Social welfare lied about me

Leham

ToddDameron wrote: »

They are incompetent at the best of times, let alone now when all this is going on. Depending on who is on the phone, and how arsed they are doing their job, you'll get a different answer.

This all happened before the pandemic. Ive been getting different answers and different advise and different forms all depending on who I speak to in the office. Its crazy and then they treat you with such contempt like youre a criminal when you ask a question. Its just a nightmare.

Cushie Butterfield

Just pay up & consider yourself lucky that they haven't reported you to the Gardaí for fraud.

BohsCeltic

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Just pay up & consider yourself lucky that they haven't reported you to the Gardaí for fraud.

What a crappy thing to say. She knows she has to pay back but is being told different things everytime.
Hope you feel proud hiding behind that keyboard or that screen in the welfare office.
Maybe one day you might find yourself in a similar situation and realise how hard it is to do things right by being honest about everything and getting treated like scum.

Leham

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Just pay up & consider yourself lucky that they haven't reported you to the Gardaí for fraud.

Sorry but who is it that you think youre speaking too?
Im not paying what I do not owe. It was not fraud, when I collected the payment I informed them I had done so. I will happily pay back what I owe.

I do not consider myself lucky at all. I think its an absolute disgrace that a government body that is designed to protect the most vulnerable in this country can be used to intimidate and manipulate average working people in this way. All the while politicians and mulit international companies get away with paying no taxes and giving themselves massive bonuses.

I will not, under any circumstances allow myself to be bullied by the low lives behind the social welfare desks. It is horrific that they can get away with this sort of treatment. Sad little bully boys is all they are.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

Yes I know theres an over payment, as mentioned I expected there to be and will pay it back no problem.

The issues im having are :

1. They gave false information to the appeals section, they told them I did not provide pay slips - I did. They told them they tried to contact me unsuccesfully this is a lie, they never tried to contact me, I was contacting them myself repeatedly during this time trying to get appropriate information.

2. I was repeatedly given misinformation regarding social welfare payments for months.

3. The over payment is more than what I recieved in welfare payments.

How could the overpayment be higher than what you received?

You would have been given an opportunity to submit any additional information and presenting your argument in writing when you submitted your appeal. Why didn't you present all this as part of your appeal?

If what you are saying is true contact the manager of the Intreo centre and send them a letter/email outlining the full facts of your case including dates you worked, contacted the office and all copies of all the paperwork you sent in.

Leham

square ball wrote: »

How could the overpayment be higher than what you received?

You would have been given an opportunity to submit any additional information and presenting your argument in writing when you submitted your appeal. Why didn't you present all this as part of your appeal?

If what you are saying is true contact the manager of the Intreo centre and send them a letter/email outlining the full facts of your case including dates you worked, contacted the office and all copies of all the paperwork you sent in.

I did this. I first sent a letter stating my case to the manager of the deciding officer, I specifically asked that it was to be looked over by the manager and not the deciding officer, this was at the advice of the lady on the desk. The letter was given to the deciding officer and not the manager despite my request.

The deciding officer stuck with his decision, I was told by someone else in social welfare that I could send the letter to the appeals. The deciding officer tried to stop me from doing this. He wanted me to sign the letter and told me to write 'I do not want this to go to the appeals office' at the bottom of the letter, I refused to write this and told him I did want to appeal it.

I was told to send the letter and nothing else, if documentation is needed, they will contact me. They never contacted me. All payslips and requested documents had been given to the intreo office when I applied for casual dockets at the end of October/Early November.

When I finally got the appeal decision back, on Friday just gone, the letter indicates that the intreo office or deciding officer told the appeals that I did not provide any pay slips and that they tried to communicate with me unnsuccessfully. Neither of these statements are true.

This leads me to think that the intreo office or deciding officer either mistakenly gave them false information or purposly did so for what ever reason, I dont know what that reason is, make of it what you will.

lughildanach

splinter65 wrote: »

I’ve been working with people who have issues with DEASP for 15 years and there is no such payment as “education workers”. I’m trying to work out in my head what scheme you are referring to but it’s escaping me at the moment.
What’s happened to you here is that right back at the very start one of two things happened.
1. When you applied for Jobseekers the deciding officer didn’t explain the rules to you at all
OR
2. The rules were explained and you didn’t understand them. That’s understandable as there’s lots of rules and when your working some and claiming some it’s quite complicated, and some DOs aren’t great at explaining.
However, at the end of the day your understanding of your entitlement and the conditions for Jobseekers is quite quite wrong in many ways and you were overpaid by them and that money has to go back in to the pot.
They are absolutely entitled to go back over your employment income for months and months to get an average per week income. Those are the rules. If you income was €230 per week then you would only have been entitled to €100 per week Jobseekers. If you got more then that over that whole period then the amount you got too much will have to be repaid.

If the error is on the Departmental side of things, no money should be going back into the pot. Although social welfare will often ask for money to be repaid even if it is their fault, but Appeals Office/Ombudsman will often reverse those decisions.

lughildanach

Sounds like what has happened here is that you have tried to appeal the overpayment demand rather than the underlying social welfare decision. Overpayment demands are not appealable.

What is actually appealable is the revised decision regarding the Jobseekers entitlement. What makes things even more complicated in some cases is that the original revised decision is never actually communicated to the claimant. This would mean that no overpayment legally exists. But it won't stop them chasing you for it.

If a revised decision has been issued, this needs to be appealed. Even if the decision is correct (and by the sounds of it, it is not), if the error is on the part of the Department, the Appeals Officer can decide to give effect to the decision from a current date instead of backdating the decision. This would have the effect of cancelling any overpayment.

The area is quite technical. You should seek professional assistance.

Mind if I ask something. I’m assuming that you sign on x and os where x is a day you didn’t have any work at all. It it possible that you put x for a day you taught one class only?

Leham

Deleted User wrote: »

Mind if I ask something. I’m assuming that you sign on x and os where x is a day you didn’t have any work at all. It it possible that you put x for a day you taught one class only?

Hi, sorry I think you have misread my post.
I wasnt signing on x's and o's. I tried to claim casual workers back in October but was denied and told I owe 1015 euro. I have not been recieving any social welfare payments.

Leham

lughildanach wrote: »

Sounds like what has happened here is that you have tried to appeal the overpayment demand rather than the underlying social welfare decision. Overpayment demands are not appealable.

What is actually appealable is the revised decision regarding the Jobseekers entitlement. What makes things even more complicated in some cases is that the original revised decision is never actually communicated to the claimant. This would mean that no overpayment legally exists. But it won't stop them chasing you for it.

If a revised decision has been issued, this needs to be appealed. Even if the decision is correct (and by the sounds of it, it is not), if the error is on the part of the Department, the Appeals Officer can decide to give effect to the decision from a current date instead of backdating the decision. This would have the effect of cancelling any overpayment.

The area is quite technical. You should seek professional assistance.

Thanks for this. It is all so technical, I dont know what professional assistance I can seek?

My plan for now is to go to the post office and try and get copies of singed social welfare reciepts from September/October.

I am just kicking myself that I didnt make copies of forms etc that I handed into social welfare when applying for casual workers.

Leham

Leham wrote: »

Hi, sorry I think you have misread my post.
I wasnt signing on x's and o's. I tried to claim casual workers back in October but was denied and told I owe 1015 euro. I have not been recieving any social welfare payments.

X’s and O’s are casual workers. As others have said, you need get an account of all payments. If you’re registered on myGov.ie I think they’ll be there.

Leham

Deleted User wrote: »

X’s and O’s are casual workers. As others have said, you need get an account of all payments. If you’re registered on myGov.ie I think they’ll be there.

Thanks, yes I know x's and o's are casual payments. This is what I tried to apply for originally. Ill check mygov.ie thanks.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

I did this. I first sent a letter stating my case to the manager of the deciding officer, I specifically asked that it was to be looked over by the manager and not the deciding officer, this was at the advice of the lady on the desk. The letter was given to the deciding officer and not the manager despite my request.

The deciding officer stuck with his decision, I was told by someone else in social welfare that I could send the letter to the appeals. The deciding officer tried to stop me from doing this. He wanted me to sign the letter and told me to write 'I do not want this to go to the appeals office' at the bottom of the letter, I refused to write this and told him I did want to appeal it.

I was told to send the letter and nothing else, if documentation is needed, they will contact me. They never contacted me. All payslips and requested documents had been given to the intreo office when I applied for casual dockets at the end of October/Early November.

When I finally got the appeal decision back, on Friday just gone, the letter indicates that the intreo office or deciding officer told the appeals that I did not provide any pay slips and that they tried to communicate with me unnsuccessfully. Neither of these statements are true.

This leads me to think that the intreo office or deciding officer either mistakenly gave them false information or purposly did so for what ever reason, I dont know what that reason is, make of it what you will.

So how much did you receive and how much are they trying to recoup as an overpayment?

At every stage of every transaction with the DEASP you were either given incorrect information or someone went out of their way to screw you over.

I find it hard to believe that the deciding officer, manager and appeals officer all came to the same decision but you actually have an entitlement and they assessed an overpayment against you.

BohsCeltic

Leham wrote: »

Ill check mygov.ie thanks.

I can't log into that. They either don't send a text with the code or they send it late so it expires. Headache again.

Leham

square ball wrote: »

So how much did you receive and how much are they trying to recoup as an overpayment?

At every stage of every transaction with the DEASP you were either given incorrect information or someone went out of their way to screw you over.

I find it hard to believe that the deciding officer, manager and appeals officer all came to the same decision but you actually have an entitlement and they assessed an overpayment against you.

The deciding officer and appeals are the only ones who looked at and made a decision about my case. Wrongful information was given to appeals, they told appeals I did not give pay slips and thay also told appeals that they tried to communcate with me unnsuccessfully - they didnt.
To me, its comes across as the deciding officer gave wrongful information to the appeals which may have effected the outcome.

Leham

Just to add the deciding officer I was dealing with is no longer working in the intreo center, he was only there for a short time, when I tried to communicate with him after Christmas, he was gone.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

The deciding officer and appeals are the only ones who looked at and made a decision about my case. Wrongful information was given to appeals, they told appeals I did not give pay slips and thay also told appeals that they tried to communcate with me unnsuccessfully - they didnt.
To me, its comes across as the deciding officer gave wrongful information to the appeals which may have effected the outcome.

You had opportunities to provide additional information and attend the appeals meeting if you wished.

How come you didn't provide the payslips or dispute the 'wrongful information' then?

How much are they assessing and how much did you receive?

snowgal

its quite a confusing thread to get through......
If you were not doing X and Os then you must have been receiving the standard €203 per week yes? And then some weeks you did not claim this? It seems you were on the wrong scheme and in effect were receiving the 203 JSA and also actual pay some of that time? Am I missing something else here?

Leham

square ball wrote: »

You had opportunities to provide additional information and attend the appeals meeting if you wished.

How come you didn't provide the payslips or dispute the 'wrongful information' then?

How much are they assessing and how much did you receive?

I didnt know I could attend an appeals meeting? I wasnt informed of this.

Dispute the wrongful information when? Ive only just found out on Friday as it's stated on the letter I recieved. Ive been disputing the over payment since I recieved notification about it.

Theyre stating I owe 1015, I will have to obtain copies of the reciepts before I know exactly how much I owe. Id imagine its roughly 400 - 600. I know I didnt take out money each week within those 5 weeks and didnt work for each of those weeks. I couldnt have as those 5 weeks include a mid term break and one week where I wasnt called by the school to come in at all.

Leham

snowgal wrote: »

its quite a confusing thread to get through......
If you were not doing X and Os then you must have been receiving the standard €203 per week yes? And then some weeks you did not claim this? It seems you were on the wrong scheme and in effect were receiving the 203 JSA and also actual pay some of that time? Am I missing something else here?

Yes this is correct. I was trying to get on the right pay as I was working casually but I could not get accurate information from the intreo center.
Most weeks that I worked over the 5 week period I worked 1 - 4 days, I should have been on some sort of supplementary payment atleast some of the time.
The weeks I worked very few hours, I claimed social welfare as I couldnt support myself otherwise. I told social welfare I claimed while working. I did not claim every week as they are stating I did.

snowgal

Leham wrote: »

Yes this is correct. I was trying to get on the right pay as I was working casually but I could not get accurate information from the intreo center.
Most weeks that I worked over the 5 week period I worked 1 - 4 days, I should have been on some sort of supplementary payment atleast some of the time.
The weeks I worked very few hours, I claimed social welfare as I couldnt support myself otherwise. I told social welfare I claimed while working. I did not claim every week as they are stating I did.

ah ok. Well the fact you were on this JSA rate is wrong to begin with. Thats where the €1015.00 is obviously coming from as they are taking the FULL amount back for those 5 weeks (5 x €203) as they are saying you were ineligible for that payment as you were working during that time. Technically this is correct but why you were on the JS is the part Im not sure of.....

Leham

snowgal wrote: »

ah ok. Well the fact you were on this JSA rate is wrong to begin with. Thats where the €1015.00 is obviously coming from as they are taking the FULL amount back for those 5 weeks (5 x €203) as they are saying you were ineligible for that payment as you were working during that time. Technically this is correct but why you were on the JS is the part Im not sure of.....

Yes exactly, theyre taking the full amount for the 5 weeks which is more than what I claimed. I tried to get on to the right payment. They are now saying, according to appeals, that they tried to contact me unsuccessfully (Whatever that even means?) which isnt true. I was constantly in with them trying to get onto the correct pay and trying to get information.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

I didnt know I could attend an appeals meeting? I wasnt informed of this.

Dispute the wrongful information when? Ive only just found out on Friday as it's stated on the letter I recieved. Ive been disputing the over payment since I recieved notification about it.

Theyre stating I owe 1015, I will have to obtain copies of the reciepts before I know exactly how much I owe. Id imagine its roughly 400 - 600. I know I didnt take out money each week within those 5 weeks and didnt work for each of those weeks. I couldnt have as those 5 weeks include a mid term break and one week where I wasnt called by the school to come in at all.

You can request an oral hearing. It is in the legislation and is written on the gov.ie and citizens information websites. All the information and legislation the Deciding Officer is working from is available to you also.

What exactly did you appeal then?

Put your grievance in writing to the social welfare office and ask for a breakdown of the dates you were overpaid.

Did you get the 5 weeks pay together from your employer. If you were on €203.00 per week they are assessing 5 full weeks payment from you. They probably assessed the overpayment based on the total pay you received divided by number of weeks worked from the date your employment started until it finished as the payslips were probably submitted after the payments had been cashed at the post office.

If you did not cash the payments at the post office it can take up to three weeks for the payments to show up as not collected in the Intreo Centre. They should not be assessing this against you obviously if you did not receive it.

dartboardio

So do you know how much you physically went down to the post office and received?

Surely this would help in determining how much you're actually supposed to pay back

If you know how much/how many weeks you actually collected a payment and how much that was

splinter65

dartboardio wrote: »

So do you know how much you physically went down to the post office and received?

Surely this would help in determining how much you're actually supposed to pay back

If you know how much/how many weeks you actually collected a payment and how much that was

The SW keep a copy of every receipt you sign in the PO when you collect your payment. The date is on it, the name of your payment, some of your PPSN and the exact amount you collected. And of course your handwritten signature. If you ask them for copies of the copy they’ll gladly supply.

splinter65

Leham wrote: »

Thanks for this. It is all so technical, I dont know what professional assistance I can seek?

My plan for now is to go to the post office and try and get copies of singed social welfare reciepts from September/October.

I am just kicking myself that I didnt make copies of forms etc that I handed into social welfare when applying for casual workers.

Why would the PO have copies of the receipts you signed??

Leham

splinter65 wrote: »

Why would the PO have copies of the receipts you signed??

Hi Splinter

I contacted social welfare and asked if I could obtain copies of receipts that I signed, as suggeted by you..

splinter65 wrote: »

Yes certainly they’ll be more then happy to let you see copies of all the receipts you signed in the PO.

The lady I was speaking to in the intreo office told me that social welfare doesnt keep copies of signed reciepts, she can only send me a statement indicating money I was paid during this time, she mentioned I could check with the post office as they might have some record.

A statment of payments is not the same as signed receipts indicating I signed for and collected money.

splinter65

Leham wrote: »

Hi Splinter

I contacted social welfare and asked if I could obtain copies of receipts that I signed, as suggeted by you..



The lady I was speaking to in the intreo office told me that social welfare doesnt keep copies of signed reciepts, she can only send me a statement indicating money I was paid during this time, she mentioned I could check with the post office as they might have some record.

A statment of payments is not the same as signed receipts indicating I signed for and collected money.

If you were getting your payment in the post office then you were getting a full weeks Jobseekers. Were there any weeks that you worked even for a couple of hours on one day that you also went to the PO and collected SW?

Leham

splinter65 wrote: »

If you were getting your payment in the post office then you were getting a full weeks Jobseekers. Were there any weeks that you worked even for a couple of hours on one day that you also went to the PO and collected SW?

Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.

BohsCeltic

splinter65 wrote: »

The SW keep a copy of every receipt you sign in the PO when you collect your payment. The date is on it, the name of your payment, some of your PPSN and the exact amount you collected. And of course your handwritten signature. If you ask them for copies of the copy they’ll gladly supply.

Leham wrote: »

Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.

I know from experience that if you work more than 3 day's, even if it is only for a little you cannot claim.

When i was on a 3 day week my employer often asked me to work an extra day which would mean i could not claim.
So we came to an agreement, it was either 3 days or if they needed extra it would have to be 5 day's payment from them and none from welfare.

Leham

Leham wrote: »

Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.

When you say that you collected welfare on weeks that you only worked a couple of hours, did you sign off for those days that you worked? Your posts are a bit confusing.

splinter65

Leham wrote: »

Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.

Any week you worked even a couple of hours you weren’t entitled to €203. As €203 is the only amount of JS that you can collect in the post office and they are demanding the entire €203 back then you should supply them with proof from your employer/employers of the hours you worked so that they can consider your claim further.
I rang our own SW office today on your behalf and that’s what they advise.

snowgal

splinter65 wrote: »

Any week you worked even a couple of hours you weren’t entitled to €203. As €203 is the only amount of JS that you can collect in the post office and they are demanding the entire €203 back then you should supply them with proof from your employer/employers of the hours you worked so that they can consider your claim further.
I rang our own SW office today on your behalf and that’s what they advise.

That I was getting out with my last post to the OP. The fact is that they were on jobseekers so of course when welfare are looking at the case and this person claimed the money during this time while obviously still working means they are looking for that full jobseekers amount back for the five weeks. Obviously some misunderstanding at the beginning as to why this person was on jobseekers rather than the X and 0. They need to To go back and explain this to sw

splinter65

snowgal wrote: »

That I was getting out with my last post to the OP. The fact is that they were on jobseekers so of course when welfare are looking at the case and this person claimed the money during this time while obviously still working means they are looking for that full jobseekers amount back for the five weeks. Obviously some misunderstanding at the beginning as to why this person was on jobseekers rather than the X and 0. They need to To go back and explain this to sw

Any future correspondence between the OP and the Dept needs to be by letter or email.

Leham

splinter65 wrote: »

Any week you worked even a couple of hours you weren’t entitled to €203. As €203 is the only amount of JS that you can collect in the post office and they are demanding the entire €203 back then you should supply them with proof from your employer/employers of the hours you worked so that they can consider your claim further.
I rang our own SW office today on your behalf and that’s what they advise.

Yes I know im not an entitled to full social welfare when I work. I am well aware of this. I told them I can provide proof that I only worked maybe 1 to a handful of hours those weeks, they know this is it was indicated on the form I filled out when I tried to switch by JA to casual workers.

The main issue is, they are accusing of me having claimed for 5 weeks in a row. I didnt take out money every one of those weeks that theyre saying I did.

They also told appeals - according to the letter they sent me - that it was "noted" that there were "unnsuccessful attempts to contact me" regarding me working and claiming and that "I didnt give them payslips"

There were no unnsuccessful attempts to contact me so why would they say that to appeals? I was in and out of social welfare constantly in Septmeber and October trying to find out what help, if any, was available while I worked casually and temporarily.

I was speaking to the deciding officer several times in the intreo and on the phone during October/November when he was looking over my claim for casual workers.

They have my payslips and a form signed and stamped by the school indicating my wages.

They also have full access to my revenue.

Why would they lie and say I didnt give them payslips? It makes no sense and makes me sound like I was deliberatly lying. Why would they do that?

OP, Are you single or in a relationship? If in a relationship and your partner’s income is assessed, then it’s possible that you’re not entitled to unemployment assistance. There are many variables that we’re not privy to. You need keep calm. Collect all documents, copy them, then go back to Intreo. They’re really not all ogres. In my interactions with them, I’ve never come across a difficult one! You should also clarify your contact details, just in case an error was made there.

Leham

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, Are you single or in a relationship? If in a relationship and your partner’s income is assessed, then it’s possible that you’re not entitled to unemployment assistance. There are many variables that we’re not privy to. You need keep calm. Collect all documents, copy them, then go back to Intreo. They’re really not all ogres. In my interactions with them, I’ve never come across a difficult one! You should also clarify your contact details, just in case an error was made there.

Im single, I havnt left out any details in my posts. Ive tried to get someone in social welfare to listen to me but they wont, they are jumping down my neck before I even open my mouth.

Leham

Leham wrote: »

Im single, I havnt left out any details in my posts.

Ok. Start again from scratch. Take all necessary documentation but make sure that you keep copies. Once you and they see everything written down ye might be able to make sense of it. If you don’t understand what’s being said, and it can be bewildering, ask them to explain it to you.

Leham

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok. Start again from scratch. Take all necessary documentation but make sure that you keep copies. Once you and they see everything written down ye might be able to make sense of it. If you don’t understand what’s being said, and it can be bewildering, ask them to explain it to you.

Half the problem is they are so unnapproachable and constantly giving me wrong or misinformed information. They dont want to listen or help, they want to catch people out on lies, they have total contempt for anyone on the system and see to get a genuine trill out of making life that little bit more difficult for people on social welfare. It is a nightmare trying to speak to them. I have tried, as a last resort, I am writing on boards to try and get help else where.

Leham

Leham wrote: »

Half the problem is they are so unnapproachable and constantly giving me wrong or misinformed information. They dont want to listen or help, they want to catch people out on lies, they have total contempt for anyone on the system and see to get a genuine trill out of making life that little bit more difficult for people on social welfare. It is a nightmare trying to speak to them. I have tried, as a last resort, I am writing on boards to try and get help else where.

I think that you need take a calm approach. They have a job to do. I think that maybe you’re not hearing what they are saying. Take a friend with you and keep calm.

BohsCeltic

Leham wrote: »

Half the problem is they are so unnapproachable and constantly giving me wrong or misinformed information. They dont want to listen or help, they want to catch people out on lies, they have total contempt for anyone on the system and see to get a genuine trill out of making life that little bit more difficult for people on social welfare. It is a nightmare trying to speak to them. I have tried, as a last resort, I am writing on boards to try and get help else where.

The best way i got through to them was through twitter. And now i have written confirmation that i will be paid tomorrow but not backdated as that's an issue with another department.
So i have to prepare for more running around and stress.

I kept calm for 2 months. I worded and spoke everything in a nice manner.
I know it can be so easy to get frustrated but you need to stay cool.

I hope everything works for you. And as the poster above said maybe take someone with you or read through everything as it's very easy to miss or forget details when stressed.

Leham

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that you need take a calm approach. They have a job to do. I think that maybe you’re not hearing what they are saying. Take a friend with you and keep calm.

I am very professional and I am always calm and respectful when speaking to them. I dont see what bringing a friend will do?

Youre not getting it. I am hearing what theyre saying. They already lied to appeals about my case, does that not tell you something?

Besides the money that I dont owe, this got to me more than anything because I was honest with them the whole time yet they turned around lied themselves and innsinuated I was dishonest when they communicated with appeals.
It's not right that a government body or that the people working in the social welfare can lie about claimants and be protected when they do so.
I dont think theyre so stupid that they made a mistake by saying I didnt give payslips, every document I handed in was scanned by them, they have access to everything.

muffler

Leham wrote: »

Ive tried to get someone in social welfare to listen to me but they wont, they are jumping down my neck before I even open my mouth.

You wont get the answer you're looking for on an internet forum.

I admit I havent read all the posts here but you are getting lots of good advice and tips/pointers but with respect it appears that you still arent happy which I suppose is understandable. If its that bad have you considered going to the Ombudsman with your problem?

JustAThought

OP - if you can’ t appeal again take it to the ombudsman. He covers all state employees including HSE & SW staff. They should be able to fix it for you -the whole situation sounds totally unfair. I’d also put the case of your colleague and the different treatment in the same office in. Sounds like poor training / incompetence. Not to mention him not wanting you to appeal - shocking stuff but unsurprising “.

StackSteevens

Leham wrote: »

Half the problem is they are so unnapproachable and constantly giving me wrong or misinformed information. They dont want to listen or help, they want to catch people out on lies, they have total contempt for anyone on the system and see to get a genuine trill out of making life that little bit more difficult for people on social welfare. It is a nightmare trying to speak to them. I have tried, as a last resort, I am writing on boards to try and get help else where.

I suggest that you quit the whining and whataboutery and apply for your SW file under FoI. Read it carefully and then you'll have an understanding of their perspective of your situation.

Here's the address: foi@welfare.ie

Here's what to do: Be sure to state that you're applying under the FOI Act.
Ask for copies of all records relating to your claim for JA/JB between <start date> and now. Also ask for all of the records relating to your appeal or review or both. Tell them you require the records in paper form.

Be sure to include your PPSN, your mobile number and your postal address.

square ball

Leham wrote: »

Yes I know im not an entitled to full social welfare when I work. I am well aware of this. I told them I can provide proof that I only worked maybe 1 to a handful of hours those weeks, they know this is it was indicated on the form I filled out when I tried to switch by JA to casual workers.

The main issue is, they are accusing of me having claimed for 5 weeks in a row. I didnt take out money every one of those weeks that theyre saying I did.

They also told appeals - according to the letter they sent me - that it was "noted" that there were "unnsuccessful attempts to contact me" regarding me working and claiming and that "I didnt give them payslips"

There were no unnsuccessful attempts to contact me so why would they say that to appeals? I was in and out of social welfare constantly in Septmeber and October trying to find out what help, if any, was available while I worked casually and temporarily.

I was speaking to the deciding officer several times in the intreo and on the phone during October/November when he was looking over my claim for casual workers.

They have my payslips and a form signed and stamped by the school indicating my wages.

They also have full access to my revenue.

Why would they lie and say I didnt give them payslips? It makes no sense and makes me sound like I was deliberatly lying. Why would they do that?

But if you were claiming as a person that was fully unemployed then started work the procedure is normally to suspend your payment issue you out the casual Jobseeker's paperwork and then pay you arrears if you are entitled to them once your means has been assessed.

You would not normally be left on a fully unemployed JA claim if you had told them you had regular casual employment at the start of your employment. They would have stopped your payment if they were aware you had regular employment over the period you were working.

Did your payment stop when you told them you were working or when the Commencement of Employment form wasn't returned?

Your payslips don't tell tell her many days you worked each week. The access to revenue is limited enough also.

They will also be able to see the weeks your payments were cashed and they will show up now if they weren't cashed so would have reviewed this before going to appeal.

The social welfare week for Jobseeker's Allowance runs from Wednesday to Tuesday not Monday to Friday so may be why there is still 5 weeks overpayment if you didn't pick up a payment in the middle of this period.

splinter65

Leham wrote: »

Yes I know im not an entitled to full social welfare when I work. I am well aware of this. I told them I can provide proof that I only worked maybe 1 to a handful of hours those weeks, they know this is it was indicated on the form I filled out when I tried to switch by JA to casual workers.

The main issue is, they are accusing of me having claimed for 5 weeks in a row. I didnt take out money every one of those weeks that theyre saying I did.

They also told appeals - according to the letter they sent me - that it was "noted" that there were "unnsuccessful attempts to contact me" regarding me working and claiming and that "I didnt give them payslips"

There were no unnsuccessful attempts to contact me so why would they say that to appeals? I was in and out of social welfare constantly in Septmeber and October trying to find out what help, if any, was available while I worked casually and temporarily.

I was speaking to the deciding officer several times in the intreo and on the phone during October/November when he was looking over my claim for casual workers.

They have my payslips and a form signed and stamped by the school indicating my wages.

They also have full access to my revenue.

Why would they lie and say I didnt give them payslips? It makes no sense and makes me sound like I was deliberatly lying. Why would they do that?

Yes but even if you only worked 1 hour in the week then you weren’t entitled to the full €203. And you collected the full €203 anyway so there’s your problem.
You’re not getting that at all and you won’t get any more SW until you’ve sorted it out. You’ve been advised here what to do but your not interested.

Cherry Blossom

Sorry just to add to the above you keep saying you didn't claim for weeks you were working more hours meaning you didn't collect it. You did claim as you didn't sign off. Claiming and collecting are two different things. You don't get to decide what weeks you have enough money from work and what weeks you don't. It is for sw to decide, not you. The fact of it is that you claimed money from sw fraudulently. It is irrelevant whether you collected that money of not. As someone else has said it takes time to bounce back to sw when you don't collect a payment. They don't know yet that you didnt collect some weeks. As has been advised contact them in writing with the exact dates of money you collected and didnt collect and your payslips and a letter from your employer outlining what hours you worked each day for the five week period and it will be sorted out. Your posts here are quite muddled and hard to follow so ask someone to proofread what you are sending them before you send it. Provide concise, clear explanations and send it by registered post.

Good luck.

Cupatae

Leham wrote: »

Hi can anyone please help me as I dont know what to do.

A bit of back story, im a sub tutor on the unqualified rate of pay, last year 2018 - 2019 I worked in the same school all year and from January my hours were cut to part time so social welfare put me on casual dockets, I remained on these until the Summer when I went on to full social welfare payment.

At the end of September 2019 I got a subbing job in a new school, initially it was supposed to be for one week, I told social welfare and my payment was suspended. I collected for that week and informed social welfare that I had collected my payment, it remained suspended for two weeks. I then told social welfare the employment had ended and provided a letter from the school.
After this the school contacted me intermittently over the next 4 weeks. During this I worked 1 - 10 hours a week. I always told social welfare I was working, the weeks I worked 1 or so hours, I collected my social welfare (informed them I was doing so) as I was not getting paid much, I could literally be getting a couple of euro for a week. I didnt collect money on the weeks I was working more hours, I made a point of not doing so but obviously I have no way of proving this. I wasnt working on the mid term break and collected for this week, like all non permanent school staff do.

During this time, social welfare never tried to change my payment to casual dockets, they never tried to dock the days or hours I worked from my pay and never suggested I go onto education workers. I didnt know what payments I should be on and my local social welfare were not very unhelpful


During the mid term break I went back to social welfare to try and get onto the casual dockets as I had been on the previous acedemic year. I was given forms, filled them out, had my hours and wages filled out and signed by the school and brought everything I was asked to bring to social welfare.
A few weeks past and I got a letter stating my payment dating back to May (When I finished in the previous school) has been disqualified and that I owe social welfare 1015 euro.

They said my average income was 230 a week during September/October. When I questioned this, they took the amount I had earned over that entire time and broke it down, spreading it across each week, so even though in one week I might have earned less than 50 euro, in another week I might have earned 300 (and wouldnt have collected payment for this week), they averaged all my pay it over the entire month and said I earned 230 a week.

Any money I owe to social welfare I am more than willing to pay back would not expect to claim if I was working/earning anything close to the social welfare payment but theyre saying I took out money every week which I know I didnt I just have no way of proving, I only took out money when I was really stuck and working very few or no hours and I always informed social welfare.

When I questioned this I was put in contact with the deciding officer, he contacted me and when through my pay in revenue, he was focusing on pay that I got when I wasnt claiming, I got 3 weeks full time teaching in an ETB school in November where I was earning the qualified rate, they pay monthly so I got the pay in one lumpsum, he read it out to me and said it like I was rolling in money and looking for social welfare. - they should have put me on the education workers which I later found out, from staff in my school, that I should be on this payment. Instead they stayed focused on my application for casual dockets which I only applied for at the time because I didnt think I was going to get many more hours and the work was so intermittent, I didnt want to stop taking the work but I wouldnt have been able to live off it. If I had known I was going to get further hours and even full time hours, I wouldnt have applied for casual dockets but thats how it is being a casual teacher, you are literally waiting by the phone day to day.

I went to social welfare who told me to keep having the dockets filled out by the school and to continue handing them in so this is what I did, while in with the secretary in the school, she told me to apply for the education workers as thats what she gets.

I asked about it in social welfare and was told no I am not entitled to that as my income is too high. I said I had been on it the previous year and was told the system has changed now and im no longer entitled to it at all.

I was adivsed to have my application sent for an appeal, which I requested, I was called in for an appointment with the deciding officer as I had to sign a letter which I had sent in regarding the issue, while there the deciding officer didnt want me to try and appeal, so he tried to push me into writing 'I do not want this sent for appeal' on the letter under my signature.. I said no to him and he left it at that, the appeal was sent off.

Around Jan/Feb while in the staff room in work I got speaking to another sub teacher who is contracted, on a higher pay scale than me and was working more hours, she said she was getting the education workers, she also goes to the same intreo office as me.. I said I was told I wasnt entitled to this and she said no, I am entitled. So I went back in to social welfare that afternoon and told them I should be on education workers, the woman at the desk belligerently handed me forms to get filled out by the school. I got the filled out, brought them back to social welfare, the person behind the desk - different from the previous woman, told me they wearnt the right forms and gave me the right ones, so I had to get those ones signed and handed in which I did. - I recieved no payment for mid terms as my previous claim was still suspended so I was told I couldnt get any payments until that suspension is lifted.

Yesterday I finally got my appeal back stating that it has been denied my social welfare has been stopped and I owe them 1015... the part of this that is really getting to me, apart from the fact I didnt claim for every one of those weeks I worked in Spetmeber/October, and the besides the fact social welfare repeatedly gave me wrong information and messed me around all year, on the letter I got back it says no Payslips were provided by the appellent - I did give payslips, I remember having them photocopied. It also says "It is noted that unsuccessful attempts were made by the intreo office to contact the appellant regarding her case'

I was in constant communication with the social welfare, at no point did they unnsuccessfully try to contact me or advise me in anyway. If anything, I was trying to get correct information off them for months.

This has annoyed me as I was completely honest with them and I feel this comment implies that I wasnt, it sounds like they are attempting to throw me under the bus to cover their own backs. This is either a mistake on their part or a blatant lie on their part and I have every intention of taking it further. What is the point in anyone being honest with social welfare if they will turn around and say you were dishonest when you wearnt.

I rang the appeals office but they said I need to send a letter to another department. I rang my local social welfare but the woman who answered told me theyre only dealing with Covid payments and I will have to email. I asked her if I can still get the education workers payment, she told me she doesnt know and doesnt want to give me the wrong information.

I just dont know what to do or where to turn? I do owe social welfare which I have no problem paying but I dont owe as much as theyre saying I do. I also have been messed around by them all year, I shouldnt have to find out off other staff what payment I should be on, thats the jobs of the staff in social welfare. I am fuming that they lied and said they made unsuccessful attempts to contact me.

Can anyone help? I dont know what to do?.

One of the most gripping books I've ever read