Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

eoghan104

Seve OB wrote: »

I fear for a lot of clubs.
Turn of the year would be the busiest time for renewals and there will be a lot questioning whether or not renewals will be worthwhile, especially for those who live a bit further or out of county.
I will be seriously considering my own membership, not something I thought I would ever do, now 31 years a member and no wish to live... but whats the point if I can't play golf there!

Jesus mate it's only golf!

tbayers

Seve OB wrote: »

I fear for a lot of clubs.
Turn of the year would be the busiest time for renewals and there will be a lot questioning whether or not renewals will be worthwhile, especially for those who live a bit further or out of county.
I will be seriously considering my own membership, not something I thought I would ever do, now 31 years a member and no wish to live... but whats the point if I can't play golf there!

I don't want to do it either, but very very hard to justify paying same price as I did two years ago. And this sets a precedent too, another L5 and we are finished again. Open club up as a park, just do something different than just closing it down.

tbayers

tbayers wrote: »

. Open club up as a park, .

No way.

xgronkjabv6pcl

tbayers wrote: »

So we can go walk in a park with dozens others but we can't go play golf which is basically a giant park, not even on our own? Memebership has to be questioned now, mine was due for renewal but why would some people join back up knowing if we go to L5 again we won't be able to play. This is madness!

Outside of any financial pressures which may arise for people as a result of this decision, I don't quite agree that an external decision to close courses is a great reason not to renew your membership.

Obviously it depends on how much value you place in club membership but I personally have no problem continuing to pay. If people take the attitude of not renewing as a result of this then many clubs might not reopen.

This is a decision that has been taken out of a clubs' hands so hard to punish them for it.

Seve OB

eoghan104 wrote: »

Jesus mate it's only golf!

ooops!!!!

Blud

Jordy Fancy Relaxation wrote: »

Outside of any financial pressures which may arise for people as a result of this decision, I don't quite agree that an external decision to close courses is a great reason not to renew your membership.

Obviously it depends on how much value you place in club membership but I personally have no problem continuing to pay. If people take the attitude of not renewing as a result of this then many clubs might not reopen.

This is a decision that has been taken out of a clubs' hands so hard to punish them for it.

It depends on if you view yourself as a member of a club or a consumer. Those in the second category might struggle to justify renewal.

That is not to judge either category - there are legitimate reasons for both.

tbayers

Jordy Fancy Relaxation wrote: »

Outside of any financial pressures which may arise for people as a result of this decision, I don't quite agree that an external decision to close courses is a great reason not to renew your membership.

Obviously it depends on how much value you place in club membership but I personally have no problem continuing to pay. If people take the attitude of not renewing as a result of this then many clubs might not reopen.

This is a decision that has been taken out of a clubs' hands so hard to punish them for it.

So people are paying money to golf clubs for love of the club?? I find that hard to believe. People are paying money to clubs for value for money. Hence people move around so much. Giving new members a year and half (sometimes two years) membership for the price of one also makes it hard for existing members to continue. If they keep on new members they won't have an issue.

CowboyTed

I find this one hard to justify...

There was no confirmed cases from people actually playing golf as I have heard.

Construction was a disaster...

DeanAustin

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

The only reason golf will not be available is for some window dressing by the gubberment to appear in touch after the eejits in galway during the summer. Even though the golf was not the issue it was a feckin dinner.

No scientific or logical reason people should not be allowed to play golf in 150 acres outside.

I get the frustration. I don’t really agree with it either. But to say there is no sense in closing courses isn’t right.

You have people from different households playing together and congregating albeit in an outdoor environment. They government are also trying to restrict people’s movements. We all know that people travelled more than 5k to play the last time. Most of us would probably have done the same. I’ve played with people who crossed county borders recently to play. Taking golf away stops that happening. The risk of that sort of movement isn’t just going to and from the course. What if you stop along the way for petrol or stop at the shop? I’d chance travelling more than 5k if courses were open and my course was further away. So would most people I know and timesheets would have been rammed with like minded people because there is f**k all else to do.

Personally, I think the cons outweigh the pros here but there are pros to this decision if the aim is to limit people’s movements. I don’t like it but I’m not an epidemiologist or an expert so I’m prepared to trust their advice and go with it.

xgronkjabv6pcl

Blud wrote: »

It depends on if you view yourself as a member of a club or a consumer. Those in the second category might struggle to justify renewal.

That is not to judge either category - there are legitimate reasons for both.

Absolutely.
As I said, it depends on your vantage point.

Do you view it a community you wish to be a part of for years beyond this or is membership to the club effectively a regular green fee.

I'm not judging either but for me-as a 1st year member of a club- it's not a reason to stall my renewal.

tbayers wrote: »

So people are paying money to golf clubs for love of the club?? I find that hard to believe. People are paying money to clubs for value for money. Hence people move around so much. Giving new members a year and half (sometimes two years) membership for the price of one also makes it hard for existing members to continue. If they keep on new members they won't have an issue.

I never said people are paying out of love of the club as you put it. Paying for albeit no utility in the short term may be advantageous because you can get utility from the club in the future.

If all took your view which I think is myopic then they may suffer long term as a result of closures, falling standards etc

It's not "love of the club" per se, loyalty is a factor but there are also tangible long term benefits.

CalamariFritti

Ah jesus not this nonsense again. That'll be the last thing I will say on covid in general and risk etc

Hoboo

CowboyTed wrote: »

I find this one hard to justify...

There was no confirmed cases from people actually playing golf as I have heard.

Construction was a disaster...

One golf society in Tullamore. Ministers pissup just sullied golf for every future lockdown.

Hoboo

Last lockdown there was more people out walking dogs and riding bikes on the course than would have been playing on a packed Sunday timesheet. Families out picnicing on fairways.

It's bonkers.

blue note

If it is banned (and unfortunately it looks like it is) I think it's more collateral damage than banned because the actual golf is dangerous. When you start making exceptions, people will take it on themselves to make their own exceptions. Stuff like, I know golfers area going more than 5k to play golf, so I will too. I know golfers are mixing with people from more than one other house so I will too. I know golfers are still allowed to play so I'll be fine to cycle, run with my running club, do circuit training in small groups, etc.

If you're only looking at golf, you're missing the point of why it's not allowed. People see one exception and try to use that to justify why they should be allowed to continue with their sport.

tbayers

Jordy Fancy Relaxation wrote: »

Absolutely.
As I said, it depends on your vantage point.

Do you view it a community you wish to be a part of for years beyond this or is membership to the club effectively a regular green fee.

I'm not judging either but for me-as a 1st year member of a club- it's not a reason to stall my renewal.



I never said people are paying out of love of the club as you put it. Paying for albeit no utility in the short term may be advantageous because you can get utility from the club in the future.

If all took your view which I think is myopic then they may suffer long term as a result of closures, falling standards etc

It's not "love of the club" per se, loyalty is a factor but there are also tangible long term benefits.

Thats fair enough and see where you are coming from. But I could go for a walk on my local beach and meet as many people as I would after playing 10 rounds of golf. If systems are put in place on a golf course it is actually safer than going for a walk. Going for a walk during last lockdown was manic as the radius is quite small and everyone pounded the same route. Just can't see justification that if golf club is within 5km that you cant go play golf. I dunno, this one just hurts. And its pretty raw atm

ronnie3585

Almost 4pm, new measures coming into force at midnight and still no word from the GUI.

Shocking.

Roger_007

Hoboo wrote: »

One golf society in Tullamore. Ministers pissup just sullied golf for every future lockdown.

Neither of those incidents involved any breach of regulations while playing golf, it was the socialising afterwards.
This decision, if it’s true, is not about health or safety. It’s about the optics for the government.

blue note

Hoboo wrote: »

One golf society in Tullamore. Ministers pissup just sullied golf for every future lockdown.

They were the only ones that made the papers. Look at the amount of people here who got to play in kerry, sligo, Donegal, etc. You can be sure people were going down with their mates, sharing cars, hotel rooms, dinner tables etc.

I'd have said ban green fees. It would significantly help to keep it local. But, it looks like they've gone with the close everything option. I'm disappointed, but it's not a decision anyone is taking lightly. I'm not going to criticise them too harshly. If I was in he meeting I could have ended up voting for it.

CowboyTed

tbayers wrote: »

Thats fair enough and see where you are coming from. But I could go for a walk on my local beach and meet as many people as I would after playing 10 rounds of golf. If systems are put in place on a golf course it is actually safer than going for a walk. Going for a walk during last lockdown was manic as the radius is quite small and everyone pounded the same route. Just can't see justification that if golf club is within 5km that you cant go play golf. I dunno, this one just hurts. And its pretty raw atm

I think the main problem is some golfers pulled the piss on the 5km rule...

Saying that if Golfers agreed to allowing there addresses to released to the Garda if they visit, I do't see the problem.

That way the Golf Club is not policing it...

Mr Mister

blue note wrote: »

If it is banned (and unfortunately it looks like it is) I think it's more collateral damage than banned because the actual golf is dangerous. When you start making exceptions, people will take it on themselves to make their own exceptions. Stuff like, I know golfers area going more than 5k to play golf, so I will too. I know golfers are mixing with people from more than one other house so I will too. I know golfers are still allowed to play so I'll be fine to cycle, run with my running club, do circuit training in small groups, etc.

If you're only looking at golf, you're missing the point of why it's not allowed. People see one exception and try to use that to justify why they should be allowed to continue with their sport.

I think you have a valid point here and not to bring GAA back into the mix but it's a valid example as an exception has been made for them - if Donegal vs Longford can play in the Nickey Rackard Cup (a sub championship of the main Hurling championship), then people would be entitled to ask the very same questions you have mentioned above. Why can't I just go off and have a football match with 22 mates in a field, or why can't I play golf with 3 others over 200 acres?

Putting those teams in the same Covid 'bucket' as the Dublin Footballers, is like comparing Rory McIlroy with an 18 handicapper

A Shaved Duck?

DeanAustin wrote: »

I get the frustration. I don’t really agree with it either. But to say there is no sense in closing courses isn’t right.

You have people from different households playing together and congregating albeit in an outdoor environment. They government are also trying to restrict people’s movements. We all know that people travelled more than 5k to play the last time. Most of us would probably have done the same. I’ve played with people who crossed county borders recently to play. Taking golf away stops that happening. The risk of that sort of movement isn’t just going to and from the course. What if you stop along the way for petrol or stop at the shop? I’d chance travelling more than 5k if courses were open and my course was further away. So would most people I know and timesheets would have been rammed with like minded people because there is f**k all else to do.

Personally, I think the cons outweigh the pros here but there are pros to this decision if the aim is to limit people’s movements. I don’t like it but I’m not an epidemiologist or an expert so I’m prepared to trust their advice and go with it.

In fairness the argument you are making is that people cant be trusted to be responsible and to stay within the 5k restriction. That has no relation to the science behind people playing a game outside while socially distancing.

If its the rule brought in then so be it, but imo its a reactionary decision based on their own ministers flagrant disregard for all advice during the summer.

DuckSlice

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Almost 4pm, new measures coming into force at midnight and still no word from the GUI.

Shocking.

Will be last minute as was the last few announcements on this.

Mushy

Have heard of one top course thatll be closing for 6 weeks from a worker there. Was hoping thatd be lies, but with the reports coming through I'd imagine thatll be it.

DeanAustin

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

In fairness the argument you are making is that people cant be trusted to be responsible and to stay within the 5k restriction. That has no relation to the science behind people playing a game outside while socially distancing.

If its the rule brought in then so be it, but imo its a reactionary decision based on their own ministers flagrant disregard for all advice during the summer.

I'm assuming that the government and NPHET have implemented the travel restriction because people travelling increases the chances of Covid spreading. That presumably holds true whether they are going to play golf or heading to an orgy. While the latter activity may represent a higher risk than playing golf, presumably both present a level of risk that government have deemed not worth it.

sheroman01

Unbelievably disappointed with this decision. Just don't see the logic in closing all courses. An already socially distanced sport. If Level 5 is really that severe and wants to attempt a drastic drop in covid cases then ban ALL sport.

They say the GAA is going to boost the morale of thousands, however only a couple of a hundred are actually gonna play the sport. Golf on the other hand will boost the morale of thousands of people who will actually be playing the sport. 100 times better for mental health; being outside, getting exercise, being with a friend (if playing with others was allowed). This is not anti-gaa, just pro-golf, and how I don't understand the logic in allowing one and not the other, and how a small win for some people will go a long way in making them happier and healthier.

A Shaved Duck?

DeanAustin wrote: »

I'm assuming that the government and NPHET have implemented the travel restriction because people travelling increases the chances of Covid spreading. That presumably holds true whether they are going to play golf or heading to an orgy. While the latter activity may represent a higher risk than playing golf, presumably both present a level of risk that government have deemed not worth it.

Not arguing against the travel restriction, if you can point to one piece of evidence that cases have been transmitted on the golf course regardless of the distance travelled I welcome it.

I think blindly following this governments logic is a road to the madhouse to be honest. Sure they cant even agree with NPHET and information is being leaked by all sides, its a farce and they are making it up as they go along.

DeanAustin

sheroman01 wrote: »

Unbelievably disappointed with this decision. Just don't see the logic in closing all courses. An already socially distanced sport. If Level 5 is really that severe and wants to attempt a drastic drop in covid cases then ban ALL sport.

They say the GAA is going to boost the morale of thousands, however only a couple of a hundred are actually gonna play the sport. Golf on the other hand will boost the morale of thousands of people who will actually be playing the sport. 100 times better for mental health; being outside, getting exercise, being with a friend (if playing with others was allowed). This is not anti-gaa, just pro-golf, and how I don't understand the logic in allowing one and not the other, and how a small win for some people will go a long way in making them happier and healthier.

Ah come on, there is logic. Probably a million people will watch GAA and enjoy it. It's a huge morale booster for anyone who follows GAA. So a million people or whatever enjoy it and you only have a few hundred/thousand moving around. The pay off is not the same for golf.

I don't like the decision, I don't agree with it but I see the logic.

tbayers

DeanAustin wrote: »

Ah come on, there is logic. Probably a million people will watch GAA and enjoy it. It's a huge morale booster for anyone who follows GAA. So a million people or whatever enjoy it and you only have a few hundred/thousand moving around. The pay off is not the same for golf.

I don't like the decision, I don't agree with it but I see the logic.

I think the point he is trying to make is two teams consisting of 30 players will be able to not only travel but actually come in close contact with each other. Yet we can't go for a game of golf! A total shambles!!

DeanAustin

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Not arguing against the travel restriction, if you can point to one piece of evidence that cases have been transmitted on the golf course regardless of the distance travelled I welcome it.

I think blindly following this governments logic is a road to the madhouse to be honest. Sure they cant even agree with NPHET and information is being leaked by all sides, its a farce and they are making it up as they go along.

I'm trusting that what they are advising us is right so I don't have data to hand to say whether anyone travelling to or from a course or playing has caused a single case of Covid. I wouldn't really expect them to have exact figures for how many cases every single activity has contributed to either. Lets be fair, no case of Covid exists in a vacuum anyway so it's hard to say that Activity x caused y cases of Covid.

Their clear strategy here is to limit the populations' movements. Banning golf will undoubtedly help achieve that aim.

I think government and NPHET should be questioned on their approach to stuff but they shouldn't be vilified for every single detail. It's a small sacrifice to give up 6 weeks of winter golf with everything else going on in the country.

Mr Mister

tbayers wrote: »

I think the point he is trying to make is two teams consisting of 30 players will be able to not only travel but actually come in close contact with each other. Yet we can't go for a game of golf! A total shambles!!

It will be more than 30.....there's subs, managers, physios, plus the bus driver. If the purpose is stopping the virus, I can't see how a million people watching it comes in to the equation, it should be solely down to risk level. Plus there certainly won't be a million people watching Louth vs Fermanagh in the Lory Meagher Cup this coming weekend