The Soulsborne combat debate

Greyfox

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

As I said earlier in the thread, this is a subject thing it’ll be impossible to agree on. I know a From game will have me hooked until I beat it - they’re some of the only games I will reliably play through in a week or two without getting distracted or bored. I found FF7 Remake a chore to finish (and possibly wouldn’t have had the world not been in lockdown), but I put roughly the same amount of time into Sekiro and barely felt the hours pass. I’m pretty sure I finished Dark Souls in a week or two despite being someone who’d 95% of the time try to stick to two hours or so of gaming a day (and not every day). When a Soulsborne game, it’s futile to pretend I’ll be doing much else with my downtime until the credits roll.

I’ve been playing The Witcher 3 again a bit in the past few months, and I think it’s a really great game in lots of respects. But I find the moment to moment traversal of the world and combat pretty dull if I’m being frank. I think the game has more than enough to keep me going beyond that, don’t get me wrong. But again I wouldn’t criticise any aspect of DS or its brethren like that - I find the whole gameplay loop immensely engaging and intensive for long periods of times in ways beyond the vast majority of even really, really good games. Again, I can only speak for myself in this regard

Everyone likes different things, for me I found the Witcher 3 and FF7 remake so good that it was worth playing them again in new game plus/hard mode. With From games it can be hard for people to break away from the fact that they play quite differently to what's expected in modern games as truth be told a lot of people enjoy playing games where there character is an overpowered bad ass who only has to take a few steps back when they die.

TitianGerm

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/gvcbdn/yeah_boi_when_the_quarantine_started_i_started/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Edit: playing through DS1 now and I'm down in a swamp below Blightown. I've killed Tharus Demon, Capra Demon, Gargoyles and Gaping Dragon, also parried an NPC invader to death in the Depths. So far I've being dodging enemies very little and parrying 90% of the time (after Sekiro it seems pretty easy to do after never quite getting it on previous false starts).

I had being using the Drake Sword and Uchigatana but both need to be repaired so now I'm using a Crystal Sword I bought in the Depths, a halbard and the spider shield. I found a Shadow set of armour in Blightown so that's my armour for the moment. I've upgraded the Estus Flask to +1.

I think my weapons are a bit underpowered now though. It takes me 5 riptous (where you stick the sword in them after a successful parry, not sure what it's called or how to spell it) to kill the fat guys at the top of Blightown.

Question is should I have found better armour or upgraded my weapons by now? I haven't been back to Andre since I first met him.

Potential-Monke

Deleted User wrote: »

Just had a quick look at my hours on steam

DS1 - 21 hours
DS2 - 37 hours
DS3 - 27 hours

Didn't finish any of them.

How good can a game be if it can't hold my attention till the end

Boom! Proof that it doesn't matter if you spend 3 or 30 hours, if you don't like it, you don't like it!

Greyfox wrote: »

E...a lot of people enjoy playing games where there character is an overpowered bad ass who only has to take a few steps back when they die.

I'm one of those. Life is crap enough that I don't need games to constantly make me feel crap too. I love getting OP'd in single player games. To me that's the point, to become the biggest badass in the game. Even some games where you don't even level up your character do this, ie: Vice City, possibly the reason why I think Vice City is the best GTA.

I do understand people love the (i'm just gonna call it) difficulty of the Soulborne games, it's just not for me. Not because I'm bad at gaming, simply just not for me.

Retr0gamer

Which is all fair enough. Just don't call them crap games. Us soulsborne lovers feel personally attacked when you do.

nix

Yeah call us crazy, but we like a challenge in our games :pac:

Zero-Cool

I'll say one thing, i thought Souls had the best bosses of any game but Astro Bot is giving it a run for it's money. Obviously on the easier side but goddamn fun!

Retr0gamer

That's one of the things I love about these games. We had years of God awful bosses for companies other than Konami and Capcom and then the utter quagmire of awful bosses that was mgs4. People have out about bosses being an awful idea. But they werent. Awful bosses are just awful. Stuff like uncharted 2 and deus ex didn't help. It was great to finally play a game with amazing boss design.

Even better was it lead to more games getting better designed bosses.

Doctor Nick

TitianGerm wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/gvcbdn/yeah_boi_when_the_quarantine_started_i_started/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Edit: playing through DS1 now and I'm down in a swamp below Blightown. I've killed Tharus Demon, Capra Demon, Gargoyles and Gaping Dragon, also parried an NPC invader to death in the Depths. So far I've being dodging enemies very little and parrying 90% of the time (after Sekiro it seems pretty easy to do after never quite getting it on previous false starts).

I had being using the Drake Sword and Uchigatana but both need to be repaired so now I'm using a Crystal Sword I bought in the Depths, a halbard and the spider shield. I found a Shadow set of armour in Blightown so that's my armour for the moment. I've upgraded the Estus Flask to +1.

I think my weapons are a bit underpowered now though. It takes me 5 riptous (where you stick the sword in them after a successful parry, not sure what it's called or how to spell it) to kill the fat guys at the top of Blightown.

Question is should I have found better armour or upgraded my weapons by now? I haven't been back to Andre since I first met him.

You could have a +9 weapon at this stage if you found the large ember in the depths. Yes, you should have upgraded your weapon though well done getting this far without doing so.

gimli2112

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Boom! Proof that it doesn't matter if you spend 3 or 30 hours, if you don't like it, you don't like it!

This is not something I'm proud to admit but I never finished RE2 remake and I'm struggling to close out the FF7 remake. I left Doom 2016 for a year before I went back to complete it. All of these are great games imo and games, I quite like just something better came along and I didn't / don't have the same enthusiasm for them.


Never had that problem with Bloodborne but again that's a personal thing

TitianGerm

Doctor Nick wrote: »

You could have a +9 weapon at this stage if you found the large ember in the depths. Yes, you should have upgraded your weapon though well done getting this far without doing so.

I have 5 shards, one large one and two twinkling. I think I have an ember as well but not sure.

It was a long walk back to Andre so I just kept going rather than turn around.

Bloody fire dogs in Blightown took four or five pokes with the Halberd to kill :pac:

What weapons are worth upgrading? I'm a Pyromancer but have 17 points in Strength, Dex and Stamina and 15 or 16 in Vitality.

Doctor Nick

TitianGerm wrote: »

I have 5 shards, one large one and two twinkling. I think I have an ember as well but not sure.

It was a long walk back to Andre so I just kept going rather than turn around.

Bloody fire dogs in Blightown took four or five pokes with the Halberd to kill :pac:

What weapons are worth upgrading? I'm a Pyromancer but have 17 points in Strength, Dex and Stamina and 15 or 16 in Vitality.

Halberd is decent. Claymore is a good two handed weapon and the Zweihander. Both great swords. My favourite weapon is probably the Great Club. All weapons are viable in the game, up to you which moveset you prefer . The Drake Sword becomes pretty bad once you get to Sens so consider something else.

You can upgrade weapons to +5 without the large ember. You need that to upgrade to +9 then need the very large ember to go to +15.

TitianGerm

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Halberd is decent. Claymore is a good two handed weapon and the Zweihander. Both great swords. My favourite weapon is probably the Great Club. All weapons are viable in the game, up to you which moveset you prefer . The Drake Sword becomes pretty bad once you get to Sens so consider something else.

You can upgrade weapons to +5 without the large ember. You need that to upgrade to +9 then need the very large ember to go to +15.

Thanks for the help. I might stick with the Drake Sword for the moment if I get back to Andre to have it repaired.

I have a Zweihander and an Iaito (found it on a roof near the bonfire in Blightown) but don't have the stats to use them yet so haven't bothered with them. My original plan was to upgrade the Uchigatana so might stick with that.

McFly85

Well after all the debate, I decided to start Bloodborne on Monday, and so far, I'm enjoying it immensely. There has been plenty of death but certainly the first area is small enough that it doesn't take too long to get back to where you were, but I like the way the game encourages exploration for shortcuts - going through that bonfire continuously had started to grate - was delighted this morning when I unlocked the shortcut to the bridge and then took down the Cleric Beast(found this fairly handy btw, but I had leveled up some stats which I would say most players would have not had the chance to at that stage).

Also the combat feels very familiar, which helps, and I haven't played another souls game apart from a small bit of Sekiro. Reminded of God of War, so maybe going through that first had my unwittingly train for souls games:)

Anyway, back to Yharnam, the rest of the backlog might have to wait a while!

gimli2112

If this thread has inspired just one more hunter to take up the hunt it has served it's purpose. A triumph of good over evil.

TitianGerm

McFly85 wrote: »

Well after all the debate, I decided to start Bloodborne on Monday, and so far, I'm enjoying it immensely. There has been plenty of death but certainly the first area is small enough that it doesn't take too long to get back to where you were, but I like the way the game encourages exploration for shortcuts - going through that bonfire continuously had started to grate - was delighted this morning when I unlocked the shortcut to the bridge and then took down the Cleric Beast(found this fairly handy btw, but I had leveled up some stats which I would say most players would have not had the chance to at that stage).

Also the combat feels very familiar, which helps, and I haven't played another souls game apart from a small bit of Sekiro. Reminded of God of War, so maybe going through that first had my unwittingly train for souls games:)

Anyway, back to Yharnam, the rest of the backlog might have to wait a while!

If you start with the Saw Cleaver then the Cleric Beast is a bit easier because beast enemies are weak to serrated weapons.

Dave0301

They are beautifully made games that can be tackled in different ways due to character design etc.

The challenge of the games is what I find most appealing. Yes it can be frustrating at times, but I find the reward in overcoming the challenge worth it. Even on NG+ playthroughs you can be put away by the minions if you don't pay attention. In regards to respawning enemies, yes it can be annoying, but the majority of the time there are shortcuts to be unlocked that can help overcome this.

Contrast it to say FF7R which I loved, it wasn't challenging to play, and apart from a few of the later bosses on Hard mode I got through it without needing to work for it.

McFly85

TitianGerm wrote: »

If you start with the Saw Cleaver then the Cleric Beast is a bit easier because beast enemies are weak to serrated weapons.

Nope, Axe and Pistol(I would say the Axe is helping with my God of War comparison), and it was really a case of trying to stay behind him to get hits in, got caught out a few times but the damage dealt was never too bad.

I will say I am next to useless with the pistol, and I really want to start practising my parrying because I am not sure just bashing everything in with the Axe will get me through the game!

nix

McFly85 wrote: »

I will say I am next to useless with the pistol, and I really want to start practising my parrying because I am not sure just bashing everything in with the Axe will get me through the game!

It worked for me on my first play through

But eh the Ogres are good to practice on, and for farming blood vials, small mobs that die quick aint worth parrying.

gimli2112

Axe is a great weapon and is effective throughout. I was the same with the pistol and while I never got great with it was still able to make a build around parrying. Did a lot of farming in dungeons parrying sub-bosses.

Zero-Cool

If anyone is looking to give Souls a go, Dark Souls 3 is on sale on PSN today for 10 euro or 14 for the deluxe which is an absolute bargain. Great game to get your feet wet, never mind the number.

gimli2112

Saw a post on Reddit the other day, Guy could never get past the first boss, gave up. Tried it again during lockdown and beat it. He was so happy. Probably right up to the point he meets the second boss

TitianGerm

gimli2112 wrote: »

Saw a post on Reddit the other day, Guy could never get past the first boss, gave up. Tried it again during lockdown and beat it. He was so happy. Probably right up to the point he meets the second boss

Is that the one I posted above Gimli?

gimli2112

TitianGerm wrote: »

Is that the one I posted above Gimli?

yeah must have been, I'd forgotten where I'd seen it

TitianGerm

gimli2112 wrote: »

yeah must have been, I'd forgotten where I'd seen it

Fair play to him sticking it out. Must have felt great when he finally beat him.

Doctor Nick

Just remembered my first time playing Bloodborne. It took me (no joke) hours to clear the first area of enemies. Just kept dying. When I eventually killed everyone I ran back to the lamp thinking it was a checkpoint like any other game. Warped to Hunters dream thinking it would save my progress. My heart sank when everybody was back. I almost cried haha. I think that was when I traded it in. Bought it again a few weeks later.

petes

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Just remembered my first time playing Bloodborne. It took me (no joke) hours to clear the first area of enemies. Just kept dying. When I eventually killed everyone I ran back to the lamp thinking it was a checkpoint like any other game. Warped to Hunters dream thinking it would save my progress. My heart sank when everybody was back. I almost cried haha. I think that was when I traded it in. Bought it again a few weeks later.

I was the same at the start (apart from the checkpoint part :pac:).

Was my first Soulsbourne experience and said nope, not for me.
But I found myself going back to it. As I mentioned previously I enjoy the exploration parts, seeing what's next etc.

Beating some of the bosses gave me enormous satisfaction though and a fairly elevated heart rate,

Have a few other games to in the backlog but discussions like this always make me play them again!

Doctor Nick

petes wrote: »

I was the same at the start (apart from the checkpoint part :pac:).

Was my first Soulsbourne experience and said nope, not for me.
But I found myself going back to it. As I mentioned previously I enjoy the exploration parts, seeing what's next etc.

Beating some of the bosses gave me enormous satisfaction though and a fairly elevated heart rate,

Have a few other games to in the backlog but discussions like this always make me play them again!

I know the feeling man. It was the atmosphere in Bloodborne that brought me back. After trading it I spent the next few weeks thinking about before buying again. Couldn't believe it when I got to my first ending.

I'm currently playing The Witcher 3 which I was never able to get into before. This is the third time I bought it. I am enjoying it more but find the combat is terrible compared to the Souls games.

I also have a SL1 character in DS1 on the go. Up to Ornstein and Smough. It's mad to think I went from the Bloodborne experience I just mentioned to half way through DS1 at SL1. Never would have thought it possible.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

Thanks for the help. I might stick with the Drake Sword for the moment if I get back to Andre to have it repaired.

I have a Zweihander and an Iaito (found it on a roof near the bonfire in Blightown) but don't have the stats to use them yet so haven't bothered with them. My original plan was to upgrade the Uchigatana so might stick with that.

And just cleared out the swamp area. Those little mosquitoes are some pain in the hole!!

Found the giant club as well and killed everyone down there. Eventually found a second firekeepers soul and kept climbing and ended up in Valley of Drake's. Ran across a bridge to pick up a drop, went through a gate, up some stairs and was in an area below Firelink with ghosts that I was in very early in the game but left because I couldn't damage them.

I have a problem though as I went up to Firelink and the Firekeeper is gone so I can't upgrade my Estus again.

Ran down to Andre then and repaired all my weapons. Now going to sit on my upgrade materials and decide what to upgrade. At the minute I have 8 Titanite Shards, a large Titanite Shard, a Titanite Chunk, a green Titanite Shard, two twinkling shards and a dragon scale.

Doctor Nick

TitianGerm wrote: »

And just cleared out the swamp area. Those little mosquitoes are some pain in the hole!!

Found the giant club as well and killed everyone down there. Eventually found a second firekeepers soul and kept climbing and ended up in Valley of Drake's. Ran across a bridge to pick up a drop, went through a gate, up some stairs and was in an area below Firelink with ghosts that I was in very early in the game but left because I couldn't damage them.

I have a problem though as I went up to Firelink and the Firekeeper is gone so I can't upgrade my Estus again.

Ran down to Andre then and repaired all my weapons. Now going to sit on my upgrade materials and decide what to upgrade. At the minute I have 8 Titanite Shards, a large Titanite Shard, a Titanite Chunk, a green Titanite Shard, two twinkling shards and a dragon scale.

Did you beat the Boss in Blighttown!? I would buy yourself the repair box and the thing that allows you to upgrade weapons yourself, can't remember the name of it. Andre sells them.

TitianGerm

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Did you beat the Boss in Blighttown!? I would buy yourself the repair box and the thing that allows you to upgrade weapons yourself, can't remember the name of it. Andre sells them.

No didn't kill any boss in Blightown. There was a nest thing that I didn't go into that I'm assuming the boss is in but I wanted to explore up the wooden wheel before I went in there to fight the boss and that's how I ended up back at Firelink.