Italy re-opening borders to tourists = Wave number 2 in Europe?

kenmc

We've a holiday booked to Italy first week in July. Won't be going. Not worth the risk. Aerlingus vouchers +10% value, push it out to next year.

Dtp1979

GT89 wrote: »

I'd tell you what next week I'm off work and if there was a flight going I'd bite your arm off for it. I'm sick to death of working my arse off as an essiential worker only to be told I must stay at home for my summer holiday. I think I bloody well deserve a week in the sun.

That kind of attitude is gonna kill a lot of people

JJayoo

The UK is far worse than Italy, why isn't the OP crying about the UK being open?

GT89

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Would you enjoy it though?

I feel the same as you, absolutely desperate to get away and haven't taken any leave in over a year now. Was meant to go away in April but it got cancelled. But as much as I'd love a holiday, I'm not sure it'd be much of a holiday with worrying about getting ill at the airport or on the plane, wondering if your hotel room was properly cleaned, if your food was safe, if anyone in the hotel had coronavirus, etc. I feel like I'd end up more stressed than when I left.

Tbh I'm not really bothered by the virus. I'm not in a high risk category and I am well able to avoid anyone who is. What stresses me out more is other people's reaction.

ShineOn7

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Italian PM has acknowledged they are taking a high risk but claims they have no choice.

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?



Terrible logic from their PM tbh

ShineOn7

GT89 wrote: »

I'd tell you what next week I'm off work and if there was a flight going I'd bite your arm off for it. I'm sick to death of working my arse off as an essiential worker only to be told I must stay at home for my summer holiday. I think I bloody well deserve a week in the sun.

You'd fly into the country that started the spread of this in the EU and still has a huge number of casualties a day?



Seriously?

hmmm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?

Tourism is something like 15% of their economy, and a lot of that 15% comes over the next few months.

Even if there was a second wave, it wouldn't come that quickly as social distancing rules are still in force - it would build up over a few months, and not as quickly as the first wave.

I'm guessing they figure it's worth the risk to make a huge amount of money over the coming months, and if they have to lockdown in October/November for a few weeks it's not the end of the world. I expect Greece and maybe Spain might do something similar.

Utimately we are going to have to learn to live with this virus until hopefully a vaccine or treatment emerges, and maybe a holiday somewhere you are almost certainly going to be outdoors is the right thing. Personally I'd be avoiding public transport, and hopefully the airlines and airports will do something to avoid crowded terminals (big tents outside?).

Mike3287

ShineOn7 wrote: »

You'd fly into the country that started the spread of this in the EU and still has a huge number of casualties a day?

Seriously?

Why not

Hes young and fit

More chance of him dieing on the plane over

99.9% of young people like him survive this

It aint a death sentence

Its not rabies

NIMAN

ShineOn7 wrote: »

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?



Terrible logic from their PM tbh

But there is a difference this time.
1st time, people were going about their normal lives, knew nothing of the virus or how to help curb it.

This time people are going about their normal lives, within Gov restrictions which may still be in place,and they are socially distancing, washing their hands, possibly wearing masks and gloves etc.

Opening after lockdown isn't like being open pre-lockdown. We all know so much more.

Kermit.de.frog

hmmm wrote: »

Tourism is something like 15% of their economy, and a lot of that 15% comes over the next few months.

Even if there was a second wave, it wouldn't come that quickly as social distancing rules are still in force - it would build up over a few months, and not as quickly as the first wave.

I'm guessing they figure it's worth the risk to make a huge amount of money over the coming months, and if they have to lockdown in October/November for a few weeks it's not the end of the world. I expect Greece and maybe Spain might do something similar.

Utimately we are going to have to learn to live with this virus until hopefully a vaccine or treatment emerges, and maybe a holiday somewhere you are almost certainly going to be outdoors is the right thing. Personally I'd be avoiding public transport, and hopefully the airlines and airports will do something to avoid crowded terminals (big tents outside?).

Yes but the problem occurs when people see imagery from over stretched hospitals and coffins piling up with military trucks having to provide transport for said coffins to overwhelmed funeral homes as happened in March.

The public won't tolerate that.

GT89

ShineOn7 wrote: »

You'd fly into the country that started the spread of this in the EU and still has a huge number of casualties a day?



Seriously?

I'm entitled to a bloody holiday after working my ass off. I have the money and I think I've earned it. Tbh I'd probably get more health benefit out going on holiday from vitamin D. Too add insult to injury I have no doubt the Germans will be in Italy in they're droves this summer.

ednwireland

cant afford not to simple really. unfortunately the death toll is the cost.
if you want to keep the stuff you have then this is the price. the government anywhere will not keep paying a significant proportion of the working population to sit at home as it simply cant afford it. hence the economy has to open up.
the only thing I'm surprised at is that it closed to the extent it did

yes I am a complete cynic

ShineOn7

hmmm wrote: »

Tourism is something like 15% of their economy, and a lot of that 15% comes over the next few months.

25% of Thailand's GDP comes from Tourism. I've read a staggering 66% of Bali's comes from it

Yet neither are planning on re-opening

What we're seeing from Italy's government, America's and more is them succumbing to pressure from businesses there

ednwireland

ShineOn7 wrote: »

What we're seeing from Italy's government, America's and more is them succumbing to pressure from businesses there

and if they dont reopen how will you wages get paid how will the hospitals and doctors and nurses get paid. please tell me.

GT89

It needs to be remembered it's not anyones fault this has spread for doing normal everyday things. The fault lies completely and totally with China but if you criticize China for crippling your economy and killing thousands of your citizens unesscarily at a national level then it's no masks for you

NIMAN

ednwireland wrote: »

and if they dont reopen how will you wages get paid how will the hospitals and doctors and nurses get paid. please tell me.

Borrow it on the never/never like us?

mulbot

GT89 wrote: »

It needs to be remembered it's not anyones fault this has spread for doing normal everyday things. The fault lies completely and totally with China

And a bit with the guy who sent over the 3.7 million dollars for from the US to the Wuhan lab?

iguana

NIMAN wrote: »

This is hard to police though.

When you fly back in and are told at the airport to isolate, are those people going to follow you home and watch you for the next week or two?

That blogpost from the woman returning home to Hong Kong a couple of days ago showed that everyone entering the country had to wear an electronic tagging bracelet for 14 days. (After they had tested negative at the airport.)

lainey_d_123

ShineOn7 wrote: »

No choice but to spread it again and have another lockdown in a month?



Terrible logic from their PM tbh

I suppose there's two ways of seeing it (vastly simplified, of course)

1) This is an acute problem, and we should be very aggressive in dealing with it now, shutting down as much as possible until cases and risk are at a very, very low level.

2) This is something we're going to have to live with for several years, minimum, and shutting everything down isn't an option, so we'll have to do some trial and error while getting back to something approaching 'normal'.

ChelseaRentBoy

I think the Italian PM said they have to do it. I'll be honest i think eventually everyone is going to have a second wave and there is little we can do about it.

Some top guy in the US said a few days ago that this coming winter could very well be the darkest in living memory. Gave me pause for thought.

dohouch

Here's me at 4am advising world governments as to the correct policies to follow and divil a bit of notice the pay to me., might as well go back to bed. Listening to a blind man saying "shur can't you see", and the deaf man saying "shur all I hear is...." and the mute saying.........))))). So whether to show the blind man, listen to the mute, or just tell the deaf man I'm just a little confused as to the next step for me. If only Elon Musk had a seat for me might drop out of this mixed up planet untill things return to to halcyon days of yore

NIMAN

iguana wrote: »

That blogpost from the woman returning home to Hong Kong a couple of days ago showed that everyone entering the country had to wear an electronic tagging bracelet for 14 days. (After they had tested negative at the airport.)

Thats HK though, we ain't going to be doing that at our airports.

Maybe hand out a leaflet or two.

Could be a sign that we are close to having a treatment. Maybe not a vaccine but at least something that can prevent death. It's the only thing that makes sense. Italy, UK, US etc all taking a calculated risk to open up early knowing that a treatment will be available before a 2nd peak.

The most telling sign to me is the lack of condemnation from other EU and world leaders.

It may also be necessary to have the virus spreading in the general community in order to trial vaccines. Again, another sign that the easing of restrictions in such a drastic way could indicate we are close. Particularly in the UK who would appear to be leading the race for a vaccine.

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

Could be a sign that we are close to having a treatment. Maybe not a vaccine but at least something that can prevent death. It's the only thing that makes sense. Italy, UK, US etc all taking a calculated risk to open up early knowing that a treatment will be available before a 2nd peak.

The most telling sign to me is the lack of condemnation from other EU and world leaders.

It may also be necessary to have the virus spreading in the general community in order to trial vaccines. Again, another sign that the easing of restrictions in such a drastic way could indicate we are close. Particularly in the UK who would appear to be leading the race for a vaccine.

I fear you're giving these people way too much credit.

Thespoofer

NIMAN wrote: »

This is hard to police though.

When you fly back in and are told at the airport to isolate, are those people going to follow you home and watch you for the next week or two?

I think in Poland the local Police will come to your home to check you're there/isolating, from what I heard anyway. They were friendly enough about it too.

Thespoofer

GT89 wrote: »

I'm entitled to a bloody holiday after working my ass off. I have the money and I think I've earned it. Tbh I'd probably get more health benefit out going on holiday from vitamin D. Too add insult to injury I have no doubt the Germans will be in Italy in they're droves this summer.

I have to agree with you, a holiday might stem that built up anger inside of you.

is_that_so

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Yes but what about all the tourists who go there for cheap deals and bring it back to their country?

Wasn't the initial spread of this in Ireland thought to have stemmed from a large group of Irish returning from a ski trip in Italy?

Where is this all disease going to come from? It's no longer an unknown and systems are at a point where they can swiftly test the crap out of it. No other country including China has seen a second wave and now it is beginning to look like people are paying far too much attention to 1918. It may well return later in the year and into the winter but we're much better equipped to face that possibility.

CalamariFritti

GT89 wrote: »

I'm entitled to a bloody holiday after working my ass off. I have the money and I think I've earned it. Tbh I'd probably get more health benefit out going on holiday from vitamin D. Too add insult to injury I have no doubt the Germans will be in Italy in they're droves this summer.

Why would that be 'adding insult to injury'. What did the Germans do to stop you going on holidays? Thats besides the idea that they will be there 'in their droves' which I doubt. Don't you think they live in fear of the virus too atm?

MrDavid1976

RandomViewer wrote: »

Anyone going will have to isolate on return so hope everyone has plenty of holiday days saved

No they won’t. On many levels that policy from an EU country is illegal and the EU has already put down a marker.

ek motor

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

No they won’t. On many levels that policy from an EU country is illegal and the EU has already put down a marker.

Yes they will.

'You will need to self-isolate for 14 days if you arrive in Ireland from any other country. This includes Irish citizens coming home.

Self-isolation means staying indoors and completely avoiding contact with other people.'

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html