Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

Ivefoundgod

Frisbee wrote: »

Haven't bought any equipment as was supposed to get fitted for new clubs the day after the new restrictions came in so still holding off for that. I can tell you one thing though, when we do go back I will definitely look the part with the amount of new golf clothing I have bought.

I had planned on getting fitted for a driver as well but with all the delays ended up picking up a few 2nd hand options to try out. Will get fitted next year I think, this year my plan is to just get back playing regularly and I'll worry about improving next year.

I'm the same with clothes, just raging County Golf stopped shipping over here since January.

The Big Easy

blue note wrote: »

Cases are twice what they were last year. And you have these new variants. But you have the vaccines.

Overall we are probably in a worse position than this time last year and we're talking about easing rather than increasing restrictions.

Maybe a further lockdown is what's needed until the vaccines actually come in. People are talking about a raft of restrictions being lifted and individually you wouldn't really criticise any of them. But combined, maybe it's not such a good idea.

We'll see do the government take the easy option and relax restrictions or the ballsy one and keep them.

Do you genuinely believe this?

Last year, we knew next to nothing about a possibly deadly virus with vaccines likely to be years away if they could be developed. Fear and uncertainty at that point were a proportionate response.

Now we know it's a moderately deadly virus by any objective measure. We have multiple vaccines showing high efficacies currently being administered throughout the globe.

Maybe you are a very risk adverse person or a very fearful person, which is fine and just on the spectrum of individual difference, but to want the rest of the country to live according to your own risk profile is unreasonable.

Kiith

I've to order new clothes to fit the additional bulk this lockdown has forced on me :pac:

Keano

This thread has been lightly moderated as it's not your normal topic. We've not bee too harsh on people as it's a very difficult time for everyone so can you just remember that before you post. Lots of posts are overstepping the mark now and we will be left with no choice but to close the thread for good.

The Big Easy

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0329/1206695-england-coronavirus-restrictions/

They teed off just after midnight!

The Big Easy

Kiith wrote: »

I've to order new clothes to fit the additional bulk this lockdown has forced on me :pac:

Maybe they'll allow tracksuit bottoms initially upon reopening

blue note

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the GAA schedule for 2021 starting with the leagues? Which isn't widely watched with a lot of games on Eir Sports rather than terrestrial TV. If it was the All Ireland that they were allowing GAA back for I'd say fair enough but that's not the case.



Rugby is professional only though isn't it? So those players are in bubbles and that still didn't prevent French rugby having an outbreak during the 6 nations.

I'm not against the GAA coming back if it was for the All Ireland as that would be a genuine boost to a huge amount of people across the country but bringing it back now to allow the leagues is ridiculous if its at the expense of sports with much larger participation amongst the general public. I take your point around outdoor sports in general but I think its harder to justify a large group of people gathering to play GAA than it is tennis or golf.

I'd say you're underestimating how many watch the league games. The ones on tg4 would still get 6 figure viewership I'd say. Depending on who is in he league final you could get 4 or 5 hundred thousand viewers. Being on terrestrial TV makes all the difference.

I don't think the league should go ahead to be honest. The championship would be enough. But it's not accurate to say that it's not widely watched. You've also got all the radio discussion on it too, newspaper articles, league Sunday is one of the most watched programmes of the week. It's a valuable outlet for a lot of people.

The optics of gaa matches or 5 a side or the like aren't great, but those actual activities aren't risky. I do think they should be shut though, because of the other stuff that will go in if you allow them.

I even think golf should probably be allowed on a member only basis. But I'm far from confident that it's the right decision. And I hope the decision makers make the decision they believe to be right as opposed to easy. And definitely the easy one right now is opening up some things like golf. Sure they're probably golfers themselves who'd love to play a round. And listening to their mates who are getting on to them to allow golf.

bustercherry

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the GAA schedule for 2021 starting with the leagues? Which isn't widely watched with a lot of games on Eir Sports rather than terrestrial TV. If it was the All Ireland that they were allowing GAA back for I'd say fair enough but that's not the case.



Rugby is professional only though isn't it? So those players are in bubbles and that still didn't prevent French rugby having an outbreak during the 6 nations.

I'm not against the GAA coming back if it was for the All Ireland as that would be a genuine boost to a huge amount of people across the country but bringing it back now to allow the leagues is ridiculous if its at the expense of sports with much larger participation amongst the general public. I take your point around outdoor sports in general but I think its harder to justify a large group of people gathering to play GAA than it is tennis or golf.

You can't just expected intercounty players to pick up and resume without proper training. It's just not feasible. Inter country training would be classed under elite amateur status, so effectively club golf and intercounty GAA is not equivalent.

If they allow intercounty and don't open up golf to elite amateurs, then people can moan all they like then

Kiith

The Big Easy wrote: »

Maybe they'll allow tracksuit bottoms initially upon reopening

I probably need to replace those as well :eek:

Wombatman

blue note wrote: »

Cases are twice what they were last year. And you have these new variants. But you have the vaccines.

Overall we are probably in a worse position than this time last year and we're talking about easing rather than increasing restrictions.

Maybe a further lockdown is what's needed until the vaccines actually come in. People are talking about a raft of restrictions being lifted and individually you wouldn't really criticise any of them. But combined, maybe it's not such a good idea.

We'll see do the government take the easy option and relax restrictions or the ballsy one and keep them.

Nope.

If we go by hospital admissions, because they are more reliable:
April 2020: 34 admissions per day average (average daily cases: 503)
March 2021: 22 admissions per day average (average daily cases: 538)
So 600 cases today would see the same number hospitalized as 388 cases last April.

Wombatman

I'd take 9 holes only with 2 ball family members at this stage.

I mean there are groups out walking on golf courses every day. What difference will it make if we smack a little ball along the way?

Ivefoundgod

blue note wrote: »

I'd say you're underestimating how many watch the league games. The ones on tg4 would still get 6 figure viewership I'd say. Depending on who is in he league final you could get 4 or 5 hundred thousand viewers. Being on terrestrial TV makes all the difference.

I don't think the league should go ahead to be honest. The championship would be enough. But it's not accurate to say that it's not widely watched. You've also got all the radio discussion on it too, newspaper articles, league Sunday is one of the most watched programmes of the week. It's a valuable outlet for a lot of people.

Quick google gives me this, so 265k watched the 2019 league final, not exactly massive. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/broadcasting-pendulum-swings-back-to-gaelic-games-in-2019-1.4142313

I think even most GAA people would admit the league is of a lot less interest to a anyone outside the hardcore GAA fan.

bustercherry wrote: »

You can't just expected intercounty players to pick up and resume without proper training. It's just not feasible. Inter country training would be classed under elite amateur status, so effectively club golf and intercounty GAA is not equivalent.

If they allow intercounty and don't open up golf to elite amateurs, then people can moan all they like then

Right but I didn't actually say I expect them to pick up and resume without training. I am saying the All Ireland isn't due to start until a few months time, I'd have no issue with GAA coming back in a months time when we're further along the vaccination journey, that allows plenty of time to get back up and running with training and time to run off the All Ireland as well.

I don't think there is time to run off the leagues and All Ireland to be honest and the club season looks like a write off at this stage as well IMO.

Anyway I'm getting sidetracked, my point is I don't think its logical to allow inter county GAA resume but not golf or tennis, that's it.

ForeRight

Wombatman wrote: »

Nope.

If we go by hospital admissions, because they are more reliable:
April 2020: 34 admissions per day average (average daily cases: 503)
March 2021: 22 admissions per day average (average daily cases: 538)
So 600 cases today would see the same number hospitalized as 388 cases last April.

Because in the large part those who need hospital most are now vaccinated.

Also god knows how many cases we actually had last year as our testing was atrocious

Finlay Harp

I’m confused as to why some on here are predicting four balls on return.
I’m getting out on Thursday in the North in a two ball as per GUI instructions and government guidelines and I’m more than happy to just be getting out.
Surely that’s what’s coming in the Republic when golf reopens?

whitefoot

Does anyone know of any other country apart from Ireland in the R&A Top 20 by quantity of courses, that could be still closed on the 12th April?



I know US, Australia, England & Sotland would certainly be open by that date.



Top 20 golfing countries(by no. of courses)

Country
United States16,752
Japan 3,169
Canada 2,633
England 2,270
Australia 1,616
Germany 1,050

France 804
Korea, Republic Of 798

Sweden 662 Scotland 614

China 599
Spain 497
Ireland 494
South Africa 489
New Zealand 418

Argentina 349
Denmark 346
Netherlands 330

Italy 321
Thailand 315

11521323

whitefoot wrote: »

Does anyone know of any other country apart from Ireland in the R&A Top 20 by quantity of courses, that could be still closed on the 12th April?



I know US, Australia, England & Sotland would certainly be open by that date.



Top 20 golfing countries(by no. of courses)

Country
United States16,752
Japan 3,169
Canada 2,633
England 2,270
Australia 1,616
Germany 1,050

France 804
Korea, Republic Of 798

Sweden 662 Scotland 614

China 599
Spain 497
Ireland 494
South Africa 489
New Zealand 418

Argentina 349
Denmark 346
Netherlands 330

Italy 321
Thailand 315

Not aware of any other country on the planet come April 2nd that will still have courses closed.

Kiith

A co-worker of mine who has a friend in the HSE told me he's been told that golf will the go-ahead next week, though it may tie into a deal being done with the GAA.

Reminds me of this tbh :P

Wombatman

The shadow of "Golfgate" and the famous Tullamore Golf outing could really go against us in the final analysis.

bustercherry

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Quick google gives me this, so 265k watched the 2019 league final, not exactly massive. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/broadcasting-pendulum-swings-back-to-gaelic-games-in-2019-1.4142313

I think even most GAA people would admit the league is of a lot less interest to a anyone outside the hardcore GAA fan.



Right but I didn't actually say I expect them to pick up and resume without training. I am saying the All Ireland isn't due to start until a few months time, I'd have no issue with GAA coming back in a months time when we're further along the vaccination journey, that allows plenty of time to get back up and running with training and time to run off the All Ireland as well.

I don't think there is time to run off the leagues and All Ireland to be honest and the club season looks like a write off at this stage as well IMO.

Anyway I'm getting sidetracked, my point is I don't think its logical to allow inter county GAA resume but not golf or tennis, that's it.

Does it? Have you ever competed at elite level to back this up?

At this point there would have been a full league campaign and club GAA. Also there are commercial rationals for getting inter county GAA up and running sooner.

It's completely illogical to compare elite amateur sport to club golf. I think it should and hope golf opens; but as as I pointed out using inter county GAA (non-contact) training as a reference equates to elite amateur golfers only being allowed out to practice, so they can prepare for the elite amateur comps. How many of those are you eligible for?

The Big Easy

Let's be positive, avoid the leaks, and hope for April 12th at the very least

11521323

bustercherry wrote: »

Does it? Have you ever competed at elite level to back this up?

At this point there would have been a full league campaign and club GAA. Also there are commercial rationals for getting inter county GAA up and running sooner.

It's completely illogical to compare elite amateur sport to club golf. I think it should and hope golf opens; but as as I pointed out using inter county GAA (non-contact) training as a reference equates to elite amateur golfers only being allowed out to practice, so they can prepare for the elite amateur comps. How many of those are you eligible for?

I'm not clear where you stand on this but there is zero scientific evidence or rational logic to support the closure of golf courses. ~10% of the population play occasionally (which logically could be regularly now that everything else is closed) and it's completely safe (at least as safe as going to a park or for a walk on the street)

Every other country on the planet have also acknowledged the above besides us if they remain closed any longer. It's farcical they were ever closed to begin with.

RGS

blue note wrote: »

Allowing intercounty is entirely for the masses. The idea is that you let a couple thousand people compete under strict guidelines and hundreds of thousands will watch them on TV each week and have something to follow.

But I expect as before most people here will ignore that, talk about "GAA being open" as opposed to .1% of GAA being open. It's amazing how much people can see what they want to see.

I'm not anti GAA I played the game for over 25 years and still miss the playing.


But inter county is for the elite of the sport. There wont be any GAA on TV in April, so your argument about people watching is moot.

bustercherry

11521323 wrote: »

I'm not clear where you stand on this but there is zero scientific evidence or rational logic to support the closure of golf courses. ~10% of the population play occasionally (which logically could be regularly now that everything else is closed) and it's completely safe (at least as safe as going to a park or for a walk on the street)

Every other country on the planet have also acknowledged the above besides us if they remain closed any longer. It's farcical they were ever closed to begin with.

What's that got to do with my post?

Plus it's not completely safe, it's deemed low risk. The only thing that is safe is staying the fcuk at home

Golf is closed because we are in level 5.Everything is closed to limit the movement and interactions of people from non-essential journeys.

The problem is the government need to enact policy that limits the spread/outbreaks but balance it with acceptable risk. Opening golf will have to coincide with other restrictions being lifted which in turn increases the cumulative risk (of all activities a person does) of catching or transmitting the virus not only within their own community but to other communities.

I hope it opens but there is plenty of scientific evidence to back up limiting the movement of people prevents the spread from communities.

Ivefoundgod

bustercherry wrote: »

Does it? Have you ever competed at elite level to back this up?

Not to be too blunt about it, but we're in a global pandemic. If they can't get themselves organised to play fixtures within that time frame then tough **** to be honest. Every sport has been impacted by it, including professional leagues all over the world having reduced training, reduced time with coaches and in the case of NFL and NBA last year had little to no training time with new draft players. They still managed to play the season. GAA would want to get a grip if they're going to start saying that's not enough time to run off a season. They're amateurs after all, can't have it both ways.

At this point there would have been a full league campaign and club GAA. Also there are commercial rationals for getting inter county GAA up and running sooner.

Golf has commercial rationale behind it returning too, as does every sport in the country to be frank, why should GAA get priority in this respect?

It's completely illogical to compare elite amateur sport to club golf. I think it should and hope golf opens; but as as I pointed out using inter county GAA (non-contact) training as a reference equates to elite amateur golfers only being allowed out to practice, so they can prepare for the elite amateur comps. How many of those are you eligible for?

I could make the same point about GAA to be fair, to compare Dublin against my own county or many other small counties is completely illogical too. Also not sure where the non-contact is coming from but I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that GAA teams would go back to non-contact training. They couldn't even help themselves when there was no training allowed at all given we had two instances where inter county teams were caught training. I'm not anti-GAA at all but I just don't get the argument that inter county GAA is more beneficial to the public than golf or tennis.

blue note

RGS wrote: »

I'm not anti GAA I played the game for over 25 years and still miss the playing.


But inter county is for the elite of the sport. There wont be any GAA on TV in April, so your argument about people watching is moot.

If the league started back why wouldn't they show it on TV? I'm sure they'll be some training before it but that'll be needed regardless of when it starts back.

Mantis Toboggan

Any leaks for the government yet?

11521323

bustercherry wrote: »

What's that got to do with my post?

Plus it's not completely safe, it's deemed low risk. The only thing that is safe is staying the fcuk at home

Golf is closed because we are in level 5.Everything is closed to limit the movement and interactions of people from non-essential journeys.

The problem is the government need to enact policy that limits the spread/outbreaks but balance it with acceptable risk. Opening golf will have to coincide with other restrictions being lifted which in turn increases the cumulative risk (of all activities a person does) of catching or transmitting the virus not only within their own community but to other communities.

I hope it opens but there is plenty of scientific evidence to back up limiting the movement of people prevents the spread from communities.

I'm not going to get dragged into a discussion on why keeping everything closed perpetually isn't a good strategy. There are a number of things within society that present extremely low-risk where the cost-benefit of keeping them closed just doesn't support their continued closure.

The government will allow parks, beaches, golf courses (yes, the irony), etc. to be packed with people without any restriction but deem walking around a golf course with a bag of steel sticks unsafe.

The 'oh well it's to restrict movement' mantra works when people aren't moving about freely but the reality is, they are. Keeping courses closed, based on the current state of reality and what is currently happening within the country, is nonsensical.

I can see your point and would tend to agree if people were actually respecting the current restrictions RE: limiting movement but they're not, basing restrictions on a fantasy of what you would like to happen is ridiculous.

ForeRight

Why are people still banging the drum that golf is safe and there’s no scientific evidence of it being a lethal activity in terms of the virus?

Everyone knows it’s safe, nphet, government and the dogs in the street.

It’s not closed because it’s unsafe. It’s currently closed as if was allowed there is a domino effect behind it of industry after industry arguing their cause as they deem themselves safe also. It’s hard to draw a line in the sand as to what’s ok and what’s not without a can of worms being opened so I was always able to understand the logic of restrictions.

However I firmly believe now is the time for an easing of these restrictions given the vaccination of the population that largely threaten the hospital system.

5km in the bin now, kids play their sports, golf and tennis open, construction should open.

Pubs, restaurants, gyms etc I can understand they need a while longer before opening to assess how the minor opening up affects things.

11521323

ForeRight wrote: »

Why are people still banging the drum that golf is safe and there’s no scientific evidence of it being a lethal activity in terms of the virus?

Everyone knows it’s safe, nphet, government and the dogs in the street.

It’s not closed because it’s unsafe. It’s currently closed as if was allowed there is a domino effect behind it of industry after industry arguing their cause as they deem themselves safe also. It’s hard to draw a line in the sand as to what’s ok and what’s not without a can of worms being opened so I was always able to understand the logic of restrictions.

It's not that difficult to draw a line in the sand here. Outdoor, non-contact activities. I can't think of any other activity or sport that could argue for their safe return under that pretence without having to try and adequately rationalize further elements of risk that don't apply to golf or tennis.

I think we agree on the big-picture anyway. The time has passed where keeping low-risk, safe activities closed to 'restrict movement' is an acceptable measure to have in place.

newport2

ForeRight wrote: »

Why are people still banging the drum that golf is safe and there’s no scientific evidence of it being a lethal activity in terms of the virus?

Everyone knows it’s safe, nphet, government and the dogs in the street.

It’s not closed because it’s unsafe. It’s currently closed as if was allowed there is a domino effect behind it of industry after industry arguing their cause as they deem themselves safe also. It’s hard to draw a line in the sand as to what’s ok and what’s not without a can of worms being opened so I was always able to understand the logic of restrictions.

However I firmly believe now is the time for an easing of these restrictions given the vaccination of the population that largely threaten the hospital system.

5km in the bin now, kids play their sports, golf and tennis open, construction should open.

Pubs, restaurants, gyms etc I can understand they need a while longer before opening to assess how the minor opening up affects things.

This.

The more outdoor low-risk activities are restricted, the more indoor higher-risk events will happen. NPHET have confirmed themselves that people meeting indoors is where the cases are coming from. Make it easy for people to spend time outdoors on healthy activities.

I'm expecting golf to open, but suspect they will only increase 5k to 10k, making it unavailable to a lot of people. I hope I'm wrong about this.