Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

mighty magpie

prawnsambo wrote: »

Certainly every club that uses Master Scoreboard and Golfraffix's system plus a couple more like IG would. Last I heard, HowDidIDo were working on adding the facility, but no sign of that yet. Latest version of the app on Google Play seems to be from last year.

HDID i do have a beta version that our club were asked to trial over the weekend.
Worked well with score input and results being published saturday evening. Some chancer thought it would be funny to enter a birdie birdie par birdie start, 57 points, 23 handicap. Club should cut him on badness.

prawnsambo

mighty magpie wrote: »

HDID i do have a beta version that our club were asked to trial over the weekend.
Worked well with score input and results being published saturday evening. Some chancer thought it would be funny to enter a birdie birdie par birdie start, 57 points, 23 handicap. Club should cut him on badness.

That's good news. Assuming it passes beta, it should be ready in time.

bustercherry

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's not a 'couple of comps'. It's the loss of all competition, green fee and society income since 21st March. It will now be over a quarter of a year of lost income by the time that income starts flowing in again.

It is in the context to the amendment to the phase 2 guidelines though and only in the context of a members owned club whereby they use the competion fees for operating expenses.

No one is disputing the other stuff but the hysteria about a club folding because lost income from member only closed comps is a bit of an overreaction.

thecomedian

It’s not so much folding but the much needed funds.
5/6 thousand is still a lot

CalamariFritti

No one is saying hysterically clubs will be folding. But on the other hand you cant just dismiss that preparations were made and that an additional shortfall will have to accounted for. Nobody is going nuts here saying GUI pushes clubs into bankruptcy. All people are saying is that they were let down by their governing body. And they were.

prawnsambo

CalamariFritti wrote: »

No one is saying hysterically clubs will be folding. But on the other hand you cant just dismiss that preparations were made and that an additional shortfall will have to accounted for. Nobody is going nuts here saying GUI pushes clubs into bankruptcy. All people are saying is that they were let down by their governing body. And they were.

It also hits the stuff at the margins. Clubs might have had plans for improvements or ground works that may now be put off until next year.

bustercherry

prawnsambo wrote: »

It also hits the stuff at the margins. Clubs might have had plans for improvements or ground works that may now be put off until next year.

Why would any club in their right mind plan capital expenditure projects of member competition fees? Covid or no covid, that "should" never happen otherwise the club is not being managed correctly.

prawnsambo

bustercherry wrote: »

Why would any club in their right mind plan capital expenditure projects of member competition fees? Covid or no covid, that "should" never happen otherwise the club is not being managed correctly.

That's not what I said. And none of the things I mentioned were capital expenditure.

GreeBo

Our plan was to verbally agree your score with your playing partners, print their name and if you had more than 24 points in 12 holes, take a photo and submit via email.

bustercherry

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's not what I said. And none of the things I mentioned were capital expenditure.

Sorry improvements would be capex.

Again I keep coming back to the point, I'm pointing out that loss of "member comp revenue" for "member owned clubs" over the next 3 weeks will hardly be the tipping point. All the rest of the points are valid in the grand scheme of things but not what was being debated.

bustercherry

thecomedian wrote: »

It’s not so much folding but the much needed funds.
5/6 thousand is still a lot

Hypothetically 6 "closed member comps" gone for a club (some may have more and opens/semi-opens don't count). Looking at profit generated of 1k per comp.

Say average comp fee is 5 euro and (prudently) a third of the comp fees are redistributed in prizes but I'd argue more due to classes etc... - you are looking at needing 300 entries per comp to get those figures.

Even without the Covid restrictions on the timesheets (8 minute intervals), you would be looking at comps timesheets running >10 hours to get 300 out? Someone correct the math please :pac:

That is a big member comp to run twice a week and you need a big member base to start with. Those aren't the sort of member owned clubs that would be risk.

CalamariFritti

I don't understand why we are now getting bogged down into penny pinching. Whether its 3k or 5k or 6k doesn't change the fact that it was a poor show by the GUI and they knew it or else they wouldnt have come out with it late on Friday evening.

My club runs a competition every day of the week bar Saturday. Ladies, long handicaps, seniors, four balls, mens & ladies, mens. It wasn't going to be an insignificant amount in any case.

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I don't understand why we are now getting bogged down into penny pinching. Whether its 3k or 5k or 6k doesn't change the fact that it was a poor show by the GUI and they knew it or else they wouldnt have come out with it late on Friday evening.

My club runs a competition every day of the week bar Saturday. Ladies, long handicaps, seniors, four balls, mens & ladies, mens. It wasn't going to be an insignificant amount in any case.

It was a cowardly way to do it there is no doubt.

thecomedian

bustercherry wrote: »

Hypothetically 6 "closed member comps" gone for a club (some may have more and opens/semi-opens don't count). Looking at profit generated of 1k per comp.

Say average comp fee is 5 euro and (prudently) a third of the comp fees are redistributed in prizes but I'd argue more due to classes etc... - you are looking at needing 300 entries per comp to get those figures.

Even without the Covid restrictions on the timesheets (8 minute intervals), you would be looking at comps timesheets running >10 hours to get 300 out? Someone correct the math please :pac:

That is a big member comp to run twice a week and you need a big member base to start with. Those aren't the sort of member owned clubs that would be risk.

Tomorrow there is well over 100 out on the course. That would be the normal day for the midweek comp. take 100 of them playing a comp at 7/8 euro a go. I’d hope the same for Saturday and Sunday.
Prizes are not that much where I am about 100/150 max

The fact that they are running a fun scramble comp this weekend means that they could really do with the money.

CalamariFritti

Exactly wrote: »

It was a cowardly way to do it there is no doubt.

Exactly :eek:

Kingswood Rover

One thing i think a lot of clubs may consider keeping is the requirement for people to book a every time they want to play. it seems that people who may like a game but on their own may be availing of games more because they have now know they have someone to play with. This will also help the quieter competition days at clubs where people just turn up enter and play leaving time sheet very blank looking thus dissuading people wanting to play but unwilling to risk travelling and being left on their own.

Raisins

In principle the expert group have lumped golf competition into re opening competitions for all sports. Does that not mean it’s unlikely there’ll even be a resumption of golf competition on 29th June? There’s no way they’ll approve GAA, rugby, soccer competition on that date in the start of phase 3.

Whatever about this mess so far I hope the GUI are working around the clock to get comps running for phase 3. I’ve a bad feeling they’ll only approve closed competitions but opens will have to wait or something stupid like that.

CalamariFritti

Thats what it sounds like but when you have two 'old-school' beaurocratic entitles like Sports Ireland and GUI lock horns you'll probably never know the real reason unless you're on the inside. Could be money, could be politics, could be personal, could be what they say it is, could be anything. The only thing I'm almost certain it is not is COVID19.

gypsy79

Raisins wrote: »

Whatever about this mess so far I hope the GUI are working around the clock to get comps running for phase 3. I’ve a bad feeling they’ll only approve closed competitions but opens will have to wait or something stupid like that.

I would settle for that at this stage

RGS

Looks like the GUI roadmap is now in conflict with the Guidelines issued by Failte Ireland today for the reopening of Hotels and Guesthouses.

They are indicating tee times must be at 15 minute intervals.(page 24 of the booklet)
https://failtecdn.azureedge.net/failteireland/Guidelines-for-Re-opening-Hotels-and-Guesthouses.pdf

Surely the operation of golf courses is a matter for the GUI and Sports Ireland not Failte Ireland.

So we could have two different regimes depending on where the course is located. Hotel run courses 15 min tee intervals. Other golf courses 10 minute intervals by 10 August.

There is a serious lack of inter departmental discussion in this country.

Golf is my Game

RGS wrote: »

So we could have two different regimes depending on where the course is located. Hotel run courses 15 min tee intervals. Other golf courses 10 minute intervals by 10 August.

There is a serious lack of inter departmental discussion in this country.

Possibly. But I think if theyre not talking about such things as consistency in minutes of gaps between golfers, a topic so trivial as probably not even worth the talk, then it might be a good sign. Theres more important stuff to be getting right at the moment.

GreeBo

RGS wrote: »

Looks like the GUI roadmap is now in conflict with the Guidelines issued by Failte Ireland today for the reopening of Hotels and Guesthouses.

They are indicating tee times must be at 15 minute intervals.(page 24 of the booklet)
https://failtecdn.azureedge.net/failteireland/Guidelines-for-Re-opening-Hotels-and-Guesthouses.pdf

Surely the operation of golf courses is a matter for the GUI and Sports Ireland not Failte Ireland.

I'd guess thats the difference between members and guests.
The contact tracing group would be a lot smaller for members of a golf club (i.e. its the same group of people always) compared to more casual, resort golfers/guests.

Again, this is all from a generic, regulatory point of view.

DuckSlice

How will clubs tackle the payment of comp fees? Not many people carrying cash now. No problem for bigger clubs, but there is lots of clubs that don’t have a person in the clubhouse all the time and usually the fee is 6/7/8 Euro.

Is there a system for contactless payment that can be set to a certain fee then reset after each payment?

mike12

etxp wrote: »

How will clubs tackle the payment of comp fees? Not many people carrying cash now. No problem for bigger clubs, but there is lots of clubs that don’t have a person in the clubhouse all the time and usually the fee is 6/7/8 Euro.

Is there a system for contactless payment that can be set to a certain fee then reset after each payment?

Most of the booking apps have a purse system that's the way we pay for comps.

You could use revelout.

CalamariFritti

In the real world handing cash doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. See supermarkets and now shops. And cash has always been dirty anyway.

However for the sake of formulating a ‘safe’ policy one could stick the cash in an envelope with their name on it. And clubs could let that envelope sit for 24 hours.

Same with score cards.

Which will only defer the problem elsewhere I guess. Eventually people will run out of the exact amount of change and will have to go to the supermarket or bank for it. Someone’s got to handle cash.

PARlance

CalamariFritti wrote: »

In the real world handing cash doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. See supermarkets and now shops. And cash has always been dirty anyway.

However for the sake of formulating a ‘safe’ policy one could stick the cash in an envelope with their name on it. And clubs could let that envelope sit for 24 hours.

Same with score cards.

Which will only defer the problem elsewhere I guess. Eventually people will run out of the exact amount of change and will have to go to the supermarket or bank for it. Someone’s got to handle cash.

There's no logic to a lot of things these days. You go into a supermarket, you are encouraged to tap for payment and then the cashier still hands you a paper receipt... same cashier has probably scanned hundreds, if not thousands, of items that other people have touched.

All this while scorecards have created a great conundrum for golf clubs.

It's daft when compared but these are the times we're living through and Golf is privileged in a sense, so we've to be extra sensitive.

Poker Face

Anyones club starting their singles matchplay and fourball matchplay before June 29th. I know of a club doing their draw at the weekend and you can play from Monday.

youcancallmeal

Poker Face wrote: »

Anyones club starting their singles matchplay and fourball matchplay before June 29th. I know of a club doing their draw at the weekend and you can play from Monday.

I was hoping they might do that in our place but at the moment Saturday is only day you can play 18, every other day is 9 only

FixdePitchmark

I know it is a global pandemic - nobody has anywhere to go - who cares and all that.

But jaysus - lads have forgot how to get around a course as a 4 ball. Nightmare stuff.

Maybe the general lack of urgency or care in society is seen in courses now.

I know, I know - relax where have you got to go anyway. But for people who like and play golf - there should be a natural flow to the game.

No one cares.

Golfhead65

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know it is a global pandemic - nobody has anywhere to go - who cares and all that.

But jaysus - lads have forgot how to get around a course as a 4 ball. Nightmare stuff.

Maybe the general lack of urgency or care in society is seen in courses now.

I know, I know - relax where have you got to go anyway. But for people who like and play golf - there should be a natural flow to the game.

No one cares.

Not too bad in our club, when we were 3 balls it was 3hr 15 ish now with 4 balls it's 3hr 50 ish..This morning my 4 ball teed off at 8:54am and finished at 12:37 so not bad