Phoenix park

LeinsterDub

trellheim wrote: »

Unfortunately this evening lots of people using Chesterfield as a through road for cars. No parking on the Avenue but papal cross car park open.

Apparently this is better than before for I don't know reasons? https://twitter.com/Paulcorcoran10/status/1262851513141075975

cgcsb

So I cycled around the Park yesterday and then drove there for a walk around in the afternoon, mostly to see what it's like.

Cycling)
A lot more hassle from cars, noisier, not as pleasant as it was.
The Chesterfield avenue cycle lane (where there used to be parking) is good but when it comes to the roundabouts very dangerous, it's a complete free for all.
No thought put into junction layout.
As before the cycle lane between the main gate and the first roundabout is completely unusable unless you have an ass of steel or an air suspension on your bike or something. At some point some bonehead in the OPW said 'we'll resurface the road and parking areas EXCEPT for the cycle lane which will be allowed become like the surface of the moon.

Driving)
Very awkward experience on the other roads within the park, felt that I was intruding on the space of people walking and cycling, not much opportunity to overtake cyclists cycling side by side.
The road space has, quite rightfully, been dominated by bikes and walkers. It felt like there was no room for the car.
I did see a driver basically drive over the cones and park in the cycle lane at one point, which made me depressed at humanity's future prospects.
In the interest of balance I did also see some hardcore cyclists (helmet that is pointy at the back and full lycra) swerve out of the cycle lane between the cones onto the carriageway and back again quite suddenly without looking for the purpose of overtaking slower cyclists despite there being room to do so on the 2m wide cycle lane.

the gardaí were driving up and down the avenue at 30km/h in a van slowing down the cars behind him. I wonder is this a request of the OPW? how long will that continue?

beauf

cgcsb wrote: »

....
As before the cycle lane between the main gate and the first roundabout is completely unusable unless you have an ass of steel or an air suspension on your bike or something. At some point some bonehead in the OPW said 'we'll resurface the road and parking areas EXCEPT for the cycle lane which will be allowed become like the surface of the moon.....

Been like that for years. You you have to take the road.
Interesting that no one else has mentioned it.

I always thought showed the level of disinterest in the cycling infrastructure in the park.

cgcsb

Some drivers get irate at cyclists on the carriageway there, I guess that they don't know it's the only option for cyclists who want to keep their internal organs where they are.

Lord Glentoran

cgcsb wrote: »

Some drivers get irate at cyclists on the carriageway there, I guess that they don't know it's the only option for cyclists who want to keep their internal organs where they are.

Sure cyclists can take a command position, and wear earphones to ignore horns or dogs abuse.

LeinsterDub

cgcsb wrote: »

Some drivers get irate at cyclists on the carriageway there, I guess that they don't know it's the only option for cyclists who want to keep their internal organs where they are.

Don't you know they've an important traffic jam or red light to get too ahead of the cyclist

cgcsb

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Don't you know they've an important traffic jam or red light to get too ahead of the cyclist

I understand why they'd be irate if they thought there was a safer alternative 'the cycle lane' in place. I think drivers should be required to pass a competency test on a bike, even completed on a VR machine, before getting a drivers license. It's clear there's a lot of drivers who don't seem to understand how going over drains, broken glass, gaping canyons in the road surface etc. feels on a bike. The government/councils refuse to provide sufficient separate cycle lanes, even in urban centres, so this is the least that can be done.

Zebra3

cgcsb wrote: »

I understand why they'd be irate if they thought there was a safer alternative 'the cycle lane' in place. I think drivers should be required to pass a competency test on a bike, even completed on a VR machine, before getting a drivers license. It's clear there's a lot of drivers who don't seem to understand how going over drains, broken glass, gaping canyons in the road surface etc. feels on a bike. The government/councils refuse to provide sufficient separate cycle lanes, even in urban centres, so this is the least that can be done.

The driving test should include a cycling test.

Phil.x

donvito99 wrote: »

Do you want a medal?

There again today lovely weather, An garda just waved through, i asked for a medal and he said he's saving them for a special type of bellend.

Carawaystick

CatInABox wrote: »

Adding a station would allow you to close one of the car parks, as now more people from all over the country could get a train directly there. As some people have said/implied previously in this thread, there are people out there who won't go to the park unless they can park directly inside the park.

At the minute the vast majority of train lines coming to Dublin terminate in Heuston, Its 550m to the park from Heuston.
Trains that use the tunnel Don't serve Heuston, so its absolutely no use to anyone there.
There are several bus routes running along the perimeter of the park.
One major improvement for access would be to provide safe pedestrian and cycling access from Ashtown station/Canal lock to the Ashtown gate.


Also inside the Park, if the old cycle lanes along Chesterfield avenue are to be footpaths, the old footpaths should be made into safe to use cycle facilities, and the junctions across side roads made safe. and pedestrian crossings across Chesterfield Ave

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/mostlydrinking/status/1271810508576956418

beauf

Because the side gates are closed its created a massive bottleneck even with the reduced traffic we have currently.

It's pretty much a place to avoid now unless you can walk or cycle to it.

cgcsb

ATC Traffic Counters gone in around 3 locations in the park that I noticed. No doubt some report is being drafted by the OPW regarding the future of cars in the park.

magicbastarder

Phoenix Park gates to stay shut to keep 'safe, quiet' spaces for pedestrians and cyclists
Motorists set to face new restrictions in the coming months to ‘curb traffic volumes’
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/phoenix-park-gates-to-stay-shut-to-keep-safe-quiet-spaces-for-pedestrians-and-cyclists-1.4289345?mode=amp

AngryLips

beauf wrote: »

Because the side gates are closed its created a massive bottleneck even with the reduced traffic we have currently.

It's pretty much a place to avoid now unless you can walk or cycle to it.

...or you could catch a luas or any number of buses that serve the park.

beauf

... And with a bit of luck the "new restrictions" will encourage more people on to public transport, and they'll block through traffic entirely. Close the main gates to all except wheelchair passes..

markpb

beauf wrote: »

... And with a bit of luck the "new restrictions" will encourage more people on to public transport, and they'll block through traffic entirely. Close the main gates to all except wheelchair passes..

Wheelchair passes, US Embassy staff and visitors, Presential staff and visitors, Zoo staff, OPW staff, etc. And that's before you get to the thorny issue of visitors to the zoo.

Closing the gates entirely isn't a viable solution. Closing through traffic while retaining access to those facilities is far more workable.

beauf

I don't see why staff need parking. A lot of workplaces don't. The zoo is beside a bus stop for example, opw not a long walk from one either.

If it's good enough for one it's good enough for all.

Carawaystick

The Zoo workers bring animals to vets, and home to provide care for them at times. And the Dublin bus byelaws prohibit this.
The animals need feeding every day of the year. Dublin bus doesn't run every day of the year.

There's also the cops, and staff working for the cops; and the OS staff.

AngryLips

Carawaystick wrote: »

The Zoo workers bring animals to vets, and home to provide care for them at times. And the Dublin bus byelaws prohibit this.
The animals need feeding every day of the year. Dublin bus doesn't run every day of the year.

There's also the cops, and staff working for the cops; and the OS staff.

You don't need through access to the park to facilitate access to destinations inside the park

magicbastarder

Carawaystick wrote: »

The Zoo workers bring animals to vets, and home to provide care for them at times. And the Dublin bus byelaws prohibit this.

i suspect the byelaws could easily be written to include provisions for people on dedicated business like this, to be fair!
the cases you mention are not simple 'staff commuting *to* work' cases, but people actually *working*.

LXFlyer

AngryLips wrote: »

You don't need through access to the park to facilitate access to destinations inside the park

But that's not what the previous poster was replying to - they were replying to post #139 which was suggesting banning all park staff from driving to their place of work in the Phoenix Park and forcing them to use public transport.

That is just ever so slightly draconian I think - the volume of cars involved would be miniscule in the greater scheme of things.

Sierra Oscar

OPW confirming today that all gates will reopen from tomorrow with the exception of the Knockmarron gate which will open following maintenance works.

OPW confirms almost all Phoenix Park gates to reopen tomorrow

Larbre34

Excellent that OPW realised they could not have these gates closed indefinitely without a full public consultation and proposal to extinguish the rights of way.

Hopefully we can have a thorough and transparent process now for long term changes to the Park without a biased or undue influence of certain noisy lobbies.

ncounties

Larbre34 wrote: »

Excellent that OPW realised they could not have these gates closed indefinitely without a full public consultation and proposal to extinguish the rights of way.

Hopefully we can have a thorough and transparent process now for long term changes to the Park without a biased or undue influence of certain noisy lobbies.

Was right of way stopped?

Larbre34

ncounties wrote: »

Was right of way stopped?

Yes, the closure of the 6 perimeter gates did that. I and others reminded OPW and their parent department of that, they did the right thing.

magicbastarder

right of way applies to car usage?
you learn something new every day.

edit: seems that rights of way do not exist in ireland? we have easements if you need to cross land to access your property.

http://www.cahirsolicitors.com/rights-of-way-over-farms-and-adjoining-lands

magicbastarder

strong whiff of jack chambers off this.

magicbastarder

if they are allowing people to walk through the park, i don't think the rights of way argument - if right of way even exists in this context - holds water.

Larbre34

magicbastarder wrote: »

right of way applies to car usage?
you learn something new every day.

edit: seems that rights of way do not exist in ireland? we have easements if you need to cross land to access your property.

http://www.cahirsolicitors.com/rights-of-way-over-farms-and-adjoining-lands

I must've imagined the whole Lissadell v Sligo CoCo case.

Look up the Roads Act 1993, Section 73 while you're at it.