Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

FixdePitchmark

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Not too bad in our club, when we were 3 balls it was 3hr 15 ish now with 4 balls it's 3hr 50 ish..This morning my 4 ball teed off at 8:54am and finished at 12:37 so not bad

In fairness - I think i just got use to the 3 balls.

Looks like pressure coming off course a little - when not the weekend. I might stay away at weekends. Because can only play twice a week anyway.

twounderpar

Are there any plans to reduce the 14 minute gap for fourballs back to the regular 9 minute interval.

morrga

Are there any plans to take the flagsticks out?

blackbox

morrga wrote: »

Are there any plans to take the flagsticks out?

Flagsticks don't bother me but I'd like the bunker rakes back!

HighLine

blackbox wrote: »

Flagsticks don't bother me but I'd like the bunker rakes back!

Get your club to implement the local rule for placing in bunkers. This ensures an even playing field with afternoon players not having to play out of footprints. And it will still be qualifying for handicap purposes.

GolfNut33

HighLine wrote: »

Get your club to implement the local rule for placing in bunkers. This ensures an even playing field with afternoon players not having to play out of footprints. And it will still be qualifying for handicap purposes.

Favours the higher HC players though.

Seve OB

GolfNut33 wrote: »

Favours the higher HC players though.

it favours everyone the same

slingerz

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know it is a global pandemic - nobody has anywhere to go - who cares and all that.

But jaysus - lads have forgot how to get around a course as a 4 ball. Nightmare stuff.

Maybe the general lack of urgency or care in society is seen in courses now.

I know, I know - relax where have you got to go anyway. But for people who like and play golf - there should be a natural flow to the game.

No one cares.

At our club I think the larger intervals between groups will stay after covid. Everyone seems to be happier with the gaps and you never find yourself waiting or having balls rained down on you. Timesheet is busy but everyone still gets out

Golf is my Game

I think the longer gaps are a good thing as long as your club can take it. If you have too many members for that, then it will lead to lads getting bummed about not getting a slot. Golf has just slowed down, so with tighter gaps there is going to be bunching to the slowest on the course and lads giving about about being held up. Most I see bitching about it, are probably just about as slow themselves, but just not on this round. People going well, or trying some new move, or some nonsense gimmick like aimpoint or looking at putts by holding up the putter and **** will be slower. So the whinger might be moaning about being held up today because his score is a mes and he just wants to move on, but another day he would be the slow one and not give a **** about the rest backing up behind him. People immitating the pros and longer and more difficult course is the real cause of slow play. And its not going to change. Get used to it. Andthe bigger gaps makes it more pleasureable for all where in general, at least you keep moving as theirs minutes between the groups to concertina the field a little without having to wait on tees.

twounderpar

I don't think it will suit too many clubs to continue with the 14 minute gap instead of the 9 minute gap. It means that in every 2hrs and
6 mins you will you will get 36 players on the timesheet instead of 56. Over the course of a day from 7a.m. to 3.26p.m that would mean
80 golfers less on the sheet.

That's going to cause difficulties for lots of clubs.I presume the health experts will have the final say on this.

Golfgraffix

twounderpar wrote: »

Are there any plans to reduce the 14 minute gap for fourballs back to the regular 9 minute interval.

Would you believe that 4 balls at 9 minutes is slower than 4 balls at 10 minutes. I will try an dig out the numbers behind it

finglashoop

The biggest hold up i can see is that the people doing the holding up dont let anyone through.

I always wait for first green to be cleared before teeing off.

Golf is my Game

Sure would. The bigger the gaps, the faster the round.
Thats why 14 mins is so nice. If you can get a slot of course. The smaller the gap, the more people the slowest group will slow up behind them. So the average round time reduces. The bigger the gaps, the less effect the slowcoaches have, and so the quicker players get around without being held up. So average round is quicker. Take the extreme - 1 hour gaps. Everyone would get around with no one being held up, so rounds are at their quickest for everyone.

almostover

Golf is my Game wrote: »

I think the longer gaps are a good thing as long as your club can take it. If you have too many members for that, then it will lead to lads getting bummed about not getting a slot. Golf has just slowed down, so with tighter gaps there is going to be bunching to the slowest on the course and lads giving about about being held up. Most I see bitching about it, are probably just about as slow themselves, but just not on this round. People going well, or trying some new move, or some nonsense gimmick like aimpoint or looking at putts by holding up the putter and **** will be slower. So the whinger might be moaning about being held up today because his score is a mes and he just wants to move on, but another day he would be the slow one and not give a **** about the rest backing up behind him. People immitating the pros and longer and more difficult course is the real cause of slow play. And its not going to change. Get used to it. Andthe bigger gaps makes it more pleasureable for all where in general, at least you keep moving as theirs minutes between the groups to concertina the field a little without having to wait on tees.

I'm all for keeping up the pace of play but some lads at our club are more interested in what time they get around in rather than their scores. There's a group that somehow always end up being my Sunday morning 3 ball and they are lightning fast but are just bunting the ball around the place. No practice swings, reading of putts, lining up. Just step up and go. And then be up the *ss of the group in front. It's taking us 3hrs 5mins to play a 3 ball with 14 mins spacing and the lads are on top of us by the turn every time. Were not slow but we at least care where our shots go!

mjsc1970

almostover wrote: »

I'm all for keeping up the pace of play but some lads at our club are more interested in what time they get around in rather than their scores. There's a group that somehow always end up being my Sunday morning 3 ball and they are lightning fast but are just bunting the ball around the place. No practice swings, reading of putts, lining up. Just step up and go. And then be up the *ss of the group in front. It's taking us 3hrs 5mins to play a 3 ball with 14 mins spacing and the lads are on top of us by the turn every time. Were not slow but we at least care where our shots go!

For everyone's sake, those lads should really aim to be 1st off first thing in the morning. Then everyone enjoys their game.

Golf is my Game

There is a strange superiority complex from fast players that I dont think they really have right to which is assuming they are the right speed and slower players are the wrong speed, and so, should slower players should get out of their way, play at a time of the day that doesnt suit them like first in the morning, that they are responsible for other lads not enjoying their game, and they should change their style of play to those of the faster player.
Theres a fair few faster lads too who if they have score going will slow themselves down too, look for balls giving themselves a very generous benefit of the doubt on the time allowed to do so, and are happy to blame being helled up on the reason for their blowing a good score - even though their well capable of blowing it all on their own.

GolfNut33

Seve OB wrote: »

it favours everyone the same

I disagree. I'm seeing high lads sitting the ball up nice and high in bunkers. Then getting out easily where normally they'd really struggle unless the lie was good.

Low lads will always be better out of bunkers than high lads from whichever lie. I hate playing golf when you're allowed pick the ball up. Good scores don't count. That's just my opinion.

willabur

punishment for being in a bunker shouldn't mean you cannot get out of the bunker. Higher skilled player will produce a better shot more often regardless of the lie

blue note

finglashoop wrote: »

The biggest hold up i can see is that the people doing the holding up dont let anyone through.

I always wait for first green to be cleared before teeing off.

The thing i never understand about calling guys through speeding things up is this...

On a Sunday comp where things are moving slow, essentially everyone is moving at the pace of the group in front. If that group is playing at a 4hr 30min round, so is everyone waiting behind them.

If they call someone through, that's great for the group they call through. However, you'll always end up waiting a little when you call a group through, whatever way you do it. It'll add a few minutes to their round. And those few minutes will be added to the rounds of everyone who doesn't get called through.

This is just relating to people playing slowly, not those looking for a ball not calling people through.

And I also have a problem with some people's belief that the whole course should be playing at their speed golf pace. Slow play is unacceptable. But if the group ahead is moving along at a good pace then don't be trying to make them feel under pressure to hurry up.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

The thing i never understand about calling guys through speeding things up is this...

On a Sunday comp where things are moving slow, essentially everyone is moving at the pace of the group in front. If that group is playing at a 4hr 30min round, so is everyone waiting behind them.

If they call someone through, that's great for the group they call through. However, you'll always end up waiting a little when you call a group through, whatever way you do it. It'll add a few minutes to their round. And those few minutes will be added to the rounds of everyone who doesn't get called through.

This is just relating to people playing slowly, not those looking for a ball not calling people through.

And I also have a problem with some people's belief that the whole course should be playing at their speed golf pace. Slow play is unacceptable. But if the group ahead is moving along at a good pace then don't be trying to make them feel under pressure to hurry up.

Then you call through the next group through aswell.
Anytime there is daylight in front of you and someone behind you, you should call them through, even if that means calling through 3-4 groups.

I've played behind groups that are have lost 2 holes after 5, but will refuse to let more than 1 group through, its shameful.

blue note

GreeBo wrote: »

Then you call through the next group through aswell.
Anytime there is daylight in front of you and someone behind you, you should call them through, even if that means calling through 3-4 groups.

I've played behind groups that are have lost 2 holes after 5, but will refuse to let more than 1 group through, its shameful.

Put it this way, if you call 5 groups through, you might be adding 25 minutes to your round. And ultimately 25 minutes to all the groups a bit further back. And the fifth group you've called through will save time on their holes after you called them through, but will have lost 20 minutes waiting for you to rejoin the play after calling the first 4 groups through. It might not even benefit them that you called everyone through.

And they might have been following the rule to do that. Roughly every three holes they've fallen behind the group in front and called the next group through.

You could actually multiply it out and see how much time was saved letting groups through and how much time was lost with everyone waiting for you to rejoin. I would say very often calling groups through, particularly later in a round wastes more time than it saves.

I think we should all remember that golfers come in all shapes and sizes and ages too. Some older members might not be able to move as fast, might take a few extra shots in the round, etc. Some people need to cop themselves on and hurry up, but some are perfectly considerate in their behaviour but just can't play faster than slow. I still want those guys in my club.

On a quiet day it works fine. On a choc a block day if there's a group 10 slots in front of me calling groups through it's just adding time to my round. But on a busy day I don't think people really think of how much sense it makes. I think they are just familiar with the rule and think that if people would just follow it, it would improve things. I reckon it can often make the problem worse.

finglashoop

blue note wrote: »

Put it this way, if you call 5 groups through, you might be adding 25 minutes to your round. And ultimately 25 minutes to all the groups a bit further back. And the fifth group you've called through will save time on their holes after you called them through, but will have lost 20 minutes waiting for you to rejoin the play after calling the first 4 groups through. It might not even benefit them that you called everyone through.

And they might have been following the rule to do that. Roughly every three holes they've fallen behind the group in front and called the next group through.

You could actually multiply it out and see how much time was saved letting groups through and how much time was lost with everyone waiting for you to rejoin. I would say very often calling groups through, particularly later in a round wastes more time than it saves.

I think we should all remember that golfers come in all shapes and sizes and ages too. Some older members might not be able to move as fast, might take a few extra shots in the round, etc. Some people need to cop themselves on and hurry up, but some are perfectly considerate in their behaviour but just can't play faster than slow. I still want those guys in my club.

On a quiet day it works fine. On a choc a block day if there's a group 10 slots in front of me calling groups through it's just adding time to my round. But on a busy day I don't think people really think of how much sense it makes. I think they are just familiar with the rule and think that if people would just follow it, it would improve things. I reckon it can often make the problem worse.

If they arent keeping up with the group ahead and lose a hole they should let the group behind through at that stage.In theory the next group aftershould be another 10 mins behind.

When they dont everyone stacks up behind them and to let someone through at that stage is pointless.

Ive played with older members who may move slowly but keep up with the group ahead. Ive also played badly and lost balls etc but would be letting someone you are holding up play through at the earliest opportunity

Raisins

I wish course rangers were the norm especially in comps. One on the front and one on the back. If a ranger was on the 6th tee saying hey lads you’re 20 mins behind standard target time and you’ve lost two holes that would give just the right prod to keep moving. If the speed merchants knew the rangers were there then they might check out of their crusades to police the course. There’s a lot of frustration when one group is holding up the course and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.

blue note

finglashoop wrote: »

If they arent keeping up with the group ahead and lose a hole they should let the group behind through at that stage.In theory the next group aftershould be another 10 mins behind.

When they dont everyone stacks up behind them and to let someone through at that stage is pointless.

Ive played with older members who may move slowly but keep up with the group ahead. Ive also played badly and lost balls etc but would be letting someone you are holding up play through at the earliest opportunity

I've played when older, bad golfers who were fast players. But I've also played when people who just aren't able to get about quickly any more. They're doing things right, but he body isn't able to walk as fast, bend down as quickly, take clubs out of the bag as quickly. Both types exist. Most people who are slow are slow because of their behaviour, not their bodies. But both exist.

And bunching happens very quickly. It's all well and good saying in theory the next group should be 10 minutes behind, but in reality if a group is calling someone through the group immediately after them is probably right behind them.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

Put it this way, if you call 5 groups through, you might be adding 25 minutes to your round. And ultimately 25 minutes to all the groups a bit further back. And the fifth group you've called through will save time on their holes after you called them through, but will have lost 20 minutes waiting for you to rejoin the play after calling the first 4 groups through. It might not even benefit them that you called everyone through.

And they might have been following the rule to do that. Roughly every three holes they've fallen behind the group in front and called the next group through.

You could actually multiply it out and see how much time was saved letting groups through and how much time was lost with everyone waiting for you to rejoin. I would say very often calling groups through, particularly later in a round wastes more time than it saves.

I think we should all remember that golfers come in all shapes and sizes and ages too. Some older members might not be able to move as fast, might take a few extra shots in the round, etc. Some people need to cop themselves on and hurry up, but some are perfectly considerate in their behaviour but just can't play faster than slow. I still want those guys in my club.

On a quiet day it works fine. On a choc a block day if there's a group 10 slots in front of me calling groups through it's just adding time to my round. But on a busy day I don't think people really think of how much sense it makes. I think they are just familiar with the rule and think that if people would just follow it, it would improve things. I reckon it can often make the problem worse.

Thats why you call them through early though, if you wait until the entire course is piled up waiting for you, then its too late.

I dont think I have ever seen people being called through making things worse (unless of course you call people through on a difficult par 3 or something silly like that)
Wait until a par 4 or 5, hit your drives and start walking. As soon as the next group is on the tee, let them hit and stand out of the way The impact to you is minimal and by definition, you have just reset the gap behind you, so the group who are now behind you should be 8-9 mins behind.

If you are slow then too bad if it adds 25 minutes to your round, if you do it properly it wont add anything to the people behind or at worst will minimise it.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

And bunching happens very quickly. It's all well and good saying in theory the next group should be 10 minutes behind, but in reality if a group is calling someone through the group immediately after them is probably right behind them.

It takes 1 group to be 10 minutes slower than the next group for bunching to happen, thats not "quickly" imo, you can have each player in a 3 ball lose a ball and still only lose 9 mins.

Again, if the course is all caught up behind you, then you left it too late to call through.

finglashoop

blue note wrote: »

I've played when older, bad golfers who were fast players. But I've also played when people who just aren't able to get about quickly any more. They're doing things right, but he body isn't able to walk as fast, bend down as quickly, take clubs out of the bag as quickly. Both types exist. Most people who are slow are slow because of their behaviour, not their bodies. But both exist.

And bunching happens very quickly. It's all well and good saying in theory the next group should be 10 minutes behind, but in reality if a group is calling someone through the group immediately after them is probably right behind them.

Bunching only happens when the group causing it wont release the pressure backing up by not letting people through early enough.

Its common sense and courtesy.

And to be perfectly honest physical ability to move about the course is not the major cause of slow play.

willabur

the problem is alot of the time is it just takes a few ignorant lads to goose it all up.
I put my name down on timesheet in my place last week. There were 3 other names on the sheet that I didn't know. When I arrived to the tee box two of them were there but told me they didn't want to play with me (or the other guy) that they were in a hurry to finish and get to work. They were prickish about it aswell.
Said I'd leave them at it, last thing I wanted was to spend 4 hours in the company of a pair of assholes. Turns out the 4th fella was a gent and we had a great time together. But all the way around we were stuck behind the two boys. They searched for balls on every hole, kept leaving bags in the wrong place - at one stage they had a confrontation with another group over right of way on the course.

finglashoop

willabur wrote: »

the problem is alot of the time is it just takes a few ignorant lads to goose it all up.
I put my name down on timesheet in my place last week. There were 3 other names on the sheet that I didn't know. When I arrived to the tee box two of them were there but told me they didn't want to play with me (or the other guy) that they were in a hurry to finish and get to work. They were prickish about it aswell.
Said I'd leave them at it, last thing I wanted was to spend 4 hours in the company of a pair of assholes. Turns out the 4th fella was a gent and we had a great time together. But all the way around we were stuck behind the two boys. They searched for balls on every hole, kept leaving bags in the wrong place - at one stage they had a confrontation with another group over right of way on the course.

Jaysus

Ignorant and slow

blue note

GreeBo wrote: »

Wait until a par 4 or 5, hit your drives and start walking. As soon as the next group is on the tee, let them hit and stand out of the way The impact to you is minimal and by definition, you have just reset the gap behind you, so the group who are now behind you should be 8-9 mins behind.

How is that impact minimal? Fair enough you won't delay the first group playing through by doing that. But once they walk through you won't be able to hit your second shot until they've cleared the green. In the meantime the group behind them will have surely finished the previous hole (if not they'll be more than a hole behind the group they were following). So they'll be on the tee waiting for you to clear when you're playing your second. So immediately you're in a situation where, if you're slow, you're holding up the group behind you.

If you wait for the group in front of you to get a bit of distance ahead before letting the next group behind you through, everyone behind them will be catching up with each other and bunching. Then the next time you call someone through, if you do it in a similar manner, the group following them will be on the tee waiting for you to hit your second before the group ahead has even reached the green. And then you're in a situation where the groups you let through will benefit from it from the point that you leave them through. And the groups behind will suffer for it.

Players playing a different paces is a problem, but definitely not one with an easy fix. I don't think calling groups through helps on the very busy days unless you're looking for a ball or the like because I don't see how what I've outlined above isn't the case. And from experience, I've been a couple of groups back from the slow one in the past and exactly what I've outlined has happened. The slow group lets others through every few holes and we all end up waiting while they rejoin play. If I'm close enough to the top it's nice to get the clear run after you're called through, but if you're not you'll end up chatting to the next group on a tee box waiting for the fairway to clear.