The new generation,are rebelling the last generation..

Danzy

mdudy wrote: »

I do not see an issue with a drag queen reading a story to children in a library.

Personally I don't either.

I draw the line at that kid that was doing drag acts in clubs etc.

That's not transgender, not lgbt, that a paedophilia show.

Toned down content, age appropriate etc. That must be non negotiable.

Odhinn

Danzy wrote: »

Personally I don't either.

I draw the line at that kid that was doing drag acts in clubs etc.

That's not transgender, not lgbt, that a paedophilia show.

Toned down content, age appropriate etc. That must be non negotiable.

It's the same problem as the "pageant" thing, where they put adult makeup and clothes on very young female children. The Americans seem to have a blindspot to that kind of thing.

mdudy

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Plenty of others do; and even more are uncomfortable at any criticism being misrepresented as hate-speech, and the critics misrepresented as bigots.

Anyway, you were saying this sort of thing only happens in the US, I gave you a couple of examples to show you that it's happening here.

What is it if not bigotry? There is no difference in a pantomime dame and a drag queen; it would have been age appropriate, and anyway parents can choose not to send their kids to it.

No, I said that the examples chosen tend to be American examples. And I fail to see how this backs up your point: the people who disagreed with this got it shut down. This event did not happen regardless.

Danzy wrote: »

Toned down content, age appropriate etc. That must be non negotiable.

Obviously.

RandomName2

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Don't be such a snowflake, are you triggered?

^ Clearly a beta whining about his preferred stereotypes being barred to him. I detect a fragile white male who wants to hit out with what he thinks are mean words but this is a safe space from your sort of hatred. Your alt-right words just enable little Eichmans.

Am I getting it right? :rolleyes:

I think you forgot to mention Daily Fail as well in your mini-diatribe about the naughty words.

Clarence Boddiker

One of the important things to realise is that the millennial generation are 100% on the side of the establishment, basically all of their progressive ideological positions align with the Govt, Media, Corporates, Capitalists...everyone.

This makes them terminally uncool and about as ideologically unattractive as you could possibly get so its no wonder that many of the younger generation look at them with derision and contempt.

Clarence Boddiker

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

One of the important things to realise is that the millennial generation are 100% on the side of the establishment, basically all of their progressive ideological positions align with the Govt, Media, Corporates, Capitalists...everyone.

This makes them terminally uncool and about as ideologically unattractive as you could possibly get so its no wonder that many of the younger generation look at them with derision and contempt.

But shur, so are the younger generation too..I think half the problem is people can't think anymore..they just parrot whatever ideological position they subscribe to, and can't really take it apart, or deal with aspects of it that don't make sense..

overkill602

they missed t-rex ian dury
we give 1 billion to nackers LOL..
Welcome to europe most fcuk up nation

Manach

A recent book, Patrick Dineen's capture's this disenchantment of the establishment progressive order in his book "Why Liberalism Failed". The new orthodoxy is one that embraces the liberal ideology and it has been intolerant of dissent against its blanket tolerance. The idea of free speech has been gutted to mean only speech that supports the liberal world-view is permitted. In Europe Germany bans burning EU flags, France loosely defines hate speech and demands its removal in 24H. Past actions and records are being searched so that any trace of previous dissent is now sufficent to lose one's job ( eg Rodger Scruton). In seeking to overturn social norms and customs and impose these legalistic rule of laws that punishes dissent, we have come to the world that the famous Russian discident Alexender Solzhenitzhen warned against.

The Ireland of my youth was a freer place.

Junkyard Tom

Manach wrote: »

The Ireland of my youth was a freer place.

I'm not sure what age you are but Ireland once had one of the largest incarcerated populations in the 'free' World between psychiatric hospitals, industrial schools, laundries and whatnot.

The crushing stigma of lone-parenting combined with consequent poverty imprisoned people in desperately abusive/dysfunctional families too.

nthclare

I'm glad I started this thread, gives you all a safe place to discuss such matters.

I haven't noticed one infraction, or anyone getting too upset with the other.

Wear your viewpoints like a loosecloak and never let anyone put you in a straight jacket...

It's great to have a discussion and go off in different directions, nothing wrong with a tangent now and again or give an example of where you are coming from, or why you think the way you do.

As long as you want to get it off your chest without intentionally upsetting each other rock on....

maestroamado

I was sent a skit at weekend that reminded me of this old song and thought it be suitable for here.
Anyone under 60 likely have to ask older person what it all means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3s3F1VXFQ4

ILoveYourVibes

I have a theory. Well others before me have said it.

Its not that the new generation rebels against the last. Its that they call out the hypocrisy of the last generation...their pretense. The call out all that was fake.

They call out fake ideologies.

But they do this of both the left and the right. Not just one.

They call out the fake ideologies of both the socialists and the capitalists.

RandomName2

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm not sure what age you are but Ireland once had one of the largest incarcerated populations in the 'free' World between psychiatric hospitals, industrial schools, laundries and whatnot.

The crushing stigma of lone-parenting combined with consequent poverty imprisoned people in desperately abusive/dysfunctional families too.

With all due respect, that's a bit of a straw man.

The rebuttal to the actual point raised would be in terms of censorship on television, print, and radio, the illegality of homosexuality, the lack of available platforms to criticize the Church, and so on.. depending on what decade you are talking about.

While industrial schools and Magdalene laundries, and the lack of freedom to criticize the Catholic Church both have common ancestors, they are not directly linked.

The OP said that there was more freedom of speech in the 80s and 90s. You seem to disagree with him, but have actually not put any argument forward to that end.

FVP3

i am not convinced that the post milenial generation is in fact pro free speech.

40% of [US] Millennials OK with limiting speech offensive to minorities

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/

Worse in Germany -> if you scroll down.

This survey was from 5 years ago.

gormdubhgorm

nthclare wrote: »

I notice that a lot of young people are rebelling against the PC culture and history is repeating itself, young men and women just tired of being shut down, being told what's appropriate for sensitive ears etc.

I am not so sure?
I am mean what is rebelling?

I saw this on the RTE news now.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0517/1138913-friends-would-be-completely-different-in-2020/

Where Kudrow from 'Friends' felt like she had to say the show would be completely different in 2020.
I would have thought that was very obvious. Nearly 20 years finished now and started in the 90's.
At the time all I remember from 'Friends' is a very bland, formulaic, inoffensive, tv show.

What I would like to know who does Kudrow feel she is apologizing to?
Those who feel that Friends is non-pc and backward?

mariaalice

How to deal with the issue of free speech as a guise for something else?

Homophobia dressed up as concern for families or even repressed homosexuality in themselves manifesting its self as hatred of gay people.

A dislike or hatred of travelers repackaged as concern about crime.

There are load of examples like that.

FVP3

Manach wrote: »

A recent book, Patrick Dineen's capture's this disenchantment of the establishment progressive order in his book "Why Liberalism Failed". .

I found that book a hard slog. From what I could get from it though he thinks that liberalism ( by which he means then dominant western world ideology from the 18C) is set up in such a way that it will eventually demand more and more rights, when then have to be policed by an ever more levithanian State. So something that promotes individualism and the reduction of power over people inevitably increases the power of the State..

From Will Self

Deneen argues that the evidence of this [liberal] ideological schizophrenia is all about us—as exemplified by my morning news-go-round: appalled US liberals look to their federal judiciary to bottle the orange-skinned genie unleashed by their own inability to manage popular expectations; while British liberals berate the state for failing to prioritise the rights of a trans minority constituting approximately 0.1 per cent of the population. Underlying it all, from Deneen’s perspective, is the inability of liberal democracies to effect sufficient wealth redistribution in order to justify their own ascription.

FVP3

mariaalice wrote: »

How to deal with the issue of free speech as a guise for something else?

Homophobia dressed up as concern for families or even repressed homosexuality in themselves manifesting its self as hatred of gay people.

A dislike or hatred of travelers repackaged as concern about crime.

There are load of examples like that.

Neither people who dislike travellers or most homophobes hide these arguments, so not sure what is underhand there.

The question is should these views be banned? This is liberalism in contradiction with itself. We could live with homosexual marriage and homophobes in the same political system of course, which is mostly where we are now. Certainly in Ireland.

However liberalism seems to demand more these days, the power of the State to protect feelings as well as acts. This increases the power of the State.

And then, of course, rights conflic with other rightst. In the case of the homosexual rights if you oppose hate speech against gay marriage you are clearly going to come into conflict with religious freedoms of expression. The debate on this is ongoing, in the case of the pastor linked below the Swedish supreme court reveresed the imprisonment of a homophobic pastor, but only because they thought it contravened Europen ( ECHR) law. The police and procescutors fought it all the way to the Supreme Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Åke_Green

As for trans rights the right of someone to believe his or she is whatever gender they want to be is the ultimate liberal ideology; the liberal idea that anybody can be what they want to be, can self actualise and not conform to tradition or cultural norms.

The problem is this liberal ideology needs the State to break down barriers to allow the person of selff identified gender into the spaces of the opposite sex, and therefore it tramples on the rights of people ( mostly biological female) to have their own same sex spaces where necessary.

mariaalice

FVP3 wrote: »

Neither people who dislike travellers or most homophobes hide these arguments, so not sure what is underhand there.

The question is should these views be banned? This is liberalism in contradiction with itself. We could live with homosexual marriage and homophobes in the same political system of course, which is mostly where we are now. Certainly in Ireland.

However liberalism seems to demand more these days, the power of the State to protect feelings as well as acts. This increases the power of the State.

And then, of course, rights conflic with other rightst. In the case of the homosexual rights if you oppose hate speech against gay marriage you are clearly going to come into conflict with religious freedoms of expression. The debate on this is ongoing, in the case of the pastor linked below the Swedish supreme court reveresed the imprisonment of a homophobic pastor, but only because they thought it contravened Europen ( ECHR) law. The police and procescutors fought it all the way to the Supreme Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Åke_Green

As for trans rights the right of someone to bele his or she is whatever gender they want to be is the ultimate liberal ideology; the liberal idea that anybody can be what they want to be, can self actualise and not conform to tradition or cultural norms.

The problem is this liberal ideology needs the State to break down barriers to allow the person of selff identified gender into the spaces of the opposite sex, and therefore it tramples on the rights of people ( mostly biological female) to have their own same sex spaces where necessary.

I understand that but my point is that if an individual hates gay people they may know that expressing that view in any public discourse will vilify themselves, however, if thy express it as concern for family and society they wouldn't get the same censure. It is a kind of bad faith/bad actor argument about free speech

I know that is probably a week argument.

LeYouth

nthclare wrote: »

I notice that a lot of young people are rebelling against the PC culture and history is repeating itself, young men and women just tired of being shut down, being told what's appropriate for sensitive ears etc.


Watching movies from the 80's and 90's where anything goes, is said or lauged about.. is an eye opener for the teens and young adults of today.

It's very refreshing to see that humanity has hope and hopefully romance falling in love will reeamerge and men and women will again get their feet back on the ground.

It's enlightening to see, all these social justice warriors and their ilk are not having any influence on the next 20 something's...

Looks like we're in for a social turn around, and I'm delighted to see people are waking up and ignoring the fake news and political correct brigade's...

Thankfully meme's are getting through to people, and pushing the boundaries again..

As the posh people say, it's going to be a jolly good show and here here...

Onwards and upwards...

Is this in America?

LeYouth

LeYouth wrote: »

Is this in America?

Up the Burren..

suicide_circus

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

One of the important things to realise is that the millennial generation are 100% on the side of the establishment, basically all of their progressive ideological positions align with the Govt, Media, Corporates, Capitalists...everyone.

This makes them terminally uncool and about as ideologically unattractive as you could possibly get so its no wonder that many of the younger generation look at them with derision and contempt.

Bingo.

Where as the "establishment" used to be conservative by its very nature, it has now donned the mantle of leftist progressivism. Governments, quangos, media, entertainment, corporate interests, nice people at dinner parties all espouse progressive ideals...if a kid wants to thumb his nose at "the man", he has but to turn right.

Mad_maxx

mariaalice wrote: »

How to deal with the issue of free speech as a guise for something else?

Homophobia dressed up as concern for families or even repressed homosexuality in themselves manifesting its self as hatred of gay people.

A dislike or hatred of travelers repackaged as concern about crime.

There are load of examples like that.

people distrust - dislike travellers because so many of them are involved in crime or anti social behaviour , we dont feel this way for the fun of it

cause and effect

maestroamado

nthclare wrote: »

I'm glad I started this thread, gives you all a safe place to discuss such matters.

I haven't noticed one infraction, or anyone getting too upset with the other.

Wear your viewpoints like a loosecloak and never let anyone put you in a straight jacket...

It's great to have a discussion and go off in different directions, nothing wrong with a tangent now and again or give an example of where you are coming from, or why you think the way you do.

As long as you want to get it off your chest without intentionally upsetting each other rock on....

Originally Posted by nthclare
I notice that a lot of young people are rebelling against the PC culture and history is repeating itself, young men and women just tired of being shut down, being told what's appropriate for sensitive ears etc.


Watching movies from the 80's and 90's where anything goes, is said or lauged about.. is an eye opener for the teens and young adults of today.

It's very refreshing to see that humanity has hope and hopefully romance falling in love will reeamerge and men and women will again get their feet back on the ground.

It's enlightening to see, all these social justice warriors and their ilk are not having any influence on the next 20 something's...

Looks like we're in for a social turn around, and I'm delighted to see people are waking up and ignoring the fake news and political correct brigade's...

Thankfully meme's are getting through to people, and pushing the boundaries again..

As the posh people say, it's going to be a jolly good show and here here...

Onwards and upwards...




This is somingthing i asked,
"what's going on so i am interested in examples of what you say?"
I hope you right but i have not noticed as i have seen little new happening in recent years...



I think you a fool as you create a post and a few people here asked you and you do not seem to have any opinion of your own to share on your own topic.

KiKi III

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not so sure?
I am mean what is rebelling?

I saw this on the RTE news now.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0517/1138913-friends-would-be-completely-different-in-2020/

Where Kudrow from 'Friends' felt like she had to say the show would be completely different in 2020.
I would have thought that was very obvious. Nearly 20 years finished now and started in the 90's.
At the time all I remember from 'Friends' is a very bland, formulaic, inoffensive, tv show.

What I would like to know who does Kudrow feel she is apologizing to?
Those who feel that Friends is non-pc and backward?

I love Friends, but some of it has aged badly. It’s set in one of the most diverse cities in the US, but all of the main cast and the vast majority of the guest stars and even extras are white.

Giving Ross a black gf in the last season felt like a belated attempt to address this.

There are an awful lot of gay and trans jokes that reflect the norm in the Mid-90s but the world has moved on a lot since then and the jokes don’t land the same way.

KiKi III

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

One of the important things to realise is that the millennial generation are 100% on the side of the establishment, basically all of their progressive ideological positions align with the Govt, Media, Corporates, Capitalists...everyone.

This makes them terminally uncool and about as ideologically unattractive as you could possibly get so its no wonder that many of the younger generation look at them with derision and contempt.

Can you give some examples of young people sharing the ideological positions of the government?

In the two big referendums, young people pushed government parties into more left wing positions than they had ever had traditionally.

Silentcorner

KiKi III wrote: »

Can you give some examples of young people sharing the ideological positions of the government?

In the two big referendums, young people pushed government parties into more left wing positions than they had ever had traditionally.

All the Gender Deconstruction and Feminist codswallop that the establishment has been ramming down our throats.

That backlash will be evident in the next 5 years as the cost of both of these ideologies trickles down through society.

If you don't believe me, check out the fate of The Lib Dems and the Labour Party in the UK....we are typically a few years behind in these matters (like we were in abortion and marriage equality)

KiKi III

Silentcorner wrote: »

All the Gender Deconstruction and Feminist codswallop that the establishment has been ramming down our throats.

That backlash will be evident in the next 5 years as the cost of both of these ideologies trickles down through society.

If you don't believe me, check out the fate of The Lib Dems and the Labour Party in the UK....we are typically a few years behind in these matters (like we were in abortion and marriage equality)

As a card-carrying millennial, I know most of my friends are far more concerned with being able to buy a house at a reasonable price than gender wars.

The outrage on both sides mostly exists online.

Silentcorner

KiKi III wrote: »

As a card-carrying millennial, I know most of my friends are far more concerned with being able to buy a house at a reasonable price than gender wars.

The outrage on both sides mostly exists online.

That is where it will manifest first, as mainstream media are in the grip of this suffocating humourless culture.

This thread is about the probability that the new generation will rebel against the current generation.

This has already happened elsewhere, the institutions that we can see that have embraced this culture (diversity/gender deconstruction/feminism) are tanking.

You are part of the generation that engaged with these shallow ideologies...of course you can't see it!

KiKi III

Silentcorner wrote: »

That is where it will manifest first, as mainstream media are in the grip of this suffocating humourless culture.

This thread is about the probability that the new generation will rebel against the current generation.

This has already happened elsewhere, the institutions that we can see that have embraced this culture (diversity/gender deconstruction/feminism) are tanking.

You are part of the generation that engaged with these shallow ideologies...of course you can't see it!

You’re right, I don’t. That’s why it would be great if you could provide some examples. Which institution have tanked as a result of embracing feminism or diversity?