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Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

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    #782
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    CowboyTed wrote: »
    Mur,

    The Parks are Open, Beaches are Open, Hardware Shops are Open... How do we know they are all within 5km. At least Golf they can trace and see quite quickly...

    Golf is better than a walk in the park....

    Why were parks not banned? Why is B&Q open?

    I am asking about the consistency. That is my question.

    The government can't look at every single activity and manage the pandemic that way.

    They've decided to close all non-essential services/shops and keep essential ones, like B&Q, open. That makes sense. Maybe you could argue B&Q isn't essential but the government have deemed it so. Do I agree with this course of action? No. But it makes sense.

    Are people more likely to travel more than 5k to a golf course than a public park or beach. Of course they are. So it makes sense to close the golf courses. I don't agree with it, I don't like it but there is logic there.


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    #783
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    Local Area Man wrote: »
    Schools are essential.

    Golf is not.

    It's 6 weeks. In the winter. Virus is rampant.

    Do you have any clue how much money has already been lost? Do you think the Government is going to subsidise the loss? Its disingenuous to think six weeks of no golf is all this is. People will not pay next year because its ridiculous to waste that much money when the GUI couldn't even get the safest excersize on the land green listed. Not to mention the jobs lost as a result


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    #784
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    The government can't look at every single activity and manage the pandemic that way.

    They've decided to close all non-essential services/shops and keep essential ones, like B&Q, open. That makes sense. Maybe you could argue B&Q isn't essential but the government have deemed it so. Do I agree with this course of action? No. But it makes sense.

    Are people more likely to travel more than 5k to a golf course than a public park or beach. Of course they are. So it makes sense to close the golf courses. I don't agree with it, I don't like it but there is logic there.

    Yeah God Forbid the Sports minister take a look at something and take relevant factors into account. He must be so busy. And people are not more likely to travel for golf than go to the beach. More people went to the beach in one day during lockdown than golfed in a month in Ireland


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    #785
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    John Divney wrote: »
    The science is out on this, outdoors in such a setting the risk is zero. We don't have to imagine lads will be swapping spit on the tee box to justify saying there is some risk. There isn't.

    Please feel free to move the goalposts if you wish. As I said “Golf” is not zero risk, being out in a field by yourself is zero risk. Just because they both take place in similar open spaces does not make them the same.

    Science supports that the virus can live on surfaces so the use of bathrooms, touching of flags(we all know it happens), picking up lost golf balls, removing broke tees etc increases the risk of infecting people.

    People are told they shouldn’t do this but we all know it occurs. These events are low risk but not zero risk.


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    #786
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    John Divney wrote: »
    Yeah God Forbid the Sports minister take a look at something and take relevant factors into account. And people are not more likely to travel for golf than go to the beach. More people went to the beach in one day during lockdown than golfed in a month in Ireland

    The government and NPHET want to reduce cases. That's their aim. They believe the best way to do that is to limit people's movements and interactions with each other. That helps stop the spread obviously. So the measures will fall from that.

    Logically, you would divide things up between essential and non-essential and issue guidelines from there. Not sit down and go through every single sport and activity, evaluate the risks with each one and decide which can go ahead and which can't. They're managing a bloody pandemic here. Doing that would take God knows how long and end up with resentment from those sports that can't go ahead.

    This really isn't that big a deal. I don't like it, I don't agree with it but I'll go with it because I can see, in the bigger picture, what the government are trying to do here. It's a small sacrifice given the sacrifices other people are making and that other people are having forced upon them.


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    #787
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    Jordy Fancy Relaxation wrote: »
    Please feel free to move the goalposts if you wish. As I said “Golf” is not zero risk, being out in a field by yourself is zero risk. Just because they both take place in similar open spaces does not make them the same.

    Science supports that the virus can live on surfaces so the use of bathrooms, touching of flags(we all know it happens), picking up lost golf balls, removing broke tees etc increases the risk of infecting people.

    People are told they shouldn’t do this but we all know it occurs. These events are low risk but not zero risk.

    That's moving the goalposts. Getting a viral load high enough of another person outdoors on a golf course is as good as zero. Licking the toilets or the flag may, but its not a concern for the Government. It is obviously to control movement of people, just totally not justified.


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    #788
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    The government and NPHET want to reduce cases. That's their aim. They believe the best way to do that is to limit people's movements and interactions with each other. That helps stop the spread obviously. So the measures will fall from that.

    Logically, you would divide things up between essential and non-essential and issue guidelines from there. Not sit down and go through every single sport and activity, evaluate the risks with each one and decide which can go ahead and which can't. They're managing a bloody pandemic here. Doing that would take God knows how long and end up with resentment from those sports that can't go ahead.

    This really isn't that big a deal. I don't like it, I don't agree with it but I'll go with it because I can see, in the bigger picture, what the government are trying to do here. It's a small sacrifice given the sacrifices other people are making and that other people are having forced upon them.

    I honestly can't believe what I am reading. What on earth do you think they are doing then? There was a 48 hour dialogue between Sports Ireland and the GUI. Of course there is time there's nothing else for the Minister to do ffs except watch Horse racing. You keep saying its a small sacrifice, it isn't small its almost a total sacrifice for some.


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    #789
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    John Divney wrote: »
    I honestly can't believe what I am reading. What on earth do you think they are doing then? There was a 48 hour dialogue between Sports Ireland and the GUI. Of course there is time there's nothing else for the Minister to do ffs except watch Horse racing

    Do you think they have time to spend 48 hours discussing this with Equestrian Ireland, Darts Ireland, Gymnastics Ireland, Swim Ireland, Tiddlywinks Ireland, Gyms Ireland and every other sport and activity who can't see past their own noses?

    We're obviously not going to agree on this so I guess we'll leave it there.


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    #790
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    John Divney wrote: »
    That's moving the goalposts. Getting a viral load high enough of another person outdoors on a golf course is as good as zero. Licking the toilets or the flag may, but its not a concern for the Government. It is obviously to control movement of people, just totally not justified.

    Of course it’s primary focus is to control the movement of people, nobody is disputing that, I certainly didn’t.

    I disputed your point that “Golf is zero risk”. That is fundamentally incorrect. Golf isn’t zero risk and you attempted to conflate being outdoors in a similar space to a golf course as the same as playing golf. Thats a false equivalence.

    The risk is certainly low but to return to your original point, it’s not zero.


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    #791
    boardise
    Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭boardise


    CowboyTed wrote: »
    Million People watching one Game ???? Seriously...

    My objection is B & Q are open tomorrow.. Someone explain that. B & Q is inside, no contact tracing, physical transfer of items between bodies...

    Compare that to Golf... Seriously..

    Logic plays no part in these matters as far as I can see.
    I can go to a Co-Op up the road and shop indoors in the store but I can't go through a glass door to the garden centre which is outdoors.


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    #792
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,906 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    The government can't look at every single activity and manage the pandemic that way.

    They've decided to close all non-essential services/shops and keep essential ones, like B&Q, open. That makes sense. Maybe you could argue B&Q isn't essential but the government have deemed it so. Do I agree with this course of action? No. But it makes sense.

    Are people more likely to travel more than 5k to a golf course than a public park or beach. Of course they are. So it makes sense to close the golf courses. I don't agree with it, I don't like it but there is logic there.

    Have you see the exemptions for essential retail? 95% of shops will be able to open if they want


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    #793
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    Jordy Fancy Relaxation wrote: »
    Of course it’s primary focus is to control the movement of people, nobody is disputing that, I certainly didn’t.

    I disputed your point that “Golf is zero risk”. That is fundamentally incorrect. Golf isn’t zero risk and you attempted to conflate being outdoors in a similar space to a golf course as the same as playing golf. Thats a false equivalence.

    The risk is certainly low but to return to your original point, it’s not zero.

    Unlike shopping, school, GAA, it's zero risk from getting it without literally a freak occurrence. Whereas the others have no way to stop it from spreading due to proximity. We're going in circles, its not a big argument in the context of any decision


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    #794
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Do you think they have time to spend 48 hours discussing this with Equestrian Ireland, Darts Ireland, Gymnastics Ireland, Swim Ireland, Tiddlywinks Ireland, Gyms Ireland and every other sport and activity who can't see past their own noses?

    They have had eight months and one previous lockdown, unless there has been a change in the facts on the ground of these sports, I see your point as being ridiculous. Theres a whole ministry devoted to this, of course they have the time.


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    #795
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Have you see the exemptions for essential retail? 95% of shops will be able to open if they want

    Can't say I have to be honest. I understand that they've closed toy shops with the exception of click and collect so if they're doing that this close to Christmas, I'm assuming it isn't a free for all. But I haven't really looked into it.


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    #796
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    John Divney wrote: »
    Unlike shopping, school, GAA, it's zero risk from getting it without literally a freak occurrence. Whereas the others have no way to stop it from spreading due to proximity. We're going in circles, its not a big argument in the context of any decision

    Agree let's not go any further on it.

    All I'll finish on is that agree or disagree, the government are viewing the risk as non-zero, as negligible as it might be. They also look at resource allocation, that may also be negligible but again not zero.

    In order to control the movement of people further and effectively have one less thing to worry about and something which consume resources, they decided that golf was off the table.

    Nobody likes it but I understand it.


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    #797
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    John Divney wrote: »
    They have had eight months and one previous lockdown, unless there has been a change in the facts on the ground of these sports, I see your point as being ridiculous. Theres a whole ministry devoted to this, of course they have the time.

    Well right there is your problem. You think everyone's counter argument to you is ridiculous and lacking in logic. In your world, there will never be any question whether you're right or wrong.


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    #798
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    **** me this thread has gone to ****e in 2 pages. Three posters agreeing with each others every word, one a new reg.

    Sport Ireland or GUI?


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    #799
    boardise
    Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭boardise


    CowboyTed wrote: »
    Simple solution...

    Members Only... Contact tracing in effect. The Club make it very clear to the members that if the Garda call they will give the names and addresses of all people on the premise at the time..

    That is 5km sorted... Garda called to our course during last lockdown...

    Sorry CT -way too sensible for so-called 'authorities' (aka brainless twits) to go down that road.. .far more important to spread needless misery.
    The GUI must be the most pathetic advocates of all time. Absolute cast iron case for golf and they couldn't swing it. I'm disgusted beyond belief at this whole farce.


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    #800
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    One reply to the GUI was from a club saying they aren't going along with it, Cregmore GC in Galway


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    #801
    John Divney
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Well right there is your problem. You think everyone's counter argument to you is ridiculous and lacking in logic. In your world, there will never be any question whether you're right or wrong.

    Thats not fair mate, your argument was that Sports Ireland and the Government after 8 months of a pandemic didn't have time to talk to the stakeholders. If this is your opinion then the incompetence of this and the last Government is the worst in the countries history. They've had nothing but time and a previous lockdown to learn from. I can't believe anyone would make this point in good faith.


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    #802
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    John Divney wrote: »
    Thats not fair mate, your argument was that Sports Ireland and the Government after 8 months of a pandemic didn't have time to talk to the stakeholders. If this is your opinion then the incompetence of this and the last Government is the worst in the countries history. They've had nothing but time and a previous lockdown to learn from. I can't believe anyone would make this point in good faith.

    That wasn't my argument. My argument is that the government decided in the last few days to move to Level 5. I'll say this again - their aim is to reduce cases.

    They've decided the best way to do that is to limit people's movements. In that context, it makes sense to remove, as much as possible, the temptation for people to move around.

    They also don't have the time to spend two days discussing this with every sporting body. Could Sports Ireland have spent the last 8 months deciding the risk associated with each sport. Possibly and maybe they did but, at the end of the day, a decision like this was never going to done on a sport by sport basis because it'd cause confusion, resentment and would encourage people to break the guidelines issued. All of that would distract from their aim of reducing cases. Look at the bigger picture here.
    Hoboo wrote:
    **** me this thread has gone to ****e in 2 pages. Three posters agreeing with each others every word, one a new reg.

    Sport Ireland or GUI?

    Happens every time on here. Someone disagrees with the majority view so they must have an ulterior motive? Lazy.


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    #803
    BringBackMick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭BringBackMick


    Possibly the most pathetic government we have to date.

    Dare I saw.... give Mary Lou a whirl....it cannot get worse


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    #804
    Dayor Knight
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Dayor Knight


    Am very disappointed but I'll just have to suck it up. They had to go extreme to change behaviours. I'll miss a couple of games next week, but how much would we play in November anyway, I suppose.
    Still, I joined a club within 5k and now I can't play even when the limit for exercise is 5k.
    C'est la vie. Let's hope we get the virus numbers down over the next few weeks.


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    #805
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    Dayor Knight wrote: »
    Am very disappointed but I'll just have to suck it up. They had to go extreme to change behaviours. I'll miss a couple of games next week, but how much would we play in November anyway, I suppose.
    Still, I joined a club within 5k and now I can't play even when the limit for exercise is 5k.
    C'est la vie. Let's hope we get the virus numbers down over the next few weeks.

    Hopefully we're back in 6 weeks.

    I'm even more disappointed as I was due to play my first round in Mt Juilet on Monday.


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    #806
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Happens every time on here. Someone disagrees with the majority view so they must have an ulterior motive? Lazy.

    Yes, suddenly there's 4 pages of disagreement, after 3 days of agreement, including a fresh registration beating the same drum. Whilst all agreeing with each other.

    Aye, coincidence.


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    #807
    CowboyTed
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    The government can't look at every single activity and manage the pandemic that way.

    They've decided to close all non-essential services/shops and keep essential ones, like B&Q, open. That makes sense. Maybe you could argue B&Q isn't essential but the government have deemed it so. Do I agree with this course of action? No. But it makes sense.

    Are people more likely to travel more than 5k to a golf course than a public park or beach. Of course they are. So it makes sense to close the golf courses. I don't agree with it, I don't like it but there is logic there.

    Dry Cleaners are open... Really stretching essential....

    What I am saying is Golf has contact tracing the Park has none... That doesn't come across to me as logical...

    Sorry I don't think Third Level Students being dragged back to University to do Practicals in a tight lab environment makes any sense... The University absolutely killed Galway... They are the basis for the major spread in the city and they are continuing with having them in college...

    Sorry that totally infuriates me, Golf or no Golf


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    #808
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,823 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Yes, suddenly there's 4 pages of disagreement, after 3 days of agreement, including a fresh registration beating the same drum. Whilst all agreeing with each other.

    Aye, coincidence.

    Wish I worked for Sport Ireland or the GUI rather than the rather dull industry I work in. Wish I even agreed with the decision that was made today.

    Not everyone is out to get you...


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    #809
    Glebee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,648 ✭✭✭Glebee


    BringBackMick wrote: »
    Possibly the most pathetic government we have to date.

    Dare I saw.... give Mary Lou a whirl....it cannot get worse

    Want to bet?


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    #810
    CowboyTed
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Wish I worked for Sport Ireland or the GUI rather than the rather dull industry I work in. Wish I even agreed with the decision that was made today.

    Not everyone is out to get you...

    I think they could have divided sports into categories quite easily...

    Golf is in with Fishing, Hunting, Running, Cycling,...

    It is non contact outside..

    Hunting, Angling, Running and Cycling are all allowed...

    This is about consistency...


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    #811
    benji79
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭benji79


    John Divney wrote: »
    One reply to the GUI was from a club saying they aren't going along with it, Cregmore GC in Galway

    Worst thing they could do. Right or wrong decision regardless if you don’t follow it things will get a lot worse and the lockdown could be stretched into new year.

    Go along and at least courses might be open for a few Xmas comps or something

    The December weather has been decent last couple years so could be something to look forward to , make the best of it


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