public support to fall away from those groups

Anyone working in the HSE who has been at home this entire pandemic should be targeted for cuts, the teachers should get cuts,

actually any public body that remained fully functioning during this should look at who was at home and just how much they're truly needed.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone working in the HSE who has been at home this entire pandemic should be targeted for cuts, the teachers should get cuts,

actually any public body that remained fully functioning during this should look at who was at home and just how much they're truly needed.

You want to target people who were working from home or organisations who allowed people to work from home? A bit twisted, no?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone working in the HSE who has been at home this entire pandemic should be targeted for cuts, the teachers should get cuts,

actually any public body that remained fully functioning during this should look at who was at home and just how much they're truly needed.

It’s funny some people just can’t imagine that someone could actually work from home and be busy and productive. Why Is that so difficult to imagine?

I Am The Law

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone working in the HSE who has been at home this entire pandemic should be targeted for cuts, the teachers should get cuts,

actually any public body that remained fully functioning during this should look at who was at home and just how much they're truly needed.

Bring back benchmarking, that was a huge success.

Treppen

tayto lover wrote: »

There won’t be cuts in the PS. None.

Cuts across the public sector would halt spending into ....guess where???

relax carry on

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone working in the HSE who has been at home this entire pandemic should be targeted for cuts, the teachers should get cuts,

actually any public body that remained fully functioning during this should look at who was at home and just how much they're truly needed.

Pretty much my entire organisation is working from home and functioning very well indeed. Do we all need to now be let go because we managed to work from home as required? You may miss us when we are gone, although having glimpsed the society you wish we had, through your posts over the years, you probably wouldn't miss us or would blame the poor/immigrants for your self inflicted woes once we were gone.

Fann Linn

wicklowstevo wrote: »

im sure there is a cunning plan in place to start the cutting with the less visible public service workers and those deemed non essential . the government have renegaded on the public service pay deals with each group individually in various sneaky and sly ways so it might require European courts to sort it out

then the teachers
then the gardai
then the nurses
on a sliding scale of how valuable they have been during the pandemic

just have to wait long enough for public support to fall away from those groups

Crazy assumption you're making up there.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You want to target people who were working from home or organisations who allowed people to work from home? A bit twisted, no?

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s funny some people just can’t imagine that someone could actually work from home and be busy and productive. Why Is that so difficult to imagine?

relax carry on wrote: »

Pretty much my entire organisation is working from home and functioning very well indeed. Do we all need to now be let go because we managed to work from home as required? You may miss us when we are gone, although having glimpsed the society you wish we had, through your posts over the years, you probably wouldn't miss us or would blame the poor/immigrants for your self inflicted woes once we were gone.

Youre missing the point, its not about the working from home, but cuts are needed in the HSE , but any department / group who wasn't at home during this is clearly very frontline / coalface essential, so the cuts that are needed should only be from those who were working from home. Admin staff etc..

if I said 'cut the HSE staff' id have a tonne of people saying 'but the nurses and doctors saved us all' , my working from home comment was intended to imply that cuts should exclude those people completely as its clear as day they're worth their weight in gold at this point.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Youre missing the point, its not about the working from home, but cuts are needed in the HSE , but any department / group who wasn't at home during this is clearly very frontline / coalface essential, so the cuts that are needed should only be from those who were working from home. Admin staff etc..

if I said 'cut the HSE staff' id have a tonne of people saying 'but the nurses and doctors saved us all' , my working from home comment was intended to imply that cuts should exclude those people completely as its clear as day they're worth their weight in gold at this point.

Interesting theory - so all the IT folks that scrambled from home to produce the Covid app, the tracing systems, the vaccination systems, the booking systems should all be cut - just at a time when the reliance on IT in healthcare has never been greater?

Have you really thought this through?

wench

Good to know we don't need payroll, hr, rosters, bed management, medical records...

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Interesting theory - so all the IT folks that scrambled from home to produce the Covid app, the tracing systems, the vaccination systems, the booking systems should all be cut - just at a time when the reliance on IT in healthcare has never been greater?

Have you really thought this through?

I haven't suggested cutting whole departments, just those are the departments where cuts should happen, but you knew that and are being wilfully obtuse with my posts.

GarIT

It's also worth pointing out that salaries of anyone working in Technology in the civil service is capped at €64k and you only get that with 15 years experience. Well below industry norms.

Cluedo Monopoly

GarIT wrote: »

It's also worth pointing out that salaries of anyone working in Technology in the civil service is capped at €64k and you only get that with 15 years experience. Well below industry norms.

How do you make that out? Surely Grade 8 folks in the civil service are getting more than 64k after a few increments?

GarIT

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

How do you make that out? Surely Grade 8 folks in the civil service are getting more than 64k after a few increments?

Is that the public service rather than civil service? I'm not aware of a grade 8.


The highest a civil servant can go in tech is Administrative Officer Higher, highest step on the scale is €64,818. I didn't look earlier, would have rounded to €65k if I did.


The only promotion an AO can get is to AP and you aren't allowed to work in tech then. You can work in a tech office but you are strictly on people management and project management, you can't write a line of code or anything like that. They won't even give APs the "developer desktops" they give to everyone else in tech, just the standard civil service desktop where you can't install or customise anything, only comes with Microsoft Office, etc.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I haven't suggested cutting whole departments, just those are the departments where cuts should happen, but you knew that and are being wilfully obtuse with my posts.

So which parts of the understaffed HSE IT teams should be cut?

GarIT

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So which parts of the understaffed HSE IT teams should be cut?

I don't think that's what was said, it seems to be misunderstanding on purpose. In any other thread people are usually all in strong agreement of cutting out unnecessary or inefficient parts of the HSE.

tayto lover

Treppen wrote: »

Cuts across the public sector would halt spending into ....guess where???

Irrelevant. Not going to happen.

AndrewJRenko

GarIT wrote: »

I don't think that's what was said, it seems to be misunderstanding on purpose. In any other thread people are usually all in strong agreement of cutting out unnecessary or inefficient parts of the HSE.

He seems to be defining "working from home " as meaning "inefficient and ripe for cutting ".

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I haven't suggested cutting whole departments, just those are the departments where cuts should happen, but you knew that and are being wilfully obtuse with my posts.

Eric a mhic your posts on this topic are the equivalent of a bull****ter in a china shop, you have the sthrong confidence of a fella whose utterly uninformed opinion has never been contradicted in a way that he could comprehend and if a poster may bytimes respond to you in a frustrated fashion that veers into wilfully obtuse, well at least for them it was willful.

You should, genuinely now, never feel the need to comment on any public expenditure matter ever again because we have all read your unchanging opinion on these matters several thousand times and there's divil a bit of fear that any response you receive will change those recorded opinions one iota for no evidence ever has yet.

I should put on the record my admiration for your stamina, however

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

Is that the public service rather than civil service? I'm not aware of a grade 8.


The highest a civil servant can go in tech is Administrative Officer Higher, highest step on the scale is €64,818. I didn't look earlier, would have rounded to €65k if I did.


The only promotion an AO can get is to AP and you aren't allowed to work in tech then. You can work in a tech office but you are strictly on people management and project management, you can't write a line of code or anything like that. They won't even give APs the "developer desktops" they give to everyone else in tech, just the standard civil service desktop where you can't install or customise anything, only comes with Microsoft Office, etc.

Can an AO not go to HEO grade?
I know that they are essentially the same grade and responsibilities with the same salary at the top end of the scale, but an AO starts at lower pay. So moving to HEO is a way to cut a couple of years off reaching their starting salary.

Also if there long enough could they not progress to a PO position based on qualifications and what ever internal competition requirements are met?

You could but the description of the duties is broadly correct

Infrastructure management maybe/arguably have AP ICT roles that stay somewhat techy but developers stop at HEO higher pretty much

GarIT

DubInMeath wrote: »

Can an AO not go to HEO grade?
I know that they are essentially the same grade and responsibilities with the same salary at the top end of the scale, but an AO starts at lower pay. So moving to HEO is a way to cut a couple of years off reaching their starting salary.

Also if there long enough could they not progress to a PO position based on qualifications and what ever internal competition requirements are met?

Yeah I think you could save 3 years by starting at HEO but you have to have at least two years of experience to get HEO. There are much fewer available HEO higher scales, so you might get stuck at the non Higher cap. HEO isn't a promotion, it's a sideways move, got confirmation of that just a week ago when a promotion to HEO became available.

In theory you could get a double promotion to PO, but you have to be skilled in people management, project management, budgeting, purchasing/negotiating. A lot of tech staff don't have staff as most people in tech aren't willing to work for EO wages so it is hard to build up people management experience and they are unlikely to have experience with managing budgets and purchasing. So it's possible in theory but I've never heard of it happening. And still, you'd be out of tech.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You could but the description of the duties is broadly correct

Infrastructure management maybe/arguably have AP ICT roles that stay somewhat techy but developers stop at HEO higher pretty much

I understand that hands on tech might stop at AP level as your from what I understand into the people management and project management level at AP and higher.
Perhaps suited to people who aren't technically minded, from my experience more technically minded /skilled people don't tend to fit in at these roles due to having to deal with people who haven't a clue what they are talking about in technical terms and just want to be a manager because they seem to think being one somehow makes them important.

GarIT

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

He seems to be defining "working from home " as meaning "inefficient and ripe for cutting ".

I understood it to mean, not considering cutting those who aren't working from home becasue they are essential. To only cut from those working from home, not that everyone working from home could be cut.