Refunded School voluntary contribution because of Covid19 closures

Purple Mountain

I literally paid my son's final term contribution days before school shut.
I pay per term.
No way will I follow up looking for it back.
Swings and roundabouts and all that.
We usually have an end of year fundraiser as a whole school community, that's gone now so I won't be putting my hand in my pocket to support that but equally the school is down that revenue.
Wouldn't look for it back anyway. It is what it is.

nthclare

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yep and the budget they get isn't enough to cover the bills unfortunately. The voluntary contributions also cover things like toilet rolls and soap.

I know you mean well, and I think we're being pissed on and told it's raining by the system.

My lad burnt his school books up the land there the other day, it was symbolic to him to make a Wickerman like structure and burn the lot of it.. and take a picture of it...
No animals were harmed in the production..

He was never great at school and the system is ****e for kid's who are more practical rather than academic...

It was a proud moment for me to see it all going up in smoke,and a relief to him.

He's quite intelligent but he didn't fit into the curriculum and the new ways they're being thought to divide and multiply..

I remember doing math's homework with him year's ago and we were both on different planet's, because they fcked it up along the way...it's not simple or practical anymore

Ubbquittious

I remember during the heady days of the celtic tiger the primary school I went to sent a letter to all their past pupils looking for donations for some extension they were building or goodies to fill said extension with. On the letter it stated

No donations under €250 will be accepted.


The utter cheek of the fcukers

rainbowtrout

Ubbquittious wrote: »

2 toilet rolls, 2 bars of soap and the rest of it is spent on posh biscuits, comfier office chairs and high end Apple laptops for the teachers. Probably a few posh dinners for the teachers and board of management throughout the year as well

We pay for our own tea and biscuits. Nothing is supplied. As for the rest......:rolleyes:

nthclare wrote: »

I know you mean well, and I think we're being pissed on and told it's raining by the system.

My lad burnt his school books up the land there the other day, it was symbolic to him to make a Wickerman like structure and burn the lot of it.. and take a picture of it...
No animals were harmed in the production..

He was never great at school and the system is ****e for kid's who are more practical rather than academic...

I don't see what burning his books has got to do with what is effectively fundraising to keep the lights on, but if you talk to teachers you'll find that most buy stuff for their classrooms out of their own pocket, we don't get free tea and biscuits etc at work, we pay for them ourselves, and the budget that the school gets isn't anywhere near enough to cover the basics which is why schools do so many fundraisers. There are 35 classrooms in my school, each has at least 2 radiators, add in a staffroom, offices, communal areas and corridors and I'd estimate that there are 90 radiators in the building. Compare that with an average home which has maybe 9 or 10 and considering the heating bill for the year.

I don't agree with some of the methods being used in primary school at all l (I'm a secondary teacher), nor do kids who are practical get the easiest time in secondary school, there is huge scope to change and improve this area. Probably won't happen any time soon though.

Muahahaha

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There can be confusion between a “ voluntary contribution “ and certain expenses.
In primary school , photocopying, printing, art supplies , standardized tests etc. aren’t optional - they need to be paid, in the same way as books .
The “ voluntary contributions “ are an extra charge which may go to pay for electricity, heating, lighting and cleaning supplies .

I think ultimately it is a political problem. Central government deliberately under funds the school system so principals are left with little option but to fundraise through 'voluntary contributions'. They were £20 when I went to school and it was controversial back then so can only imagine it is more so now that it is 300 euro. The more parents pay the less Government have to fund education.

nthclare

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think ultimately it is a political problem. Central government deliberately under funds the school system so principals are left with little option but to fundraise through 'voluntary contributions'. They were £20 when I went to school and it was controversial back then so can only imagine it is more so now that it is 300 euro. The more parents pay the less Government have to fund education.

I read a lot of old book's and am interested in our heritage, history and culture.

The schools are probably too big now and I suppose for a young person to get a job in a school as a teacher such as one of those small schools you'll see dotted around the coastlines of Clare and Kerry. Must be a dream come true, imagine looking after a small amount of rural kid's , and being able to see them from infants up until 6th class.

I know a few teacher's along the coast, you'd meet them surfing on warm spring and summer evening's after work and they're in the zone. Hardly any stress, fresh air and as one guy tells me he came from a city and applied for a rural teaching position.

It's like being in Ryan's daughter, teaching good kids, able to walk down to the beach and forage around rock pools now and again...

Do they still do nature walks. My favourite part of the week in the early 80's out amongst the trees and shrubs, I'm in North Clare myself, but grew up on the banks of the Shannon Estuary,so my primary school was a 5 minute walk from the mudflats...

It must be difficult in an urban school that's for sure..

There's less over head's in rural areas and probably a lot of old money in the sticks..

JustAThought

I know one of the local schools pre-lockdown had every child buy and bring in a washbag with alcohol hand sanatiser ,squirty soap and their own hand towel in it. Expensive business - and Incan’t imagine the schools win’t be doing that if/when they re-open.

Regarding the original OP thou I probably wouldn’t ask he does have a point - particularly as the schools are now shut and should not be incurring those additional costs - photocopying/artwork/light/heat/third term bulk toiletrolls etc. A 1/3 credit rollover to the next year or refund would probably be appreciated by many.

Much as in the same way I don’t understand how two of the schools locally manage to have left on the major corridor lights to entire floors ON. Surely someone in ‘authority’ should have noticed by now or should be in charge of flicking the master switch to off when they leave the building - for the next 6 months. I wonder is their heat on too?

ILoveYourVibes

nthclare wrote: »

There's a few in Clare whom I'm told can manage their budget's ok.

But if you make account of all the photocopying distribution your kid gets throughout the year, it'll more than likely add up.to 30 euro's.

Where's the rest being spent ?

Oh we have to pay 50 euro on top of the contribution for that. There were other extras too.

If you wanted to take french for example another 150 euro. Mine was a state run public secondary.

We had no science labs or equipment. No sports grounds. The school entrance opened up onto a high street. It was not a suitable building for a school. And the classes were HUGE.

jimmycrackcorm

The thing I don't get about the voluntary contributions is, there is no accountability for where or what it gets spent on

SouthWesterly

We have a very active PA who do a lot of fundraising for the school.

This is it

nthclare wrote: »

I read a lot of old book's and am interested in our heritage, history and culture.

The schools are probably too big now and I suppose for a young person to get a job in a school as a teacher such as one of those small schools you'll see dotted around the coastlines of Clare and Kerry. Must be a dream come true, imagine looking after a small amount of rural kid's , and being able to see them from infants up until 6th class.

I know a few teacher's along the coast, you'd meet them surfing on warm spring and summer evening's after work and they're in the zone. Hardly any stress, fresh air and as one guy tells me he came from a city and applied for a rural teaching position.

It's like being in Ryan's daughter, teaching good kids, able to walk down to the beach and forage around rock pools now and again...

Do they still do nature walks. My favourite part of the week in the early 80's out amongst the trees and shrubs, I'm in North Clare myself, but grew up on the banks of the Shannon Estuary,so my primary school was a 5 minute walk from the mudflats...

It must be difficult in an urban school that's for sure..

There's less over head's in rural areas and probably a lot of old money in the sticks..

My son is in a rural school, mixed classes for most years, 5 teachers and just over 100 students. They still need voluntary contributions to keep them going. I'm on the PA and it's a constant battle to raise money for things like buses for school trips, external doors because the ones in place are falling apart, basic maths supplies, under sink heaters so there's sufficient warm water.

Schools are underfunded and while not everyone can contribute, I've no issue contributing myself for the good of my kids education.

JimmyVik

nthclare wrote: »

There's a few in Clare whom I'm told can manage their budget's ok.

But if you make account of all the photocopying distribution your kid gets throughout the year, it'll more than likely add up.to 30 euro's.

Where's the rest being spent ?

Toilet roll apparently Wonder how much toilet roll theyve used in the schools since March.
Ours is primary school and its €320 per year.
Now they did sent me back €160 this year, so I cant complain this year.
But it better not increase next year. Or it will be voluntary.



I see its about 50/50 in here, with odd you are a scabby fcuker thrown in for good measure, which are eerily similar to the tactics the schools use to get it.

But I cant be the only person who objects to paying for education twice.
I already pay enough tax thankyou. And what I pay in taxes surely already covers toilet roll for the kids.

JimmyVik

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I remember during the heady days of the celtic tiger the primary school I went to sent a letter to all their past pupils looking for donations for some extension they were building or goodies to fill said extension with. On the letter it stated

No donations under €250 will be accepted.

The utter cheek of the fcukers

I get a letter like that from UCD every year.

JimmyVik

rainbowtrout wrote: »

We pay for our own tea and biscuits. Nothing is supplied. As for the rest......:rolleyes:

You would think you got nothing from the us.

What about your parking space, the building you work in. The heating to keep you warm in the winter. Your staff room. Furniture. Your salary. And lets not forget, toilet roll.



I was all for the teachers and supported them to the last in other threads I posted in, but I gotta say im turning.


I pay twice for the school. Once out of my taxes and once out of the voluntary contribution. Now I am happy enough to pay it up to now, but dont start taking the P and trying to justify it.

This is it

JimmyVik wrote: »

You would think you got nothing from the us.

What about your parking space, the building you work in. The heating to keep you warm in the winter. Your staff room. Furniture. Your salary. And lets not forget, toilet roll.

You mean mostly the basics expected by any employee of any employer. You sound like one of these "I PAY YOUR WAGE, YOU WORK FOR ME" type, spouted to any public sector worker.

rainbowtrout

JimmyVik wrote: »

You would think you got nothing from the us.

What about your parking space, the building you work in. The heating to keep you warm in the winter. Your staff room. Furniture. Your salary. And lets not forget, toilet roll.



I was all for the teachers and supported them to the last in other threads I posted in, but I gotta say im turning.


I pay twice for the school. Once out of my taxes and once out of the voluntary contribution. Now I am happy enough to pay it up to now, but dont start taking the P and trying to justify it.

Ah, I see this is just an opportunity to bash teachers. Teachers pay taxes too. You make it sound like I should be paying for the furniture in the school myself in order to work there.

And how you've managed to decide that your support for teachers is waning because you have to pay for essentials in a school. Things that a teacher has no control over.

JimmyVik

Ive always defended teachers, but my God they are a venomous bunch on boards.
Listen to yourselves.

The pint here is that taxes pay for schools. Schools have a nice system where they are left short with the taxes and the parents have to make up the shortfall.

This is unfair dont you think.
Also If the voluntary contribution is for toilet roll and whatever else you feel like saying its for, then those costs have not been incurred since March. Well they have, but by the parent at home.
So do you really think its fair for the schools to keep that portion of the voluntary payment, when most parents are struggling at home, even having to buy their own kids toilet paper and art supplies?

Even the insurance companies are giving back money to people.
A bit of fairness is in order here.

This is it

JimmyVik wrote: »

Ive always defended teachers, but my God they are a venomous bunch on boards.
Listen to yourselves.

The pint here is that taxes pay for schools. Schools have a nice system where they are left short with the taxes and the parents have to make up the shortfall.

This is unfair dont you think.
Also If the voluntary contribution is for toilet roll and whatever else you feel like saying its for, then those costs have not been incurred since March. Well they have, but by the parent at home.
So do you really think its fair for the schools to keep that portion of the voluntary payment, when most parents are struggling at home, even having to buy their own kids toilet paper and art supplies?

Even the insurance companies are giving back money to people.
A bit of fairness is in order here.

A nice system? They're left short and have to make it up in some way or kids have to go without. Constant begging from the local community is not "a nice system". This isn't the school or teachers fault, it's Joe McHugh and those before him.

If you need the money, request a partial refund.

You're making this about teachers when it is them who often have to dip into their own pockets to pay for supplies for someone else's kids, never mind their own. They refuse to do that and your child goes without, that's the bottom line. "Voluntary" contributions are not just wanted, they're essential to the running of most schools I would think, which is unfortunate.

rainbowtrout

JimmyVik wrote: »

Ive always defended teachers, but my God they are a venomous bunch on boards.
Listen to yourselves.

The pint here is that taxes pay for schools. Schools have a nice system where they are left short with the taxes and the parents have to make up the shortfall.

This is unfair dont you think.
Also If the voluntary contribution is for toilet roll and whatever else you feel like saying its for, then those costs have not been incurred since March. Well they have, but by the parent at home.
So do you really think its fair for the schools to keep that portion of the voluntary payment, when most parents are struggling at home, even having to buy their own kids toilet paper and art supplies?

Even the insurance companies are giving back money to people.
A bit of fairness is in order here.

No teacher said it was fair, they all just told you what it was used for. That's not suggesting that it was fair at all.

As was said to you on the other thread, why don't you lobby your local TDs and ask them for increased budgets for schools to pay for essentials?

It was also pointed out to you that a school might give a refund now for the last part of this school year but there will be increased costs next year for hand sanitizer, soap, cleaning products, don't expect that costs will go down, because they won't. Again, all of this is beyond teachers control.

JimmyVik

This is it wrote: »

If you need the money, request a partial refund.

See., There is the problem.
Same old single people out tactics that they use to extract the money through embarrassment of parents and children.


Do you seriously see nothing wrong with this carry on?

This is it

JimmyVik wrote: »

See., There is the problem.
Same old single people out tactics that they use to extract the money through embarrassment of parents and children.


Do you seriously see nothing wrong with this carry on?

I didn't say I see no issue with it. My issue is with the Dept of Education and the Minister for Education, not the teachers and schools that are left begging for money because of them.

JimmyVik

This is it wrote: »

I didn't say I see no issue with it. My issue is with the Dept of Education and the Minister for Education, not the teachers and schools that are left begging for money because of them.

Good. We are on the same page then. Its not right and should be fixed.

This is it

JimmyVik wrote: »

Good. We are on the same page then. Its not right and should be fixed.

Going by your previous posts, we're not even in the same book.

nthclare

Maybe if teacher's engaged in Summer camp's over the summer and do biodiversity and conservation projects like a one week environmental course for the kid's who are interested in that kind of thing.

Then get their two weeks holidays like everyone else.

Isn't that a good idea ???

JustAThought

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No teacher said it was fair, they all just told you what it was used for. That's not suggesting that it was fair at all. ..

It was also pointed out to you that a school might give a refund now for the last part of this school year but there will be increased costs next year for hand sanitizer, soap, cleaning products, don't expect that costs will go down, because they won't. Again, all of this is beyond teachers control.

One of My local schools simply pushed that responsibility back onto the individual paremts -each child was to bring in a washbag in with towel, squirty soap, & hand sanatiser. Far easier than asking a voluntary committee to take time from their families to fundraise for it, and a reasonable request.

As said I would really expect the unions and principles to be negotiating for more funding for items needed like light and LX -I remember always layering up with thermals in school in the winter as the heat was turned off after lunchtime & I also remember the teachers making us push back our desks & do running on the spot or jumping jacks to warm us up as we went blue with cold! Then the next doors class would complain in about the noise! I think we can all see now the increase in our heat bills and how cold it gets when you are stuck indoors all day - no surprises that sucessive governmnents fed by the cohorts of civil servants after 40 or 50 years still will not fund schools enough to meet their basic overheads and running costs.Which is really a disgrace.

Abel Ruiz

rainbowtrout wrote: »

OP got that answer in the education forum but wasn’t happy that he was told that schools will have extra running costs and hopes the people in this forum will support his scabbiness

TheValeyard wrote: »

So OP,

That's two threads not going your way. How's that working out?

How about just win the debate instead of getting the sly digs in???
Why are you being dicks?

Just prove how the op is wrong and move on. Get down off the hobby horse ffs

FishOnABike

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I remember during the heady days of the celtic tiger the primary school I went to sent a letter to all their past pupils looking for donations for some extension they were building or goodies to fill said extension with. On the letter it stated

No donations under €250 will be accepted.


The utter cheek of the fcukers

I think that's probably because on donations €250 and over they can also claim the tax that would have been paid so €250 donation becomes €250 + €100 = €350 in their coffers.

If someone donated €249 they couldn't claim the tax and it would just be the €249 donated in their coffers.

gnf_ireland

This is it wrote: »

A nice system? They're left short and have to make it up in some way or kids have to go without. Constant begging from the local community is not "a nice system". This isn't the school or teachers fault, it's Joe McHugh and those before him.

If you need the money, request a partial refund.

You're making this about teachers when it is them who often have to dip into their own pockets to pay for supplies for someone else's kids, never mind their own. They refuse to do that and your child goes without, that's the bottom line. "Voluntary" contributions are not just wanted, they're essential to the running of most schools I would think, which is unfortunate.

To be fair to teachers here, the issue is the school system. The funding for schools is well documented, and if you are interested anyone can see how much funding a school gets from the Department each year per child and the different categories. Its not exactly a state secret. Is this enough to run the school day to day - absolutely not. Does it cover basic necessities including chalk, toilet paper, insurance, heating, broadband, electricity etc - absolutely not. If you want to know where the money is spent at your school - attend the meeting where the accounts are discussed

So who makes up the short fall - well its down to the parents or community through fundraising and/or voluntary contributions. I am sure the teachers have no interest in being in this set-up either. Schools are drastically underfunded in Ireland, and this does need to change. But too many in Ireland are not willing to rock the status quo.

The harsh reality is this funding will need to increase come September, assuming they find a way to go back at all. Who will pay for all the new 'hot water' (where ever it will come from) or the additional soap/hand sanitizer gel etc. It will fall back on the parents to do so, as the Department will be found lacking again.

Yes, if someone needs a partial refund of a contribution paid, then by all means ask the school for it. I would not expect any school to volunteer it back, not knowing what is ahead of them come September.


As for teachers, they also get a flat tax credit of 600 euro per year (without receipts) for expenses paid in the classroom from their own pockets. Some will spend this and lots more, some will spend this and no more and some will not spend a penny of it. If we are talking about things, lets be transparent and stop trying to make out every teacher is a martyr - yes some are, but many others are not.

gnf_ireland

FishOnABike wrote: »

I think that's probably because on donations €250 and over they can also claim the tax that would have been paid so €250 donation becomes €250 + €100 = €350 in their coffers.

If someone donated €249 they couldn't claim the tax and it would just be the €249 donated in their coffers.

We get this every year at our school - but mainly around the fact they are a registered charity and that donations 250 or greater can receive a tax credit. But I can assure you they don't turn down any less if that is all that is on offer !!

They also remind everyone that some employers match charitable donations and they would classify as a charity in that case.

Personally, I think its absolutely shocking that any school (mostly owned by a 3rd party organisation - church) should be set up as a charity and have to recover the shortfall in funds provided. In most cases the church owns the land and buildings - they need to either step up their financial support for schools or hand them over to the state.
Every school should have been handed over to the state as part of the settlement for the institutional abuse scandal.

anewme

JimmyVik wrote: »

You would think you got nothing from the us.

What about your parking space, the building you work in. The heating to keep you warm in the winter. Your staff room. Furniture. Your salary. And lets not forget, toilet roll.



I was all for the teachers and supported them to the last in other threads I posted in, but I gotta say im turning.


I pay twice for the school. Once out of my taxes and once out of the voluntary contribution. Now I am happy enough to pay it up to now, but dont start taking the P and trying to justify it.

Probably one ouf the nastiest posts I've read on boards in a while. Begrudging a worker heating, toilet roll, furniture to do their job and somewhere to have their lunch.

Reads like something out of Oliver Twist. That people should beg for working conditions.

The real reasons for Op starting two threads are summed up in that one post.

One of those people who thinks their tax pays for EVERYTHING....