AE911 truth vs Mick West ( Iron Microspheres)

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

NIST says in their paper fires are only 1000 degress Celcius

The NIST doesn't say this.:rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

The NIST doesn't say this.:rolleyes:

Actually, they do.
In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit).

NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-failure-studies/faqs-nist-wtc-towers-investigation.

Steel has a lower melting point than Iron.

Dohnjoe

This entire thread again falls under the "I don't get it, no one can explain it to me, therefore conspiracy" technique

If we had a rule whereby posters here had to demonstrate their claims, with normal rules, I suspect it would be deserted

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Bunsen burner flame
The hottest part of the Bunsen flame, which is found just above the tip of the primary flame, reaches about 1,500 °C (2,700 °F).


NIST says in their paper fires are only 1000 degress Celcius no Iron or steel melted

There are other means of exposing iron to oxygen than this method. It does not require 1500 C of heat to accomplish. Flint and steel works on this principle:

"Iron, whether man-made objects or naturally occurring in rocks, will rust upon exposure to oxygen in the air. The act of rusting is actually an exothermic reaction called “oxidation”, which is a fancy way of saying when iron touches the oxygen in the air a reaction occurs; the iron rusts (turns into iron oxide) and gives off heat. In other words, it burns.

The simplified chemical reaction can be expressed as:

Fe2 + O2 = Fe2O3 + heat

Or in simple English:

Iron + Oxygen = Rust + Heat

Rusting (oxidizing) is the exact same thing as burning, but unlike a campfire usually you will hardly notice it. Because of the relatively size of a typical iron object, the heat it gives off as it rusts dissipates too quickly for the heat to accumulate and be of much use.

Copyright © SurvivalTopics.com Read more at: http://survivaltopics.com/flint-and-steel-what-causes-the-sparks/"

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36)..

Air tempuratures.
Not fire tempuratures.

You stated for a fact that a candle flame is above 1500 degrees Celsius.
Do you believe that when you light a candle, the air temperature in the room jumps to that?
It kinda seems like you do, and it's about the level of science understanding you have.

Still waiting for you to provide the chemical equation for nanothermite.
Can you not provide it?

King Mob

Overheal wrote: »

There are other means of exposing iron to oxygen than this method. It does not require 1500 C of heat to accomplish. Flint and steel works on this principle:

I tried this line with him already. He accused me of believing there was a giant flint and steel in the buildings.

Cheerful Spring2

Overheal wrote: »

There are other means of exposing iron to oxygen than this method. It does not require 1500 C of heat to accomplish. Flint and steel works on this principle:

"Iron, whether man-made objects or naturally occurring in rocks, will rust upon exposure to oxygen in the air. The act of rusting is actually an exothermic reaction called “oxidation”, which is a fancy way of saying when iron touches the oxygen in the air a reaction occurs; the iron rusts (turns into iron oxide) and gives off heat. In other words, it burns.

The simplified chemical reaction can be expressed as:

Fe2 + O2 = Fe2O3 + heat

Or in simple English:

Iron + Oxygen = Rust + Heat

Rusting (oxidizing) is the exact same thing as burning, but unlike a campfire usually you will hardly notice it. Because of the relatively size of a typical iron object, the heat it gives off as it rusts dissipates too quickly for the heat to accumulate and be of much use.

Copyright © SurvivalTopics.com Read more at: http://survivaltopics.com/flint-and-steel-what-causes-the-sparks/"

Flint and Steel is just Iron oxide (rust) Are we going to stick to the facts here today or not? RL Lee group found massive amounts of pure Iron Fe spheres in 6 percent of WTC dust. Formed during the WTC event. .
Iron Fe spheres melt at 1500 degrees Celsius. If you believe they can make elemental Fe Spheres at lower temperatures provide the science?

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Air tempuratures.
Not fire tempuratures.

?

Like debating a child. Iron Microspheres were previously molten Iron do you dispute that?
NIST saying no steel melted ( how can there be molten Iron?)

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Iron Fe spheres melt at 1500 degrees Celsius. If you believe they can make elemental Fe Spheres at lower temperatures provide the science?

No cheerful, we've done this for you many times. You aren't able to understand.

Show us how nanothermite can produce elementary iron spheres that are somehow immune to oxidiations.
Provide the science.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Like debating a child.

Ever since posters labelled your arguments as childish or child-life, you've started mirroring that, with no basis whatsoever, its hilarious

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Like debating a child. Iron Microspheres were previously molten Iron do you dispute that?

Nope. Never did. You keep misrepresenting me and ignoring things.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Nope. Never did. You keep misrepresenting me and ignoring things.

What temp does Iron melt at?

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

What temp does Iron melt at?

Answered and explained before. Several times, over and over again.
You're demanding answers while answering nothing yourself while you continue to be utterly dishonest and childish.

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Flint and Steel is just Iron oxide (rust) Are we going to stick to the facts here today or not? RL Lee group found massive amounts of pure Iron Fe spheres in 6 percent of WTC dust. Formed during the WTC event.

If we're sticking to facts: Flint is flint, Steel is steel, and Rust is rust. Flint is a sedimentary cryptocrystalline form of the mineral quartz, categorized as the variety of chert that occurs in chalk or marly limestone. In other words: flint is not rust.

.
Iron Fe spheres melt at 1500 degrees Celsius. If you believe they can make elemental Fe Spheres at lower temperatures provide the science?

I would tell you to skip to @## but please admire his indulgent intro.

This wilderness-bro accomplishes the production of iron spheres with his bro-ness, flint, steel, and a microscope.

Calling this "pure iron" is misleading - the reason these spheres don't continue to combust is they have already developed a skin of iron oxide. In the case of steel that can also be a skin of carbon oxides.

Cheerful Spring2

RL Lee group- outlines there position here. They found the Iron Microspheres in dust samples unique to the WTC event.





Finding Fe spheres in the WTC dust- is positive proof Iron melted.

Overheal

Little more scientific analysis

Overheal

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

finding Fe spheres in the WTC dust- is positive proof Iron melted.

Yup. And there's lots of ways for iron particles to melt.

The study didn't find any aluminium oxide. So therefore it shows for a fact there was no thermite reaction.
Case closed.

Cheerful Spring2

Overheal wrote: »

Overheal: you're posting experiments are unrelated- have no application to the WTC event. There single experiments on Youtube. Are you missing the point here there was an abundance of Fe spheres found in the WTC dust?

How did the Iron melt inside the building?
Explain the process- what temp.
Keep in mind NIST says no steel melted (therefore no Iron melted either)

Overheal

Carbon steels can self-ignite in oxygen at 960 C.

Fires of at least this temperature clearly were present, given reports of air temperatures at or exceeding 1,000 C.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1017523922778

Cheerful Spring2

Overheal wrote: »

Carbon steels can self-ignite in oxygen at 960 C.

Fires of at least this temperature clearly were present, given reports of air temperatures at or exceeding 1,000 C.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1017523922778

Ignite= burning
Melting= doesn't change for elemental Iron. The temp is over 1500 degrees Celsius.

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Ignite= burning
Melting= doesn't change for elemental Iron. The temp is over 1500 degrees Celsius.

Carbon steel can self-combust at as low as 960 C.

Then, it starts burning.

As we can see from the live demonstrations I linked to above, once self-combusting, it has more than enough heat and fuel (oxygen) to melt the bulk material, including into spheroids. Clearly in excess of the minimum threshold of 960 C.

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Overheal: you're posting experiments are unrelated- have no application to the WTC event.

That's precisely why they are important: these science experiments are agnostic of whatever conspiracy you are trying to prove or disprove. These show simple the conditions that happen when you introduce iron to oxygen. They not only 'apply' to the WTC event, they apply universally, to all times and instances where iron and oxygen interact.

Cheerful Spring2

Overheal wrote: »

Carbon steel can self-combust at as low as 960 C.

Then, it starts burning.

As we can see from the live demonstrations I linked to above, once self-combusting, it has more than enough heat and fuel (oxygen) to melt the bulk material, including into spheroids. Clearly in excess of the minimum threshold of 960 C.

You not posting the facts here at all. This is the paper. No applicatioon to the WTC7 event at all (zero)

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You not posting the facts here at all. This is the paper. No applicatioon to the WTC7 event at all (zero)

I'm sorry, but these are the facts. A science experiment does not have to be directly labeled as referring to WTC to be applicable to WTC. The findings are universally applicable - including to the WTC event.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You not posting the facts here at all. This is the paper. No applicatioon to the WTC7 event at all (zero)

Again, you're demanding this, but I'm still waiting for you to post the chemical equation for nanothermite's reaction.
And all the experiments and scientific papers that show nanothermite can produce iron microspheres that are immune to oxidastion..
And a hundred other thngs...

Cheerful Spring2

Overheal wrote: »

I'm sorry, but these are the facts. A science experiment does not have to be directly labeled as referring to WTC to be applicable to WTC. The findings are universally applicable - including to the WTC event.

You are confusing combustion and melting.
Where in the report does it say the Iron melted down?

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Steel has a lower melting point than Iron.

...how do you figure?

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You are confusing combustion and melting.
Where in the report does it say the Iron melted down?

I'm not confusing anything.

Combustion continues to occur where excited/heated iron interacts with oxygen, resulting in more material heating up, being exposed to oxygen, combusting, heating up material around it, which leads of course to melting, which leads inexorably to more combustion. Quite a violent chain reaction, in fact. And, that is what we see in the LOX experiment. The reaction stops only when discrete globules of iron no longer have the surface area to sustain combustion that produces enough heat to keep itself molten.

Cheerful Spring2

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not confusing anything.

Combustion continues to occur where excited/heated iron interacts with oxygen, resulting in more material heating up, being exposed to oxygen, combusting, heating up material around it, which leads of course to melting, which leads inexorably to more combustion. Quite a violent chain reaction, in fact. And, that is what we see in the LOX experiment. The reaction stops only when discrete globules of iron no longer have the surface area to sustain combustion that produces enough heat to keep itself molten.

They don't claim that at all. The description they had was (Fe0) is it Iron Oxide.

You claimed it ignited below 1000 degrees Celsius and then the Iron turned Molten, provide that quote.