Will you fly/travel in the EU this year if it feels safe to do so? And to where?

odyssey06

faceman wrote: »

This drives me wild. Look around Europe. Many EU countries are in a better state than Ireland.

I don't think being in France is any more risk than being in Ireland.
But if you are flying there, you're not going to be able to socially distance on the plane.
Doesn't make sense if you can travel on the plane in close quarters -> but not a bus or train in Ireland or in France.
So there is a risk with flying that does not exist with a staycation.

josip

odyssey06 wrote: »

So there is a risk with flying that does not exist with a staycation.

True, but that risk does not exist for those travelling abroad by ferry.

faceman

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't think being in France is any more risk than being in Ireland.
But if you are flying there, you're not going to be able to socially distance on the plane.
Doesn't make sense if you can travel on the plane in close quarters -> but not a bus or train in Ireland or in France.
So there is a risk with flying that does not exist with a staycation.

Not true. Science already tells that pandemics and epidemics cause a shift in human hygiene and behaviour habits which aids the suppression of virus spread.

Aircraft are fitted with HEPA filtration systems and under new policies are subject to stricter daily hygiene standards.

Mask use is mandatory on most if not all airlines and inflight service is limited.

Plus someone needs to have the virus to spread it. Given the R number is 0.4-0.6 in Ireland and the daily number are very low, the chances of someone on the plane having it are also low.

Seems to me there’s more risk walking around the supermarket

odyssey06

faceman wrote: »

Not true. Science already tells that pandemics and epidemics cause a shift in human hygiene and behaviour habits which aids the suppression of virus spread.
Aircraft are fitted with HEPA filtration systems and under new policies are subject to stricter daily hygiene standards.
Mask use is mandatory on most if not all airlines and inflight service is limited.
Plus someone needs to have the virus to spread it. Given the R number is 0.4-0.6 in Ireland and the daily number are very low, the chances of someone on the plane having it are also low.
Seems to me there’s more risk walking around the supermarket

Not sure how any of what you said contradicts my point that there is a risk to flying that does not exist with a staycation.

ELM327

faceman wrote: »

Not true. Science already tells that pandemics and epidemics cause a shift in human hygiene and behaviour habits which aids the suppression of virus spread.

Aircraft are fitted with HEPA filtration systems and under new policies are subject to stricter daily hygiene standards.

Mask use is mandatory on most if not all airlines and inflight service is limited.

Plus someone needs to have the virus to spread it. Given the R number is 0.4-0.6 in Ireland and the daily number are very low, the chances of someone on the plane having it are also low.

Seems to me there’s more risk walking around the supermarket

If we've had tens of thousands of cases, and the R number is 0.4. How many people are on the flight. Include a factor of asymptomatic carriers too. Then, what is your risk of catching it, including your trip through the airport, along with your luggage


Way, way too risky to fly at the moment.

manniot2

ELM327 wrote: »

If we've had tens of thousands of cases, and the R number is 0.4. How many people are on the flight. Include a factor of asymptomatic carriers too. Then, what is your risk of catching it, including your trip through the airport, along with your luggage


Way, way too risky to fly at the moment.

Genuine question - when you say its way way too risky, do you mean for your own health or do you mean its too risky in terms of re-spreading the virus?

ELM327

manniot2 wrote: »

Genuine question - when you say its way way too risky, do you mean for your own health or do you mean its too risky in terms of re-spreading the virus?

The former predominantly, but both.

manniot2

ELM327 wrote: »

The former predominantly, but both.

Right ok. I must try re-read some info on this virus because I am completely unafraid of it based on the data I have seen, and appear to be very much in the minority in that regard. I would have zero concerns about flying - I would genuinely be more worried about the plane crashing.

odyssey06

manniot2 wrote: »

Right ok. I must try re-read some info on this virus because I am completely unafraid of it based on the data I have seen, and appear to be very much in the minority in that regard. I would have zero concerns about flying - I would genuinely be more worried about the plane crashing.

More people have died in Ireland alone from coronavirus than died in the entire world in plane crashes in last 12 months.
Maybe you're in a low risk demographic though.

faceman

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not sure how any of what you said contradicts my point that there is a risk to flying that does not exist with a staycation.

Oops my bad. I misread your post

faceman

odyssey06 wrote: »

More people have died in Ireland alone from coronavirus than died in the entire world in plane crashes in last 12 months.
Maybe you're in a low risk demographic though.

More people are dying daily from cancer at the moment in Ireland than from coronavirus

ELM327

manniot2 wrote: »

Right ok. I must try re-read some info on this virus because I am completely unafraid of it based on the data I have seen, and appear to be very much in the minority in that regard. I would have zero concerns about flying - I would genuinely be more worried about the plane crashing.

Both myself and my partner are in vulnerable groups. I'm scared to death of catching it. I only leave the house once a week for shopping.

ShineOn7

faceman wrote: »

More people are dying daily from cancer at the moment in Ireland than from coronavirus

Source?

jimmycrackcorm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Source?

NCRI and CSO publish stats. E.g. for 2014 there were 8880 cancer deaths in 2014 and I doubt that number has gone down

odyssey06

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Source?

If you average out the annual cancer deaths (9000) per day it's about 25.
Current daily average for coronavirus deaths is less than that, heading towards single digits.
* disclaimer 1: Not sure of the figures where someone passes away who had both conditions.
* disclaimer 2: But as an infectious disease, coronavirus has potential to spike up in short term in a way that cancer does not.

acequion

Drumpot wrote: »

Our economy would benefit significantly more if Irish people had their holiday in Ireland.

It’s interesting reading some of the “virus has been contained” comments, what does this mean exactly? It’s not contained because we don’t actually know the majority of people (asymptotic) who have it , it’s just not as high as it was. We know more now then we did 4 months ago but is “going back to normalcy” the prudent approach based on best science/medical grounds or just the approach that’s most popular?

Somebody said earlier that Irish hotels are expensive, look at houses and cottages for rent, they are very affordable in Kerry etc. People really will find ways to justify what they want to do.

Firstly, why would anybody have to "justify" wanting freedom of movement? It's what the entire free world revolves around. So I don't think anybody is trying to find excuses here, they're just stating the obvious. Ireland is extremely expensive, that's a fact and when coupled with unreliable weather that makes it an undesirable holiday destination for the many who, in our free society, have grown used to holidaying abroad. But we do have a strong tourist industry so I would very much question the expediency of dissuading foreign tourists for the entire season and hope it won't be the case.

In my county there have been no new confirmed cases for at least 10 days. To me, that sounds like containment.

Micky 32

acequion wrote: »

Firstly, why would anybody have to "justify" wanting freedom of movement? It's what the entire free world revolves around. So I don't think anybody is trying to find excuses here, they're just stating the obvious. Ireland is extremely expensive, that's a fact and when coupled with unreliable weather that makes it an undesirable holiday destination for the many who, in our free society, have grown used to holidaying abroad. But we do have a strong tourist industry so I would very much question the expediency of dissuading foreign tourists for the entire season and hope it won't be the case.

In my county there have been no new confirmed cases for at least 10 days. To me, that sounds like containment.

There’s other agendas at play. It seems you have to justify your freedom of movement to certain “groups”. Apparently “ not sustainable”.

Beechwoodspark

Ok so some ppl seem to have thrown the toys out of the pram when someone asks them NOT to travel outside Ireland for the foreseeable.

I can tell you now the rate of infection will definitely rise if ppl travel outside this island and bring it back here.

I and MANY others have vulnerable family and friends who are in dread of this bastard virus

This is a war. Our rate of infection per capita is already absolutely awful.

Choose your side. I know what everyone in my family circle is doing - NOT travelling.

This is the responsible adult choice.

Spare me the eye roll emojis.

otnomart

As mentioned earlier, for the rest of this year I only plan to visit family and friends.
Can't see myself negotiating hotels and sightseeing, yet.

Work in one Continental Europe country, and home/family is on another one; both countries should open borders in early July.
Already booked for late August, using the Voucher I received for my unused Easter holiday.

Haven't decided yet about July.
The next two weeks will tell the effect (if any) of the relaxing of lockdown in Continental Europe.
I will wait and see what happens by mid-June and then decide if travelling in mid-late July - or staying put.

Technocentral

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not sure how any of what you said contradicts my point that there is a risk to flying that does not exist with a staycation.

Especially as most people don't spend 2.5 - 5 or more hours walking around a Supermarket!

Micky 32

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ok so some ppl seem to have thrown the toys out of the pram when someone asks them NOT to travel outside Ireland for the foreseeable.

I can tell you now the rate of infection will definitely rise if ppl travel outside this island and bring it back here.

I and MANY others have vulnerable family and friends who are in dread of this bastard virus

This is a war. Our rate of infection per capita is already absolutely awful.

Choose your side. I know what everyone in my family circle is doing - NOT travelling.

This is the responsible adult choice.

Spare me the eye roll emojis.

We’ll have to avoid public transport too then. You’ll find not many people are flying at the moment anyway.

Technocentral

Micky 32 wrote: »

We’ll have to avoid public transport too then.

True but you MIGHT have to travel to work if your job insists but you DON'T have to go on holliers abroad.

Micky 32

Technocentral wrote: »

True but you MIGHT have to travel to work if your job insists but you DON'T have to go on holliers abroad.

Is there something wrong with your keyboard or are you stomping your feet?

Technocentral

Micky 32 wrote: »

Is there something wrong with your keyboard or are you stomping your feet?

I can't bold words for emphasis on my phone so I capitalised them you get my point though?

Micky 32

Technocentral wrote: »

I can't bold words for emphasis on my phone so I capitalised them you get my point though?

Work or not you wouldn’t see me on a crowded bus or train so your point means nada to me. Wind your neck in.

Technocentral

Micky 32 wrote: »

Work or not you wouldn’t see me on a crowded bus or train so your point means nada to me. Wind your neck in.

You misread my post, I meant some people are forced to go on public transport for work no body's forced to go abroad for holidays, that's all boss.

odyssey06

Technocentral wrote: »

You misread my post, I meant some people are forced to go on public transport for work no body's forced to go abroad for holidays, that's all boss.

Yep, and then also unless you are renting a car, strong probability flying abroad on holiday also involves a lot of use of public transport.

faceman

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ok so some ppl seem to have thrown the toys out of the pram when someone asks them NOT to travel outside Ireland for the foreseeable.

I can tell you now the rate of infection will definitely rise if ppl travel outside this island and bring it back here.

I and MANY others have vulnerable family and friends who are in dread of this bastard virus

This is a war. Our rate of infection per capita is already absolutely awful.

Choose your side. I know what everyone in my family circle is doing - NOT travelling.

This is the responsible adult choice.

Spare me the eye roll emojis.

With the greatest of respect, this is completely irrational. There are parts of Europe with far less Coronavirus issues than Ireland.

For example. The area surrounding Torrevieja south of Alicante is popular with Irish tourists. The Torrevieja hospital has had zero Coronavirus cases in ICU since May 5th. Lockdown has been so strict there (ATV tanks patrolling the streets and the police strictly enforcing lockdown) that by the time the country reopens there will be parts of the country with a hospital clean sheet of cases for weeks. The same can't be said about Ireland.

What often doesn't get talked about in the media when it comes to epidemics and pandemics is Farr’s Law. Which is pretty much the origin of the bell curve that we often hear about flattening. Part of the contribution to the bell curve drop (aside from the obvious of lockdowns) is that people's behaviours change. We become hygiene focussed and new measures come in to curb risks of reinfection. To us, that's face masks and social distancing, cough hygiene etc etc.

Its is not unwise to make calculated, educated risk assessments on our actions.

There is also mounting evidence suggesting that the longer term toll on the nation is going to high as a result of the lockdown measures. Thats not to say that lockdown was unnecessary - clearly it accelerates the expiry of the pandemic, however there is a cost that comes with it.

On average, Ireland loses 24 people daily to cancer. We haven't been cancer screening in months. I have a family member who is awaiting brain aneurysm surgery that was postponed since March (and had a prior session cancelled pre-Covid). They have now restarted scheduling surgeries and a June date is in the diary. If the aneurysm pops before then, that's another statistic and casualty of pandemic/lockdown despite not catching the virus.

I'm not trying to undermine your view or your concerns, I am trying to highlight that we need to be balanced with our views. Tomorrow 24 people will die in Ireland from cancer. How many Coronavirus deaths will we have?

Am I concerned about flying? Not as much as anyone else. I was flying in February and March prior to lockdown and took additional hygiene measures on the back of Coronavirus risk. I wore a face mask (which definitely attracted weird looks on some flights) and I used sanitary spray on the seat and tray table. I would have NEVER done that prior to all this kicking off. The difference the next time I get on a plane is that I will no longer be in a minority with those new behaviours.

Calculated risk assessment.

Micky 32

Technocentral wrote: »

You misread my post, I meant some people are forced to go on public transport for work no body's forced to go abroad for holidays, that's all boss.

I think you have been misreading my posts also. Not sure why you posted making a point about holidays to me. If you look through the thread you’ll find no post from me wanting to book any flight to Spain or Greece etc. I have no interest in any of those holidays. I use a plane to see family/relations. Secondly i have no intention risking a flight this year.

MarkY91

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ok so some ppl seem to have thrown the toys out of the pram when someone asks them NOT to travel outside Ireland for the foreseeable.

I can tell you now the rate of infection will definitely rise if ppl travel outside this island and bring it back here.

I and MANY others have vulnerable family and friends who are in dread of this bastard virus

This is a war. Our rate of infection per capita is already absolutely awful.

Choose your side. I know what everyone in my family circle is doing - NOT travelling.

This is the responsible adult choice.

Spare me the eye roll emojis.

Look at the huge protest the other day in Dublin and parks and beaches packed to the brim.

Socially distancing on a disinfected plane isn't going to make even a slight difference.

Padraig Mor

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yeah, booked Cork - Lanzarote for end July to mid August for €146 pp excluding extras. As somewhat of a connoisseur of Ryanair prices, I have to say that is VERY good for peak time. Plenty of seats already taken too according to the seat map. Used some of me ****ing vouchers too!

......and of course, the feckers dropped the price even more today! :rolleyes::mad: As little as ~€130 return now - that's a solid half usual price.

faceman

Padraig Mor wrote: »

......and of course, the feckers dropped the price even more today! :rolleyes::mad: As little as ~€130 return now - that's a solid half usual price.

They may have added more flights, is it the same date? I’ve noticed they added more flights on some Dublin to Spain routes as there was a couple of €70 on way flights for July which weren’t there a few days before. I guess July is selling out

faceman

Transcript of the oireachtas committee debate on travel and quarantine. This is bonkers in parts.

In short it appears there is no eagerness to lift quarantine or the recommendation to avoid non essential international trips anytime soon and beyond.

Bizarrely they say that an earlier quarantine/border closing would have made no difference yet stand over the decision to introduce it now.

Also worth nothing that the lifting of quarantine and travel recommendations is not included in any phase.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/special_committee_on_covid-19_response/2020-06-02/5/

whomitconcerns

Its always goingto be a balancing act...After Setpember 11th there were people swore they would never fly again...some still don't. Me..I was in the US when it happened and flew back as soon as flights were back on, but its never made me remotely think different about flying.

Im not saying YOLO...common sense is always good. But I was in LHR, LCY, ORD, JFK, DUB, CDG and MUC in the 3 weeks before the lockdown officially started, the latter 3 in the same week it started...so by all accounts I had a few hundred thousand interactions in some of the most highly trafficed airports in the world and I didnt come away with anything. And statistically im in one of the more vulnerable groups.

I'm not saying everyone is the same, but we definitely need to apply some common sense to get us going forward rather than just the "ulster says no" type attitude.

Padraig Mor

faceman wrote: »

They may have added more flights, is it the same date? I’ve noticed they added more flights on some Dublin to Spain routes as there was a couple of €70 on way flights for July which weren’t there a few days before. I guess July is selling out

No, same dates - whole bunch of them available at that price mid July to mid August. Strangely, it puts Lanzarote cheaper in large part than other 'closer' destinations - Faro, mainland Spain, etc. Yet I've seen reports they're not flying to Lanzarote from a lot of UK airports.

faceman wrote: »

In short it appears there is no eagerness to lift quarantine or the recommendation to avoid non essential international trips anytime soon and beyond.

Also worth nothing that the lifting of quarantine and travel recommendations is not included in any phase.

These restrictions will be well torn up by mid July latest in my estimation - maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see Paddy having his border closed when the rest of Europe is enjoying their summer holidays. I mean, isn't that the reason they didn't close the borders in Feb when they should have?

Bizarrely they say that an earlier quarantine/border closing would have made no difference yet stand over the decision to introduce it now.

Absolutely laughable! We really are at the 'cover your arse' stage now.

Micky 32

faceman wrote: »

Transcript of the oireachtas committee debate on travel and quarantine. This is bonkers in parts.

In short it appears there is no eagerness to lift quarantine or the recommendation to avoid non essential international trips anytime soon and beyond.

Bizarrely they say that an earlier quarantine/border closing would have made no difference yet stand over the decision to introduce it now.

Also worth nothing that the lifting of quarantine and travel recommendations is not included in any phase.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/special_committee_on_covid-19_response/2020-06-02/5/

There’s no law for mandatory quarantine and unlikely there ever will be at this stage. People will just start travelling eventually and won’t pass any heed on it. Best of luck to Simon and co trying to check on thousands of people travelling in the future.

Tenzor07

Micky 32 wrote: »

There’s no law for mandatory quarantine and unlikely there ever will be at this stage. People will just start travelling eventually and won’t pass any heed on it. Best of luck to Simon and co trying to check on thousands of people travelling in the future.

At the moment Ireland has a lame-duck Taoiseach, unelected cabinet with ministers who lost their seats 116 days ago now.

They have to pass legislation of national security in the next couple of weeks I believe which will ensure criminal law relating to the SPCC is renewed again for another year.

So going by the above I can't see the 14 day travel quarantine being anymore than signing a piece of paper...
Still, it sends out the wrong message to tourists that Ireland is closed for Business!

Caranica

Mandatory quarantine cannot be easily introduced. No legislation can be signed until we have a new government and the SPCC stuff is ready to go. They've repeatedly said that mandatory quarantine is legally complex, it won't happen.

jonnny68

im flying in just over 2 weeks to the UK, if these ridiculous restrictions upon arrival back to Ireland are still in place to self isolate for 2 weeks ill have to get the overnight ferry from Liverpool to Belfast but id sooner not have to embark on that nightmarish long journey and just fly back to Dublin.

Hopefully they'll come to their senses and fast track restrictions including this stupid self isolate .

faceman

Leo mentioned in the Dail today that they are considering making incoming travellers pay for a coronavirus test on arrival if they can’t prove they don’t have the virus. Tests currently cost €190

If that is introduced that’s the end of any travel for most people and will kill off any hope of tourism over the summer

Clowns

odyssey06

faceman wrote: »

Leo mentioned in the Dail today that they are considering making incoming travellers pay for a coronavirus test on arrival if they can’t prove they don’t have the virus. Tests currently cost €190
If that is introduced that’s the end of any travel for most people and will kill off any hope of tourism over the summer

If legislating for mandatory quarantine is messy this would seem equally so...
What happens if an Irish citizen returning from abroad refuses to pay for the test?

Micky 32

faceman wrote: »

Leo mentioned in the Dail today that they are considering making incoming travellers pay for a coronavirus test on arrival if they can’t prove they don’t have the virus. Tests currently cost €190

If that is introduced that’s the end of any travel for most people and will kill off any hope of tourism over the summer

Clowns

I’m guessing if you do the test and it’s negative they won’t expect you to do the 14 day quarantine?

faceman

Micky 32 wrote: »

I’m guessing if you do the test and it’s negative they won’t expect you to do the 14 day quarantine?

But stiff you with a bill for the privilege.

Meglamonia

The only thing putting me off going on holiday in August is the reception from locals. They have just overcome a virus that has killed thousands of their people (in Spains case anyway) or will they be happy to see normality resume and see us a contributors to their economy being restarted? What are peoples thoughts on this?

NSAman

Mr.S wrote: »

I would say any destination that relies on tourism will welcome you with open arms in August.

Having just spoke to our office in Greece, they are hoping that tourism will come back strong this year. They want to welcome tourists there but currently no one is travelling YET. The place is basically gearing up for a tourist season but will people travel is the question....

Ireland if it implements these rules (which at this stage I think are obsolete) is going to kill any chance the tourism sector will have to recover SOME of the lost earnings for this year.

Yes there is a balancing act. Does the country allow tourism and get the sector working again OR does it basically say FECK OFF we don't want you here......

If the latter, this interim government is going to destroy thousands of jobs and close many businesses permanently.

whomitconcerns

faceman wrote: »

Leo mentioned in the Dail today that they are considering making incoming travellers pay for a coronavirus test on arrival if they can’t prove they don’t have the virus. Tests currently cost €190

If that is introduced that’s the end of any travel for most people and will kill off any hope of tourism over the summer

Clowns

I'm in the UK at the moment and to be honest I would pay that if it meant that was out dealt with. Not cheap but then it's fine y.. For now anyway

josip

€190 a head would be an €760 additional tax we'd have to pay for our holiday.
I think we'd stay at home on financial grounds and we wouldn't spend any of the savings domestically if Ireland imposes that policy.
I pay enough tax during the year without subsidising an overpriced domestic tourist sector.

Caranica

jonnny68 wrote: »

im flying in just over 2 weeks to the UK, if these ridiculous restrictions upon arrival back to Ireland are still in place to self isolate for 2 weeks ill have to get the overnight ferry from Liverpool to Belfast but id sooner not have to embark on that nightmarish long journey and just fly back to Dublin.

Hopefully they'll come to their senses and fast track restrictions including this stupid self isolate .

Regardless of how you get into the country you're supposed to follow the law.

Micky 32

Caranica wrote: »

Regardless of how you get into the country you're supposed to follow the law.

What law?

NSAman

Caranica wrote: »

Regardless of how you get into the country you're supposed to follow the law.

Correct....

Here (USA) while travel into the country at the moment is non-existent... even the people in our states are wondering what "laws" are being implemented.

Four family members can get in a car and drive to a lake, but only two family members can board a boat.

Hash/Cannabis shops are classed as essential businesses (after only 5 months) but family businesses are not classed as essential businesses after generations (even selling food products)

Looking around at many of the laws being contemplated, they are out dated and should have been in place weeks ago. They will harm economies going forward and many people will loose livelihoods over these.

I am all for being safe (for myself,my family, my work colleagues etc.) I am never going to put anyone in harm knowingly. The problem is "knowingly". Either a test before travelling, which does not exempt you completely from having/getting the virus or use common judgement and common sense to stop spreading this virus further??.