Public service pay cut?

cee_jay

Strumms wrote: »

How is it hard though ? Measure their ability to do their job.

1. Timekeeping

2. Appearance

3. Presentation skills

4. Use of presentation aids

5. Checking for comprehension

6. Class management / discipline

They would be ‘some’.

Appearance?? Performance measures should never be subjective. Also putting targets against "discipline"? That wouldn't end well.

There are already measures against which schools are measured by DoE Inspectors.

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

PMDS never went away. It has been in place for many years now. Increments are dependent on performance and non-performers are fired.

You gotta love how people think they're coming up with great ideas, when these ideas have been in place for decades.

and yet 99.99% of the Public sector workforce get them brilliant what is the the performance level you have to be able to breathe?

fliball123

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

There was forced job losses in the last crash in the public sector.

No people were given the choice of redundancy they did not have to take it. If they didnt take it they just stayed working. There was no thought process as to who to keep a lot of skilled employees left and just to throw another carrot there were golden handshakes for those taking the redundancy as well as some being rehired back on contractors rates. It was insane

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

And psycut, pension levy, increased hours, reduced sick leave, reduced annual leave and less staff doing more work. The public service had it much tougher than anyone except those who lost their jobs in the private sector. Many in the private sector experienced no cuts at all but still complained about the public sector.

I will not be as willing to accept cuts this time round.

You wont have a choice as we are entering into another sh1tstorm 6 billion gone from corpo taxes thats almost half in the very near future, there is already talk of a corona tax on the wealthy and on businesses who done well through conona, I hope the govenment start with themselves and the PS with this. How many people with high wealth will flee. How many companies will not reopen after corona goes and you wont accept your paycut what will you do about it the money is not there currently and its only getting worse. Try saying no pay cut and 240Billion of debt and 17Billion deficit in a sentence and get back to me.

fliball123

Bobtheman wrote: »

They can shove any pay increase or decrease up their holes or all your holes.
High insurance, heath and mortgage rates in this country are what makes it impossible to to afford to live here.
Housing too.
And you idiots are arguing over public sector pay?.
Yeah that will solve everything!

Its about a 20Billion a year euro a year problem with no accountability so its not exactly small potatoes

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

and yet 99.99% of the workforce get them brilliant what is the the performance level you have to be able to breathe?

When you have quality recruitment processes and quality line management training, it's no surprise that the vast majority of employees reach their objectives. This is something to sing to the heavens about, not something to be ashamed about.

If you find yourself with lots of employees who can't do the job, you need to take a hard look at your recruitment and management systems.

Vizzy

Vizzy wrote: »

Used in Local Authorities too.

An awful waste of time imo.

What sanction or reward is there for someone ( like me) who has reached the top of their grade many years and has no interest in progressing further ?
It also creates all sorts of false expectations of what someone can achieve.

But withholding increments are just one carrot/stick.

If you're not doing your job, you can be put on a PIP, and managed out.

I know several managers have withhold increments due to performance issues. If done right, unions won't touch it.

I also know managers that have withheld increments for bull5h1t reasons, and have had to backtrack.

It's not perfect, bit better than a few years ago, where dealing with a performance issue would turn into a bullying case before you knew it.

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When you have quality recruitment processes and quality line management training, it's no surprise that the vast majority of employees reach their objectives. This is something to sing to the heavens about, not something to be ashamed about.

If you find yourself with lots of employees who can't do the job, you need to take a hard look at your recruitment and management systems.

Will you go and get me some of what your smoking really. So the lads who looked after all the smear tests that played a blinder they got their increment. The gardai blowing into the breathalyzers they got their increments. Do I need to go through every scandal throughout the last decade within the PS it will go on and on and on. So no one sacked just lets give them more money that will solve the problem. Your post is so ridiculous I nearly fell over laughing

Quin_Dub

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When you have quality recruitment processes and quality line management training, it's no surprise that the vast majority of employees reach their objectives. This is something to sing to the heavens about, not something to be ashamed about.

If you find yourself with lots of employees who can't do the job, you need to take a hard look at your recruitment and management systems.

More likely that the objectives are incredibly soft and don't stretch the employees.

Performance objectives/rewards should not be able to be achieved by simply turning up every day - That's what your base salary pays for.

The purpose of setting performance targets is about driving improvements and efficiencies over time.

The performance that got you top marks last year should not be able to get you top marks this year , you should be showing improvements each and every year.

Goals that never change and that don't push for improvements drive mediocrity.

If all you've got to do to qualify for the pay-rise/bonus is to simply turn up every day, then what's the incentive to actually make an effort to be better than the rest?

Everybody just sags back into the middle of the pack and no one gets rewarded for excelling.

raze_them_all_

There are members of the public service who are unvaccinated that have to deal with positive cases of corona, do you cut their pay??

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When you have quality recruitment processes and quality line management training, it's no surprise that the vast majority of employees reach their objectives. This is something to sing to the heavens about, not something to be ashamed about.

If you find yourself with lots of employees who can't do the job, you need to take a hard look at your recruitment and management systems.

Like the way the HSE management added all those extra ICU beds during COVID while the rest of the country shut down to facilitate it? Oh wait, they didn't add any - it was easier to bankrupt the country.

fliball123

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

There are members of the public service who are unvaccinated that have to deal with positive cases of corona, do you cut their pay??

The problem is that there are some great workers in the PS but while the current system of everyone no matter how good bad or ugly get their increments how can they be targetted for the good work they do?

granturismo

fliball123 wrote: »

The problem is that there are some great workers in the PS but while the current system of everyone no matter how good bad or ugly get their increments how can they be targetted for the good work they do?

I'm open to correction - civil service need to pass a review to get their increments, public service dont.

Some people seem to think that increments are never ending throughout a career - some posts have 5 increments or less, thats one pay increase every 5 years and then no more, some posts have 10 - 15 increments.

There are opportunities for recognition via promotion but these can be limited. It does happen but is rare for underachievers to be demoted or otherwise.

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

Like the way the HSE management added all those extra ICU beds during COVID while the rest of the country shut down to facilitate it? Oh wait, they didn't add any - it was easier to bankrupt the country.

ICU capacity has been increased.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

PMDS never went away. It has been in place for many years now. Increments are dependent on performance and non-performers are fired.

You gotta love how people think they're coming up with great ideas, when these ideas have been in place for decades.

Worked as a temp in the public service. PMDS is there alright, but it's a mere box-ticking exercise. There is jobs in the civil service that are as safe as earthquake-proof houses regardless of performance. Cant vouch for every sector of it, but this is certainly evident in the sector I worked in. Forsa are a complete jokeshop. Ran by PBP zealots id say.

That said, its the best job I've ever had. Dont get me wrong, I got stuck in and done my best like all jobs I've been in, but I didn't have to contend with the stress of some of the sociopathic clowns I've had to deal with in the past in the private sector.

fliball123

granturismo wrote: »

I'm open to correction - civil service need to pass a review to get their increments, public service dont.

Some people seem to think that increments are never ending throughout a career - some posts have 5 increments or less, thats one pay increase every 5 years and then no more, some posts have 10 - 15 increments.

There are opportunities for recognition via promotion but these can be limited. It does happen but is rare for underachievers to be demoted or otherwise.

look I have no doubt that there is talent in the PS deserving of payrises/increments the problem are those who clock watch , make a balls of it or who just phone it in they get them as well.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

You wont have a choice as we are entering into another sh1tstorm 6 billion gone from corpo taxes thats almost half in the very near future, there is already talk of a corona tax on the wealthy and on businesses who done well through conona, I hope the govenment start with themselves and the PS with this. How many people with high wealth will flee. How many companies will not reopen after corona goes and you wont accept your paycut what will you do about it the money is not there currently and its only getting worse. Try saying no pay cut and 240Billion of debt and 17Billion deficit in a sentence and get back to me.

The PS are actually due to get a pay rise shortly and again next year. The government obviously appreciates the the work they do.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

The PS are actually due to get a pay rise shortly and again next year. The government obviously appreciates the the work they do.

Yeah they appreciate it as if they dont play ball the unions have a gun to their head if there was no strike threat then there would be no payrises and they are going to have to take the pain with in the next 5 years there is no way we are going to bounce back with giving pay rises when we have so much debt, deficit and unemployment and hemorrhaging taxes both income and corpo. Like I say its like a parrellel universe where they think the economy is flying along

BonnieSituation

Do you put this must effort into your private sector job?

This is tenacity that Roy Keane would be proud of.

fliball123

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do you put this must effort into your private sector job?

This is tenacity that Roy Keane would be proud of.

Only presenting the facts

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Only presenting the facts

You should be working harder we need those taxes.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

You should be working harder we need those taxes.

Dont you worry the cuts are coming they are unavoidable ..the IMF have already been on to the govenment saying they need something and suggested a temporary solidarity tax.... USC anyone. There is no way they will get that one through after that temporary tax is still here 10 years later. I will point you to this post when the cuts come in

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

Will you go and get me some of what your smoking really. So the lads who looked after all the smear tests that played a blinder they got their increment. The gardai blowing into the breathalyzers they got their increments. Do I need to go through every scandal throughout the last decade within the PS it will go on and on and on. So no one sacked just lets give them more money that will solve the problem. Your post is so ridiculous I nearly fell over laughing

When did you get your hands on the HR files of the individuals involved in those issues?

Oh you didn't - and you've no idea what you're talking about on these or any other specific cases.

Bobtheman

fliball123 wrote: »

Its about a 20Billion a year euro a year problem with no accountability so its not exactly small potatoes

I agree
It would be better used in health or education spending.
A 3% pay increase won't really improve your standard of living when rents, health care exp cost you an arm and a leg

machiavellianme

cee_jay wrote: »

Appearance?? Performance measures should never be subjective. Also putting targets against "discipline"? That wouldn't end well.

There are already measures against which schools are measured by DoE Inspectors.

In some cases, it could simply imply that they appeared for work. Absenteeism is rife.

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When did you get your hands on the HR files of the individuals involved in those issues?

Oh you didn't - and you've no idea what you're talking about on these or any other specific cases.

Its a known fact that very few if any in the PS are stopped their their increments. So you ask yourself the people looking after the smear tests no one knows who they are as there is absolutely zereo accountability and should of been sacked , same goes for the garda blowing into their own breathalyzers to falsify records and for commuting fraud by manipulating the pulse system. Not one sacking. But yeah nothing to see her lets increment and give pay rises while 240 billion in debt, deficit of 17 Billion and taxes plundering. But sure it will be grand the lads in the PS will be able to spend their pay rises and keep the boat afloat. its head in the sand stuff.

fliball123

Bobtheman wrote: »

I agree
It would be better used in health or education spending.
A 3% pay increase won't really improve your standard of living when rents, health care exp cost you an arm and a leg

We are all running the same race and jumping the same hurdles with regards to the cost of living.

Pogue eile

fliball123 wrote: »

Only presenting the facts

A 'fact' is defined as 'a thing that is known or proved to be true' let that be your starting point and see where you go from there!

'Corpo' is not a word by the way, please stop using it, especially when you have no idea what you are talking about and don't even seem to grasp the very basics of economics.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Dont you worry the cuts are coming they are unavoidable ..in

The only thing we know is coming is pay rises per the current agreement.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

The only thing we know is coming is pay rises per the current agreement.

OK so just stop and think and put 2 and 2 together.

We are currently as of the end of 2020
240billion in debt
17Billion in deficit
Currently the cost of borrowing is low its at the lowest it has ever been and can only go up.
We will be losing at least 6 billion a year on corpo taxes and god knows what way unemployment will be after covid. So there will be further loses in income tax and welfare payments.
Brexit has still not affected us due to Covid and will give us a further kicking.
We have broken through the laffer curve for income tax take.
Any attempt of a solidarity tax will see more losses of both income and corpo tax as with the new WFH dynamic people dont have to be here to work and MNCs once we lose our tax advantage some will go and some will stop the growth that has been a boon to the Irish exchequer.

Now do you think the ECB will write a cheque for at least 23/24Billion (I reckon we could be hitting 30billion) each year for the foreseeable future to fund our spending???????? All this money is added to the debt that has to be paid and will be paid for at a higher interest rate in the future.

The math just does not add up unfortunately.

Look I know I might come across as a bull in a China shop but we just cant afford it and it will probably take the troika coming back into town to tell us to get our act together before cuts happen again so enjoy your payrise but there will be cuts in the future. I take no joy in this as a cut to PS means the country is on its knees as its always last on the list for cuts.