Public service pay cut?

fliball123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You keep saying this. It's not true. You need to compare comparable roles. The mix of roles, qualifications and skills is very different between the private and public sectors.

https://isme.ie/isme-gives-a-qualified-welcome-to-the-government-decision-to-increase-public-sector-pay/

fliball123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

That never happened, either. You're a great fella for peddling myths.

Your unions who you do your collective bargaining did on your behalf during the last recession keep what we have and anyone coming in can take the shaft


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/two-tier-public-pay-system-1.3642460?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fletters%2Ftwo-tier-public-pay-system-1.3642460

Hotblack Desiato

Not interested in ISME propaganda thanks

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody on this thread has the power to do anything about PS pay. And that includes our resident ‘economist’.

I wont have to, the writting is on the wall not one of you have come up with a way out of the situation we are currently experiencing - the massive job losses that have already happened and ones that will happen once Covid is gone or the massive debt and massive deficit that we currently have to borrow for, its just keep borrowing and cut everywhere else and sure who will notice us getting a pay rise.. When the corporation tax gets shredded you will have to take some pain. Dont feel bad we all will

Angler1

Where's Patslatt when you need him?
Personally I'm incapable of happiness.

fliball123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Not interested in ISME propaganda thanks

Not interested in fact that blow the myth that our PS is underpaid

Hotblack Desiato

fliball123 wrote: »

Your unions who you do your collective bargaining did on your behalf during the last recession keep what we have and anyone coming in can take the shaft

As has been repeatedly pointed out, that was not negotiated with the unions or anyone else at any stage, the government acted unilaterally.

fliball123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

As has been repeatedly pointed out, that was not negotiated with the unions or anyone else at any stage, the government acted unilaterally.

It came out of an agreement between unions and government they were at the table why didn't they go on strike to stop it?

Hotblack Desiato

fliball123 wrote: »

Not interested in fact that blow the myth that our PS is underpaid

Not when we have to pay:

Irish private sector housing costs
Irish private sector insurance costs
Irish private sector grocery costs
Irish private sector bank charges
Etc etc etc
Look at where the real rip-off is.

Hotblack Desiato

fliball123 wrote: »

It came out of an agreement between unions and government they were at the table why didn't they go on strike to stop it?

No it did not.

fliball123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Not when we have to pay:

Irish private sector housing costs
Irish private sector insurance costs
Irish private sector grocery costs
Irish private sector bank charges
Etc etc etc
Look at where the real rip-off is.

You can add public sector services to the top of that bloody list

Housing costs are high yet those on lower incomes can avail of hap and other allowances to help with rent there are other allowance for FTBs that brings the price of housing down for them as well. If you want to live in Dublin or any other affluent or highly desirable areas you have to pay a premium for the privilege

Insurance costs are going to be slashed in the next year due to the cost of payouts coming down. The insurance companies have been warned to pass this on.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0412/1209371-motor-insurance-costs/

Banks are pulling out of here left right and center and you have a choice of course not to use a bank at all if you dont want to. Your can use cash , mobile wallets, revolute cards, etc these are now actively competing in this space so if you dont want to pay bank charges you dont have to and you can always go old school and stuff the cash under your mattress

Groceries with the entrance of Aldi and Lidl the price of groceries has come down too. If you want your lovely Marks and Spencers gormet dinner you have to pay a premium for this.

nolivesmatter

What's the strongest argument that PS shouldn't be open to pay cuts? (beyond just the fact that it's not the done thing)

Dav010

Pogue eile wrote: »

Imagine if Rory McIlroy was a public service employee Dave? I'd say you would shi*t yourself :D

He would be another example of someone being paid well, irrespective of performance. 🀑

fliball123

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

No it did not.

Sorry but your wrong this happened during the croke park agreement

https://www.oireachtas.ie/ga/debates/debate/seanad/2012-02-09/7/#spk_170

I do believe all unions where at the table I didnt see them striking over it

I suppose this is just Oireachtas propaganda, you can bring a horse to water and all that .....hopefully you read it this time. instead of jumping up and down and disagreeing without any proof

fliball123

nolivesmatter wrote: »

What's the strongest argument that PS shouldn't be open to pay cuts? (beyond just the fact that it's not the done thing)

Judging by the commentary on here its because they had cuts almost a decade ago after the worst recession the population has ever seen (most of which have already been reversed) fast forward 2021 and we are in a worse financial position yet they think we can afford wage increases.

They spin it their pay was cut and now its just a reversal of this pay cut yet how about we go back a further 10 years and say the pay cuts were a reversal for the robbery that was the bench marking exercise twice. I guess its all how its framed.

The PS and Unsions are masters at word manipulation as in these increments are not pay rises even though it ups a person wage and being asked to make a contribution to a defined benefit - the pension levy is a pay cut.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

I wont have to, the writting is on the wall not one of you have come up with a way out of the situation we are currently experiencing - the massive job losses that have already happened and ones that will happen once Covid is gone or the massive debt and massive deficit that we currently have to borrow for, its just keep borrowing and cut everywhere else and sure who will notice us getting a pay rise.. When the corporation tax gets shredded you will have to take some pain. Dont feel bad we all will

I thought at this stage you would come out and say you are not an actual economist..

I’m ok with some tax rises or charges if they have to go back down the austerity route. I think the government won’t want to go down that route again.

The PS won’t accept being scapegoated again this time though.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought at this stage you would come out and say you are not an actual economist..

I’m ok with some tax rises or charges if they have to go back down the austerity route. I think the government won’t want to go down that route again.

The PS won’t accept being scapegoated again this time though.

I never said I was one or wasn't one as its not important to the debate. Well your on your own there in paying more tax. The supposed temporary tax USC con job wont be let through again. Would love to see any political party commit political suicide and ask for more income tax. Last time I checked the number of income tax payers > number of public sector workers and one is a subset of the other.

Also if we reach the unemployment figure and job losses seen in 08 we will have to tax all employees at 70/80% to cover the deficit.

Wanderer78

fliball123 wrote:

Also if we reach the unemployment figure and job losses seen in 08 we will have to tax all employees at 70/80% to cover the deficit.

We need to get over this deficit nonsense, it's just the public entity of the money supply, by not running one, we become overly reliant on the private sector money supply, credit, which lead us into 08!

gameoverdude

To be honest, with the noble service PS workers are doing during the pandemic I think they should get at least a 20% pay increase (caveat: I'm starting my first PS job on Monday)

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah so everyone but you should take the pain you just get your pay rises on top of increments on top of pensions. Would love to live in your reality. Its the likes of you who pulled the ladder up for new entrants into the PS back in the day to preserve your own pay and conditions, you must be one of the "once I am alright jack" brigade.

Already since the start of the year Ulster bank are going so are KBC, AIB and BOI shutting down numerous branches. Carphone wearhouse just announced they will be closing all of their stores.

3000 business since last march (2020) gone to the wall

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-3-000-businesses-gone-bust-since-march-d%C3%A1il-told-1.4407811?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fmore-than-3-000-businesses-gone-bust-since-march-d%25C3%25A1il-told-1.4407811

If you think we can just cut all spend bar the ps pay and pensions when the sh1t hits the fan your deluded and judging by what I have just outlined above the sh1t has just left the anal cavity.

I've been taking the pain for the last ten years my friend, while everyone else has been partying. So let's start talking about fixing that pain with restoring my salary to the contracted level before we start talking about anything further.

Increments aren't some kind of optional nicety. They are contractual obligations, subject to individual performance.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

AndrewJRenko

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry but your wrong this happened during the croke park agreement

https://www.oireachtas.ie/ga/debates/debate/seanad/2012-02-09/7/#spk_170

I do believe all unions where at the table I didnt see them striking over it

I suppose this is just Oireachtas propaganda, you can bring a horse to water and all that .....hopefully you read it this time. instead of jumping up and down and disagreeing without any proof

They did strike actually - I was on the picket line. You might want to ease back on talking about stuff that you know little about.

Strumms

Not a case of them being scapegoated .

Roughly there are about 302,000 people employed in public services in Ireland.

If every public service employee who earns in excess of 45,000 was taking a 2% pay cut that not a huge hit. But could be a huge effort in righting the finances.

When things are up and running again increases to reinstate their pay is a priority.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

I never said I was one or wasn't one as its not important to the debate. Well your on your own there in paying more tax. The supposed temporary tax USC con job wont be let through again. Would love to see any political party commit political suicide and ask for more income tax. Last time I checked the number of income tax payers > number of public sector workers and one is a subset of the other.

Also if we reach the unemployment figure and job losses seen in 08 we will have to tax all employees at 70/80% to cover the deficit.

I never mentioned income tax.

AndrewJRenko

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Not interested in ISME propaganda thanks

Good point, ISME lost any little thread of credibility that they had when they got into bed with Gript.

Once again, yer man needs to be schooled on the dangers of international comparisons, when different governments have very different structures, different levels of in-sourcing and out-sourcing.

Apples and oranges.

AndrewJRenko

Strumms wrote: »

When things are up and running again increases to reinstate their pay is a priority.

You don't think they're going to fall for that one again, do you?

My pay still hasn't been reinstated from last time around.

fliball123

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We need to get over this deficit nonsense, it's just the public entity of the money supply, by not running one, we become overly reliant on the private sector money supply, credit, which lead us into 08!

Eh no you cant just get over it not on the face of 240Billion of debt and with interest rates so low now the borrowing seems cheap but once they rise and the debt rolls over we will be paying a lot of money out for interest alone.

Sorry 105Billion of our current debt is down to public sector spending
https://isme.ie/isme-gives-a-qualified-welcome-to-the-government-decision-to-increase-public-sector-pay/

No one put a gun to anyone's head to use credit how about a bit of personal responsibility?

I find it hard to take that you in one hand say we need to get over the deficit so the borrowing (so 17billion a year to keep the lights on 18 billion after payrises this year, 20 billion after payrises in 2022) and then on the other hand say we became overly reliant on private sector money supply and credit? can you not see the contradiction in this?

As for the 08 crash we more than doubled our public sector pay and pensions and our welfare bill in the 6/7 years before the crash and it was built on the stamp duty lottery that the gombiens thought was going to be a perpetual income stream and when that went away we had a yearly bill we could not afford and currently we are in a worse position than 08. Dont get me wrong the banks phucking us over cost us but even if all the banks behaved and we didnt even have an Anglo we currently would be 200billion in debt.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

I never mentioned income tax.

Well go on tell us how we get out of the current mess then?

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Good point, ISME lost any little thread of credibility that they had when they got into bed with Gript.

Once again, yer man needs to be schooled on the dangers of international comparisons, when different governments have very different structures, different levels of in-sourcing and out-sourcing.

Apples and oranges.

so comparing the pay gap is Apples and Oranges...

33% in favor of the public sector in Ireland
.3% in favor of the private sector in the UK

Really?? School me how do we get out of the mess we are in and allow pay rises for the PS ..school me please?

Fliball you will give yourself an ulcer with all this worrying. You have a good job in IT why not relax and enjoy it. You were the same in 2010 getting worked into a lather about the public finances. What’s it all about??

fliball123

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've been taking the pain for the last ten years my friend, while everyone else has been partying. So let's start talking about fixing that pain with restoring my salary to the contracted level before we start talking about anything further.

Increments aren't some kind of optional nicety. They are contractual obligations, subject to individual performance.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Hows about the pay cut you got was for the robbery of the tax payer for the benchmarking process and you didnt get a cut at all