Covid and Obesity

splinter65

smurfjed wrote: »

Is that a requirement to post here?

I Expressed the following opinion, “COVID is here to stay, I would have thought that anyone who could enhance their chances of dealing with this disease would take the opportunity to make lifestyle changes.”

So what do you think yourself?

You clearly think that the only treatment needed for obesity issues is a few lifestyle changes on behalf of the obese person. That’s contradicting medical opinion, which in turn begs the question as to your medical qualifications to hold such an opinion. But I see you’ve none. You’re just spouting bull. That’s fine too. Don’t get so upset when you get called out over it.

splinter65

quokula wrote: »

You seem to think the 19 stone person would lose all the weight if only someone informed them that they should, as if they were somehow unaware and they just decided they wanted to be obese for the craic.

Very popular opinion among the pathologically stupid, as you can see here.

Cobalt17

UrbanFret wrote: »

Some people are naturally heavier than others. That's a simple fact, no doubt about it. I mean come on according to all these BMI calculators no one should weigh more than 12 st, I'd need to be on hunger strike for a month to get to that weight. 5ft 9" weigh 14st 6lb. Walk 6km a day. eat healthy don't smoke ,rarely drink. how do I get down to my recommended weight of 11st fk all?

Caloric deficit. I read somewhere that -500 calories per day, will burn a pound of fat per week. It’s a long slog. I say this as someone who was 230lbs and I’m not at 200lbs.

That being said, you can be fit and out of shape at the same time, it’s called fit-fat

Mad_Dave

splinter65 wrote: »

Very popular opinion among the pathologically stupid, as you can see here.

By that logic should we stop all campaigns to encourage smokers to quit, or warning people about the dangers of alcohol or drugs - surely these groups are also already aware of the damage they're doing to their health as well ?

ahnowbrowncow

Cobalt17 wrote: »

Caloric deficit. I read somewhere that -500 calories per day, will burn a pound of fat per week. It’s a long slog. I say this as someone who was 230lbs and I’m not at 200lbs.

That being said, you can be fit and out of shape at the same time, it’s called fit-fat

Good name for a chocolate protein bar.

splinter65

Mad_Dave wrote: »

By that logic should we stop all campaigns to encourage smokers to quit, or warning people about the dangers of alcohol or drugs - surely these groups are also already aware of the damage they're doing to their health as well ?

Do you honestly think there’s smokers out there striking a light and saying to themselves “ hopefully now this fag will cure my sore throat”? Lord save us. Alcoholics and heavy smokers know it’s bad for them. The campaigns only make them worse. It’s societies rejection of them that makes them give it up.

quokula

Mad_Dave wrote: »

By that logic should we stop all campaigns to encourage smokers to quit, or warning people about the dangers of alcohol or drugs - surely these groups are also already aware of the damage they're doing to their health as well ?

There are very few ads that say "smoking is bad and you should quit"

There are many ads that say "if you're trying to quit you're not alone and here are supports available to you"

The warnings on packets etc are more about stopping people from starting than getting existing smokers to quit.

I've never seen any campaign, or anyone in general, as judgemental and vitriolic towards smokers as people are towards the overweight.

smurfjed

@splinter65, I will happily acknowledge that i have ZERO medical knowledge, never actually said that I did.

But as someone who bounces around a BMI of 30, I decided for personal reasons that i would prefer to be lighter, will it make it easier for my body to fight this crap, well I hope so.

Very interesting article https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/obesity-covid-19

That looks at both sides of the argument and DOESNT PROVIDE a definitive answer, however I found this interesting.

In an effort to push back, higher-weight people are using hashtags like #weareessential, #nobodyisdispoable, and #noICUgenics on Instagram and Twitter to beg healthcare workers to consider their lives, should we reach a point when resources like ventilators are in short supply and doctors have to choose who gets treatment and who does not. In an open letter to medical professionals, those in the #nobodyisdisposable movement wrote: “Before COVID-19, marginalized communities have had reason to fear bias in medical settings. We are terrified of being killed by the people who are supposed to care for us. Let’s protect each other and fight for the resources and policies we need to get through this emergency together.”

marilynrr

Flimsy_Boat wrote: »

Normal weight women who are not in danger of anorexia (20 BMI) who look 'skinny' - https://app.mybodygallery.com/#/?height=175&weight=64

People don't become anorexic once they reach a certain weight. Sometimes even very 'skinny' people who are bordering the underweight category have a great relationship with food and are not trying to be skinny so they do not fit the criteria at all for anorexia and so are not in danger of anorexia..and on the other hand there can be overweight people who fit all the criteria to be considered anorexic, they're just not underweight! That's called atypical anorexia. Bulimia is common among overweight people also.

Deleted User wrote: »

Mental Health is definitely over-used as a reason/excuse for many things. Weight, in my opinion, is directly affected to mental health, though.

People who are of sound mind, mentally stable and secure, don't sit around the house all day, never going out, binge eating. And this is exactly what you have to do to gain substantial weight.

I agree somewhat but think in some cases it's a chicken and egg scenario though.
Junk food is by its very nature addictive and can make people feel lethargic and can affect mental health, it is very easy to get into a habit of eating bad food and then not being active because you don't have the energy to do so. Add some weight gain to that and then maybe some more body image concerns start to grow, keep up the unhealthy eating and lack of activity and the mental health problems will continue to grow, it's a vicious cycle.

Mad_Dave

splinter65 wrote: »

It’s societies rejection of them that makes them give it up.

Apologies if I'm taking this up wrong but your solution is not to offer education, support and help to people who want to make healthy life choices but to subject them to social rejection ?

If so then I'm sorry, but that's by far and away the stupidest thing I've heard all year.

4068ac1elhodqr

You have to hand it to big singer Adele, she lost 5st in a matter of months using simple lifestlye changes.
This blows the largies that use the notion of "just naturally big boned, so I is".

Simple solution is to start banning sugar as an additive to processed foods.
The worst culprits are the low-fat snack bars (low fat, but plastered with sugars).

NSAman

Sage Prickly Pub wrote: »

You have to hand it to big singer Adele, she lost 5st in a matter of months using simple lifestlye changes.
This blows the largies that use the notion of "just naturally big boned, so I is".

Simple solution is to start banning sugar as an additive to processed foods.
The worst culprits are the low-fat snack bars (low fat, but plastered with sugars).

Everyone can benefit from eating more healthily. Simple changes to your lifestyle as we all know can mean weight loss and much better health.

Is it easy? No!

That is the issue.

There are "bigger build" people out there, no body shape is standard. So seeing people plastered on magazines looking like the "ideal" is never going to be the "norm" for many people.

However, many people simply do not invest the time in themselves to make those changes happen. Take it from someone who was morbidly obese. It is FAR from easy to change your cosy lifestyle.

It requires effort, it requires will power, it requires goal chasing. It requires a lot of work that many people just do not want to put in, which is a shame as the resulting benefits outweigh all the hardship you DO put into it.

I know how much different my life is now compared to 10 years ago.

What really saddens me, is seeing very large YOUNG women with their very large children in supermarkets. You just know that the poor child has little guidance on how to eat properly. You just know that the child and the parent in many cases are just getting by, buying what they can afford and in most cases that is not the most healthy option.

I am lucky in that I have will power, I have the education and enquiring mind to make the changes I needed for myself and my family. I may not live as long as I want, but I know the changes I have made will lengthen the time I have to enjoy my family as much as possible, in a body that can sustain me longer than the body I had previously.

Am I perfect? Of course not, we all have breakout sessions of pizza etc.. etc..

Mad_Dave

NSAman wrote: »

It requires effort, it requires will power, it requires goal chasing. It requires a lot of work that many people just do not want to put in, which is a shame as the resulting benefits outweigh all the hardship you DO put into it.

Well said, the only thing I'd add is the amount of time it takes to achieve these goals.

The fitness industry seems to be awash with clickbait titles like 'how to get a six pack in 4 weeks!' or 'lose a stone in two weeks!' when in reality it'll likely take months or years to achieve some of your goals.

ampleforth

I believe that a strong will can lead to weight improvements. I hope this statement does not offend anybody.

What I do think is absolutely necessary is that one has to cook at home as all that processed stuff and the eating out do you no good. But, luckily, the second option is now almost taken away (for now at least). The first however has probably worsened --- take-outs are all around us... and we all love the free extras that come with extra large orders...

McCrack

CivilCybil wrote: »

It would be great if that was an available service. In my own experience if you can't pay for it, forget it.
Obesity won't be prioritised when resources are stretched so thin (pardon the pun!)

No not obesity that's the symptom. Im saying if you get a referral through your GP to the HSE local mental health services either community or hospital. At least get in the list if you are public.

McCrack

McCrack wrote: »

No not obesity that's the symptom. Im saying if you get a referral through your GP to the HSE local mental health services either community or hospital. At least get in the list if you are public.

More bloody mental health. If someone wants to lose weight then that’s the last thing to be looking at. Such a buzzword for everything these days.

fr336

It's quite bizarre the amount of bitterness towards the overweight. You see none of this towards smokers, drinkers - in fact quite the opposite, there was until recently an embarrassingly high amount of binge drinking in Ireland and UK. Personally I got to 16 stone a few years back which was obese for my height but I then cut everything bad out - sweets, biscuits, crisps, cakes, fizzy drinks, alcohol, you name it - I didn't touch any of it for a good year not even as a treat. In no time I was down in the 11s. Does this make me a great person? No, I did it for ME and had a great time after the first difficult stages. Did I look down on the people who moan about fat people but who were now bigger than me? No, I have a life. I can guarantee a good 80% of obese people have depression or similar. It's not really the food they like it's the food filing the empty hole in their lives. An empty hole often created after years of being dragged down by bullies such as those who belittle fat people. I should know as I was one of those depressed comfort eaters. Leave the fat shaming to doctors who will usually put it in a slightly more positive and less self interested manner.

brookers

Im very overweight, obese, I have put on about 5 kgs since lock down. Im so embarrassed that I wear cardigans and coats in hot weather to hide it. The funny thing is that im a great cook, dont like junk food or takeaways but I eat far too much of the good stuff and would have a bit of a sweet tooth. I find exercise now a bit hard as i get sore knees and back ache. Im not ugly and have nice other bits but I dont have that would kill for a slim body, like i would never miss a meal to stay thin or just drink shakes. Sometimes I eat when I dont even have an appetite, it is just that time of the day etc. I dont smoke and drink very little alcohol. A lot of my thin friends would drink a lot, some i would say are bordering on being heavy drinkers, time will only make that worse. but the one thing they will be so good at is staying thing. Huge will power. I accept that I am very overweight and it is really bad for me and not good for my long term health and that I have wasted a lot of my good years by being fat, i like fashion, look nice in nice clothes but I have let myself go. I would never say to any of my friends you have a problem with drink because they would be justified in saying your weight is a problem.

fr336

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

More bloody mental health. If someone wants to lose weight then that’s the last thing to be looking at. Such a buzzword for everything these days.

Do you not want mental health dealt with? If all mental health was dealt with then I suspect we would have less obesity, less crime, more productivity, hell you might even have less taxes Reginald!

fr336

fr336 wrote: »

It's quite bizarre the amount of bitterness towards the overweight. You see none of this towards smokers, drinkers - in fact quite the opposite, there was until recently an embarrassingly high amount of binge drinking in Ireland and UK. Personally I got to 16 stone a few years back which was obese for my height but I then cut everything bad out - sweets, biscuits, crisps, cakes, fizzy drinks, alcohol, you name it - I didn't touch any of it for a good year not even as a treat. In no time I was down in the 11s. Does this make me a great person? No, I did it for ME and had a great time after the first difficult stages. Did I look down on the people who moan about fat people but who were now bigger than me? No, I have a life. I can guarantee a good 80% of obese people have depression or similar. It's not really the food they like it's the food filing the empty hole in their lives. An empty hole often created after years of being dragged down by bullies such as those who belittle fat people. I should know as I was one of those depressed comfort eaters. Leave the fat shaming to doctors who will usually put it in a slightly more positive and less self interested manner.

You don’t read this website much if you think there’s no bitterness and hatred towards drinkers.

fr336

ampleforth wrote: »

I believe that a strong will can lead to weight improvements. I hope this statement does not offend anybody.

What I do think is absolutely necessary is that one has to cook at home as all that processed stuff and the eating out do you no good. But, luckily, the second option is now almost taken away (for now at least). The first however has probably worsened --- take-outs are all around us... and we all love the free extras that come with extra large orders...

Processed food is obviously hugely unhealthy but if you want to lose weight it's more about how much you eat - just have a breakfast, lunch and dinner and healthy snacks. Now the meals may still be destroying your insides if they're mainly processed, but you will still lose weight. A big obstacle to weight loss is all the snacks throughout the day - chocolate bar here, some crisps there, bit of coca cola with it (and no I don't drink the diet coke crap, the fat shamers fool themselves diet drinks are okay they're not)

fr336

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You don’t read this website much if you think there’s no bitterness and hatred towards drinkers.

Made me laugh

fr336

fr336 wrote: »

Do you not want mental health dealt with? If all mental health was dealt with then I suspect we would have less obesity, less crime, more productivity, hell you might even have less taxes Reginald!

Mental health is a new catch-all for just about everything and the new fad for B listers to drone on about to try and stay relevant. In reality less than 5% would be real and most of the rest could be sorted with “cop yourself on to feck”.

I don’t want to go to work - mental health.
I’m fat - mental health.
I can’t sleep - mental health.
I had two pints in the one day - mental health.
I’m bored on lockdown - mental health.

Hogwash.

John_Rambo

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Large people can’t really walk in public because of attitudes towards them so you need the money and space for home walking equipment. And anyway, walking when you’re not going anywhere is a pain in the hole.

Anyway, the virus is already here to it’s basically too late for anyone to be starting now. If you’d a couple of years heads up it was coming then maybe.

That's just terrible, I wouldn't have believed you until I got involved in another thread about running and jogging where one "athlete" had a serious attitude, calling new-to-jogging people that are taking these weird times to get fitter "Fatties". A quick search reveals numerous posts slagging off and slating overweigh people.

It was only one person, but I guess one sneer or comment, even a look from just a look from a person could make one throw their hat at it. I hope you stay safe and manage to find and exercise you like.

(I've also recently being working with an obese client and the last thing I can call her is lazy, her work rate, skills and ability to make money are unbelievable)

JustAThought

Wibbs wrote: »

Smokers are much less likely to get the virus and less likely to need hospital treatment if they do. There are a number of current studies looking into the why's of it. Whereas being obese carries a very high risk of serious illness from Coivd19. So there's that. Though people do love simplistic answers to complex questions, especially if it aligns with what they already believe.

Smoking causes cancer which puts huge cost pressure on the health system -it also causes passive smoking cancer.By all means smoke yourself to death but leave my health alone. Its quite simple.

NSAman

John_Rambo wrote: »

(I've also recently being working with an obese client and the last thing I can call her is lazy, her work rate, skills and ability to make money are unbelievable)

But she is lazy when it comes to herself! It is a vicious cycle. Making money = taking control.

As someone who is not lazy but let myself go due to not having confidence in my abilities and just being downright lazy when it came to looking after myself instead of everyone else.. I can understand where she is coming from.

The problem is, as I see it from my own personal experience, you look after everyone else but yourself. You get bigger and then making money is the priority to make sure everyone else knows you are good at that.

What about looking after yourself first for a change, the money will still be there. That is the hard part!!

I do not know if your client has family or children. That for me was the turning point. Knowing that if I kept going on the path that I was on, the kids would be financially secure, but they would be without their dad.

Sometimes, money is not everything. For me, it was a walk with the kids who were enjoying themselves immensely and all I could do was huff and puff and hated it. I was SO unfit and so unhealthy. I just wanted to be part of their happiness and not someone who hated going out to walk.

Your client may be a wealthy individual, not afraid of work but she may also be unhappy and needs a kick in the arse to see that money does not buy happiness and health.

rubadub

I remember always hearing about "ah, sure the whole Irish rugby team would be called obese due to their muscles", so a few years ago I checked it out, and only about 2 would have been deemed obese, the weights & heights were published. And those who were obese were absolutely "overfat".

Now of course if they had their muscle mass accounted for and went for a bodyfat measurement they might not be in a high warning category like a "regular obese" person might be, but they were most certainly carrying too much fat. Overfat is a term I have heard which is more descriptive of what the issue is.

Sage Prickly Pub wrote: »

Simple solution is to start banning sugar as an additive to processed foods

How do you legally define processed food, and how do you legally define sugar?

Do you consider honey to be "sugar", it actually has very little nutritional value. What about maltose, glucose, malt sugar. All these can appear on cereals as a sneaky way to make it appear to the layperson that sugar is far from being the highest or second highest ingredient.

Here is one

"Processed food" includes food that has been cooked, canned, frozen, packaged or changed in nutritional composition with fortifying, preserving or preparing in different ways.Any time we cook, bake or prepare food, we're processing food

So ban the vast majority of bread? or try and make them change. Would restaurants be included?

These pork chops are processed and contain added sugar/glucose.

https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=276352903

Do you include drinks as "food"?

And then are things like grape juice at 14-16% natural sugar allowed off scot free, while 10.5% sugar coke is banned.

CivilCybil

As a matter of interest, would people be happy to see more investment in preventing and treating obesity? Including things like free counseling, free cooking and nutrition classes for disadvantaged areas, treatment centers, more bariatric surgeries being done etc? With taxpayer money.

I see someone scoffed at the idea that obesity and mental health are related but the experts would disagree. Especially when you're talking about morbidly obese people or people with bulimia or binge eating disorders.

Mad_Dave

JustAThought wrote: »

Smoking causes cancer which puts huge cost pressure on the health system

As does obesity I'm afraid, just over 1 in 20 new cancer cases are caused by excess weight.

Obesity is now the second highest cause of preventable cancers, and is the leading cause of bowel, kidney, ovarian and liver cancers.

Rates of smoking related cancers are decreasing as fewer people start and more are quitting, while obesity related cases are increasing.

(figures used are from the UK)

4068ac1elhodqr

rubadub wrote: »

How do you legally define processed food, and how do you legally define sugar?

If you have to ask such a question, then there is very little hope.
A 'legal status' isn't required, a dose of common sense however, is.

Also there is a huge difference between 'naturally occuring' sugars, and the 'additive' nature dumping of sugar to FMCGs (simply to move product off shelves faster, and create addictive habits).

Honey isn't an ideal example, but (very) small amounts the odd time, may be benefitial. It has a lower glycemic Index than other types of sugars and has been linked to health benefits like improved heart health, wound healing, and blood antioxidant status.
Raw honey is best (inc bee propolis and bee pollen) can offer anti-inflammatory, antibacterial, and anticancer properties.

Is mental health a factor in overeaters and junksters? 100%.