Waterford - Rosslare Greenway

I told ya

This piece of infrastructure should be kept and maintained as a railway.

There is a good possibility that Brexit could turn sour yet. And if it does, I would be of the view that EU26 bound exports and further afield should go direct and no through the UK. Only asking for trouble, delays, etc.

Access to Rosslare may well become critical for both road and rail.

donvito99

I told ya wrote: »

This piece of infrastructure should be kept and maintained as a railway.

There is a good possibility that Brexit could turn sour yet. And if it does, I would be of the view that EU26 bound exports and further afield should go direct and no through the UK. Only asking for trouble, delays, etc.

Access to Rosslare may well become critical for both road and rail.

If goods going direct to the continent don't require a railway at the moment, what difference is Brexit making requiring the railway to stay the way it is? If there is increased volumes going direct, that would be an issue of ferries and not railways.

L1011

I told ya wrote: »

This piece of infrastructure should be kept and maintained as a railway.

There is a good possibility that Brexit could turn sour yet. And if it does, I would be of the view that EU26 bound exports and further afield should go direct and no through the UK. Only asking for trouble, delays, etc.

Access to Rosslare may well become critical for both road and rail.

Rosslare is not a container port, and the south coasts container port is rail connected

I told ya

I know it's not a container port and the point about containers not using the railway is a valid one.

However, I still feel that this relatively short stretch of railway is a critical piece of infrastructure and should be maintained.

I appreciate that this is not a thread about Brexit, but I feel it would be best to hold onto it until matters are resolved.

It may well come to pass that Rosslare has to be developed. There was talk a few years back about relocating Dublin Port to north Co Dublin. So the idea of developing new facilities is not a new one.

If it were to come to the situation that there was a fall in traffic across the Irish Sea and an increase in traffic on non UK routes, then developing Rosslare may be on the agenda.

So until matters are resolved, as the fella says, 'you're better off having than looking for it'.

Isambard

i very much doubt there is enough room at Rosslare to build a container port. Even if there was, what would the advantage be over Dublin and Waterford? You're surely not suggesting a train running past Waterford container port to Rosslare? Building (or re-building sadly) at Cork would make more sense, or Foynes.

man98

Isambard wrote: »

i very much doubt there is enough room at Rosslare to build a container port. Even if there was, what would the advantage be over Dublin and Waterford? You're surely not suggesting a train running past Waterford container port to Rosslare? Building (or re-building sadly) at Cork would make more sense, or Foynes.

Rosslare is far better located than Belview for containers. No pilot needed, no estuary to crawl up. There isn't enough space at Rosslare for a rail integrated container port, though land could be reclaimed. Writing off the Rosslare - Waterford line now however is premature, and there may well come a day where rail freight through Rosslare is very necessary, especially as the shortage of truck drivers becomes more acute.

donvito99

man98 wrote: »

and there may well come a day where rail freight through Rosslare is very necessary, especially as the shortage of truck drivers becomes more acute.

And in that case, couldn't freight be brought in via the extant line from Dublin?

end of the road

donvito99 wrote: »

And in that case, couldn't freight be brought in via the extant line from Dublin?

it would depend on what it is and whether via dublin would be quicker for it to travel.
containers i believe are out due to clearence on the dublin line but someone will know for sure, so any containers would have to go via waterford.

Losty Dublin

Isambard wrote: »

i very much doubt there is enough room at Rosslare to build a container port.

There was plans on paper to expand Rosslare port by way of reclaiming land. Part of which is to make it able and ready to handle some container traffic. However these plans were made pre depression and have obviously slipped down the list of priorities, though they do pop up from time to time with a rail connection being mentioned albeit on a less grandiose scale.

The M11 has since had several improvements and extensions made to it along with that on the N25 and the New Ross bypass so road haulage times will be improved to any new port. It would be fair to say that the line from Connolly would probably struggle to cope with even an extra return trip a day. It's other issue of slow speeds on the line will not help things. However trains could also run via Waterford with a little investment on the South Wexford to Rosslare.

Unlikely I know but it's a possibility.

sporty56

Recent approval of development for the Port re off-shore windfarms will take a fair bit of space and this use will be for 10/15 years I'd reckon.

https://xellz.com/europort-business-park-to-handle-future-offshore-wind/

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/05/19/ireland-speeds-up-seven-offshore-wind-projects/

Isambard

man98 wrote: »

Rosslare is far better located than Belview for containers. No pilot needed, no estuary to crawl up. There isn't enough space at Rosslare for a rail integrated container port, though land could be reclaimed. Writing off the Rosslare - Waterford line now however is premature, and there may well come a day where rail freight through Rosslare is very necessary, especially as the shortage of truck drivers becomes more acute.

common sense tells me you don't build a new container port and then have trains run past Bellevue or Dublin container ports. What would be the point? You don't do that just so we can have a few more locos to spot. Foynes would make more sense

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

common sense tells me you don't build a new container port and then have trains run past Bellevue or Dublin container ports. What would be the point? You don't do that just so we can have a few more locos to spot. Foynes would make more sense

Why Foynes - hardly convenient for Europe? Why not Killybegs while you're at it.

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why Foynes - hardly convenient for Europe? Why not Killybegs while you're at it.

To be fair Port of Foynes have been calling for a rail link for years, while you know who that runs Rosslare is happy to make an existing rail link worse than useless.

Jamie2k9

The is not fully sheilved according to this:

In 2023 the line is set to expand further with the addition of a Waterford to Rosslare Greenway, which will run through Bridgetown, Wellington Bridge and Campile in Wexford before connecting with the Waterford-New Ross Greenway in Slieverue.

Cllr Michael Sheehan (Fianna Fáil), details some of the areas that will benefit from the route: “[This project] will be really important for places like Ballykinane and Campile that will follow the old railway tracks and bring a lot of life into those towns. So this is a very important project for the South East.”

https://beat102103.com/news/construction-of-waterford-new-ross-greenway-imminent/

Working class heroes

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The is not fully sheilved according to this:



https://beat102103.com/news/construction-of-waterford-new-ross-greenway-imminent/

That article states the abandonment process is complete.
It’s not.
Doesn’t say much for the rest of it. “Any day now” me arse....

Isambard

Working class heroes wrote: »

That article states the abandonment process is complete.
It’s not.
Doesn’t say much for the rest of it. “Any day now” me arse....

New Ross line this is....

Working class heroes

Isambard wrote: »

New Ross line this is....

Fair enough.
Probably belongs somewhere else so.

Isambard

Maybe the title of the thread needs reviewing as all the local Greenway's are linked in ethos even if not on the ground.

Jamie2k9

Working class heroes wrote: »

Fair enough.
Probably belongs somewhere else so.

The article covers both, so the bit I quoted was specific to Waterford-Rosslare as councillors had voted a few months ago to not proceed with this however this appears to have changed.

oceanfroggie

Del.Monte wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc1prUMDbQA

Only came across this video today. Interesting how it's not possible to leave a comment. I'd be worried for the future of the line save for the fact that Wexford County Council are even more useless than CIE and will probably never get their act together.

Unfortunately the reality is a 'greenway' will bring more profitable revenue into the local economy than a 2600 running twice a day between Wexford and Waterford. A shame to lose this iconic railway line, but unless a profitable service can be run a greenway as scenic as this will bring millions into the economy just like the ones in Westport and Dungarvan did. All year round hospitality businesses benefit hugely. Youghal middleton is a different case as one could argue there could be huge commuter traffic between Cork and Youghal, and therefore worth putting back into rail. Once track is lifted its gone for good. Our population will grow significantly and future generations will not forgive us for lifting now what could be busy commuter lines in the future.

nigra

It seems that the line is attracting some long overdue debate#

https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/reinstate-south-east-rail-network


Coming at it from a purely environmental angle, lifting trainlines to one of the busiest ports in the state doesn't exactly indicate that the 'climate emergency' we declared was anything more than virtue signalling.

purplepanda

Irish hauliers and exporters have said an alternative route to Europe must be found to avoid potentially massive queues at British ports from the beginning of January.


Just build a Greenway instead that'll sort it!


Meanwhile in the real world. :pac:


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0923/1166880-no-deal-brexit-v-coronavirus/

L1011

Rosslare is a roro port, rail freight is of no use to it.

loyatemu

nigra wrote: »

Coming at it from a purely environmental angle, lifting trainlines to one of the busiest ports in the state doesn't exactly indicate that the 'climate emergency' we declared was anything more than virtue signalling.

there's no rail freight going to the port on the existing line.
There are also bugger all foot passengers on the ferry.
If you did want to move freight through a port by rail, you'd use Dublin or Waterford which are already setup for that.

If you want to use Rosslare port as justification for reopening the line, you're also talking about completely reorganising the way that freight logistics work in Ireland.

I told ya

loyatemu wrote: »

there's no rail freight going to the port on the existing line.
There are also bugger all foot passengers on the ferry.
If you did want to move freight through a port by rail, you'd use Dublin or Waterford which are already setup for that.

If you want to use Rosslare port as justification for reopening the line, you're also talking about completely reorganising the way that freight logistics work in Ireland.

With the way Brexit is going, then that is what may well have to happen. A lot of posters on Brexit threads have stated that this is already happening.

Per the UK gov there could be 7k trucks backed up in Kent. Do you think the UK drivers will let the Irish trucks sail (pun) past on and off the ferries?

This piece of infrastructure has to be retained until we know exactly what the outcome is going to be and how we are going to import & export in the future.

Given this UK gov's respect for treaties and their general carry on, that could be a long time.

Isambard

I told ya wrote: »

With the way Brexit is going, then that is what may well have to happen. A lot of posters on Brexit threads have stated that this is already happening.

Per the UK gov there could be 7k trucks backed up in Kent. Do you think the UK drivers will let the Irish trucks sail (pun) past on and off the ferries?

This piece of infrastructure has to be retained until we know exactly what the outcome is going to be and how we are going to import & export in the future.

Given this UK gov's respect for treaties and their general carry on, that could be a long time.

how will that put traffic on to rail though? Post Brexit, there may well be more ferries direct to mainland Europe, but that won't affect the rail system. The trucks will just go a different route.

loyatemu

Brexit or no Brexit the chances of Rosslare Port being re-tooled as a freight railhead are practically nil. I know how ironic this is given who owns the port but that doesn't make it any more likely. Of all the arguments for reopening the South Wexford it's the weakest. The (also remote) prospect of rail-sail becoming a big thing again is probably more likely.

I told ya

I don't know whether Rosslare will be retooled or whether freight will reappear on the line.

That's not my point. My point is keep the line until we are 100% certain. At the moment there is no clarity on Brexit. Also, have all Irish importers/exporters finalised their arrangements post 31/12/20? Until they do, it's better to have it than to want it.

The cost of maintaining the line and bridge is small change.

IE 222

I think Rosslare would need to see Dublin port closing if it was to ever gain rail freight. Even then it would probably be easier to just keep it RO/RO and shift LO/LO to Cork and Waterford.

Del.Monte

In the real world - not the fantasy one of burning up the planet by returning to cheap mass air travel - foot passenger traffic will have to return if Ireland is to attract visitors from the Continent and Britain. I have thought for years that mass tourism is completely unsustainable anyway but that's for a different forum.