Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

Golfhead65

almostover wrote: »

The 'strategy' if you could label it as such is beyond useless. Golfers are being denied access to a safe sport and a whole myriad of other illogical restrictions have been foisted upon us. My biggest issue is that any 'living with covid strategy' should have revolved around transparent data based decision making. For example, have a review on the 1st Monday of every month. If the incidence rate is <w, death rate <x, hospital capacity >y and ICU capacity >z then we move to the restriction level that corresponds to those values. Simple, transparent, clear decision making. No pandering to lobby groups on one extreme and zero COVID proponents on the other extreme. Makes communication a cinch too.

Instead what we have is nothing short of a communication shambles. 'Era sure we will see what the craic is in a few weeks like'. As if the decision being made are pertaining to where will we go for a pint on Saturday night, which in any case is now outlawed.

Golf too would benefit from this clarity. At this present juncture golf club member are in the dark. We might be back in April, it could be June. No information on what drives those decisions at the highest level. This government must take serious responsibility for the waning of the resolve of the general population. There's no strategy for us to follow and human nature is dictating that in this vacuum devoid of any leadership that people are taking decisions into their own hands.

Agree in theory but they can massage the figures to do as they want.. Eg 3 deaths in March.. 23 in Feb and 6 in Jan.. This is what we see every day. Where they get the figures from is beyond belief

ForeRight

In the Indo today. These are the leaks I like to see.

Kingswood Rover

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Agree in theory but they can massage the figures to do as they want.. Eg 3 deaths in March.. 23 in Feb and 6 in Jan.. This is what we see every day. Where they get the figures from is beyond belief

WHO guidelines

"A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma)"

Once Co vid is a contributing factor its noted on the Death Cert. From what i have read the rationale being for Population Surveillance purposes which makes sense as this is a new disease in humans.

opinionated3

ForeRight wrote: »

In the Indo today. These are the leaks I like to see.





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The hilarious thing about that article is lumping golf and tennis in with the gaa. Not a hope in hell inter county teams will refrain from contact trainingðŸ˜

blue note

Senior intercounty gaa. So to look at Dublin since it's the one I've played in, there are 9 adult hurling divisions and 11 football. With about 12 teams in each, that makes about 240 teams. I would guess that there at far more kids teams than adult, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are 750 teams in Dublin alone. And from those 750 teams, they're talking about allowing two of them back. I think only Cork has more teams than Dublin, but nationwide it would probably be the equivalent of letting something like 1% of teams back to non contact training. So roughly the equivalent of letting a golf club open in each province in Ireland. Or if a golf club has 400 members allowing one fourball back.

Of course, let's ignore this sort of talk and pretend that they're being treated the exact same.

benji79

Cases high again today. With next half of schools to open Monday next two weeks will be critical. If it starts heading to the 800-1000 mark again per day we’ll be in trouble for every sport I think

RGS

benji79 wrote: »

Cases high again today. With next half of schools to open Monday next two weeks will be critical. If it starts heading to the 800-1000 mark again per day we’ll be in trouble for every sport I think

But numbers are not school related as per government and NPHET. Schools are safe. It's all the fault of household transmissions.

Having listened to Leo earlier and nolan from NPHET yesterday, they appear to be laying the groundwork to cancel their potential easing in April.

benji79

RGS wrote: »

But numbers are not school related as per government and NPHET. Schools are safe. It's all the fault of household transmissions.

Having listened to Leo earlier and nolan from NPHET yesterday, they appear to be laying the groundwork to cancel their potential easing in April.

Some cover ups there. They said there was no clusters in schools. A cluster has to be more than one. But I’ve read elsewhere that there was 70 individual cases last week in schools

Golfhead65

RGS wrote: »

But numbers are not school related as per government and NPHET. Schools are safe. It's all the fault of household transmissions.

Having listened to Leo earlier and nolan from NPHET yesterday, they appear to be laying the groundwork to cancel their potential easing in April.

I think all golf courses should just open regardless of what they say, exclude clubhouse and let lads play away, sure they be only out for a walk in a big field and if anyone suggests that I'd be playing golf I'd take it as a compliment as it will be as far away from playing golf with the lockdown I don't know how long it will be till I'm really playing golf

slingerz

benji79 wrote: »

Some cover ups there. They said there was no clusters in schools. A cluster has to be more than one. But I’ve read elsewhere that there was 70 individual cases last week in schools

I’ve seen 6 LC students out where I am but no close contacts and wasn’t school based transmission allegedly.

Cover up is right

rickis tache

F#@k me but I am missing it..
.Dont enjoy using my putting mat or driving net even with my Garmin monitor.
Miss playing outside with the lads, having the banter and laughs.
Miss posting in the how did you score thread.
Missing the great,good,decent,meh,poor and utter poop shots.
Missing the slight nerves of the first tee shot.
Missing the counting of score at the turn.
Missing when I wish I hadn't counted the score at the turn.
Missing the inputting scores in the computer.
Missing the tea and kitkat after the round.
Missing finding last week's banana still in the bag.
Missing it.

RGS

rickis tache wrote: »

F#@k me but I am missing it..
Missing finding last week's banana still in the bag.
.

Nothing worse that putting your hand in the bag and finding a mushy banana.

Walked the dog on the bull island this morning and the deserted royal Dublin looked very inviting, even the dog wanted to go through the gap in the wire.

Tried to explain to the dog we are not allow on the course, she looked perplexed.!!!!

billy3sheets

I passed the gates of Royal Dublin this afternoon too. Sad to see it all deserted.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YaBd6r8zS43nLuw66
Was pretty blustery afternoon. Not sure the golf would have been very enjoyable.

ForeRight

ForeRight wrote: »

In the Indo today. These are the leaks I like to see.

And just like that April reopening of any sort now unlikely

Bill Ponderosa

Foreright you've been so positive so far don't fail us now.

ForeRight

Bill Ponderosa wrote: »

Foreright you've been so positive so far don't fail us now.

I’m absolutely disgusted with this decision to be honest. We don’t need the anti vax brigade getting more fuel to their cause and for no valid reason. We are limping thru this now in Ireland.
If you read the EMA article it says the amount of clotting is no more than in general non vaccinated popolation.
The hullabaloo now and fear from people will slow everything down.
I can see it now, we need to be careful now in April and no opening up at all as vaccinations are not near where they should be after this suspension.

Today is the first day I’m doubtful about us playing golf or kids playing sports outdoors in April. And it’s all nonsense imo.

Kingswood Rover

Anti Vac heaven but new vaccines very often have teething problems and you gotta be careful. While suspending it now is a pain and just adds to general drudgery of getting through this it has to be done by national regulators to dispel any longer term fears and to keep the post Vaccine observation protocols relevant.

ForeRight

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Anti Vac heaven but new vaccines very often have teething problems and you gotta be careful. While suspending it now is a pain and just adds to general drudgery of getting through this it has to be done by national regulators to dispel any longer term fears and to keep the post Vaccine observation protocols relevant.

Vast majority of EU countries still ploughing ahead with it though. UK has pumped millions into their population with no issues that wouldn’t be normally seen in general population.

Anyway this is a golf forum I suppose.

See you on the first at Easter

RGS

As I've posted on the covid forum it's the correct decision until further evidence is disclosed.
I don't think the vaccine programme is really compromised as we have serious issues with delivery from astra zeneca.

Plus our compensation culture has to be considered as the state have indemnified the manufacturers.

Hopefully it's a blip but doesn't hinder the return of outdoor non contact sports.

Russman

I still think we're good for golf on 5th April tbh.
It is the right decision re the vaccine though, imagine they didn’t investigate it and it turned out to be an issue as they start the very high risk people......
AZ deliveries were up in the air anyway so a weeks delay won’t do a lot imo.

Slimity

Presumably we'll still be taking the scheduled delivery of AZ so when the green light is given to proceed again we should be able to distribute them and be back on track in a matter of days if not weeks given the amounts we're dealing with.

ForeRight

Russman wrote: »

I still think we're good for golf on 5th April tbh.
It is the right decision re the vaccine though, imagine they didn’t investigate it and it turned out to be an issue as they start the very high risk people......
AZ deliveries were up in the air anyway so a weeks delay won’t do a lot imo.

It’s more the doubt that is now needlessly seeded into the mind of the public I’d be worried about. If people become hesitant about getting vaccinated we will never be back to any form of normality.

Tempora

With the stalling of the numbers (no real reduction this week) and the fact that the schools will reopen tomorrow, I worry that we'll see a big spike in that first week of April when the government begins to consider lockdown changes. Not sure we'll see any loosening whatsoever of restrictions if that does happen. Government will not want golf opening with everything else staying closed purely from an optics perspective, even if golf is a very safe activity.

Kiith

Tempora wrote: »

Government will not want golf opening with everything else staying closed purely from an optics perspective, even if golf is a very safe activity.

And this sums up why this entire thing has been a debacle. Optics should have zero impact on any decisions that are being made. Optics are what have kept us in the longest lockdown in the world.

The science shows that golf is safe, along with pretty much any other outdoor, non contact activity. Anyone who argues that it "looks bad" that golf is allowed to open over GAA or whatever else should be shown that data, and told to jog on.

Monster249

Kiith wrote: »

And this sums up why this entire thing has been a debacle. Optics should have zero impact on any decisions that are being made. Optics are what have kept us in the longest lockdown in the world.

The science shows that golf is safe, along with pretty much any other outdoor, non contact activity. Anyone who argues that it "looks bad" that golf is allowed to open over GAA or whatever else should be shown that data, and told to jog on.

This. It defies belief how they're playing with 9 figure sums like it's a simulation, basing decisions on 'optics' and being too afraid to act. They'll dish out 6 week lockdowns like they're churros at a food stall, you'd wonder if they actually realize each time that it's costing them hundreds of millions to implement.

Russman

Kiith wrote: »

The science shows that golf is safe, along with pretty much any other outdoor, non contact activity. Anyone who argues that it "looks bad" that golf is allowed to open over GAA or whatever else should be shown that data, and told to jog on.

You're not wrong, and I'm not for a second arguing that golf "should" be closed, but golf is still wrongly perceived by a minority as the sport of the "elites". The hysterical howling over Golfgate last year only highlighted that. If it was allowed back too soon you'd have every crybaby on social media giving out about the politicians looking after their own while the rest have to suffer, bla, bla etc. etc. Compliance with other measures will likely drop as a result.

Government can't possibly go through every single activity and make a ruling for it, they have to look at the bigger picture and unfortunately for us, whether I get to play 18 holes on 5th April or have to wait til May doesn't come into it for them. I hope were back in April and tbh I think we will be, but part of me still thinks 1st May more realistic.

Monster249

Russman wrote: »

You're not wrong, and I'm not for a second arguing that golf "should" be closed, but golf is still wrongly perceived by a minority as the sport of the "elites". The hysterical howling over Golfgate last year only highlighted that. If it was allowed back too soon you'd have every crybaby on social media giving out about the politicians looking after their own while the rest have to suffer, bla, bla etc. etc. Compliance with other measures will likely drop as a result.

Government can't possibly go through every single activity and make a ruling for it, they have to look at the bigger picture and unfortunately for us, whether I get to play 18 holes on 5th April or have to wait til May doesn't come into it for them. I hope were back in April and tbh I think we will be, but part of me still thinks 1st May more realistic.

Why can't they go through every activity? They should be. This is more nuanced than blanket restrictions can allow for.

B-D-P--

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

WHO guidelines

"A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma)"

Once Co vid is a contributing factor its noted on the Death Cert. From what i have read the rationale being for Population Surveillance purposes which makes sense as this is a new disease in humans.

But RTE reports Deaths with covid19
Not Death due to covid19,, Massive difference, If I was on my deathbed from cancer and was on my dying breath, if i contracted covid 19 in my final hours I would be one of their fancy scary death figures.

gypsy79

B-D-P-- wrote: »

But RTE reports Deaths with covid19
Not Death due to covid19,, Massive difference, If I was on my deathbed from cancer and was on my dying breath, if i contracted covid 19 in my final hours I would be one of their fancy scary death figures.

The PCR test also has parameters so just before you die you could be tested and return a positive test. It could have been months since you had COVID and you may have been assymptomatic

They test everyone entering hospital. I got tested when I spent a few days in there over Xmas.

A conspiracy theorist would say they chose that as the go to test to allow fiddle with numbers. Two antigen tests would have been cheaper and more accurate around the CURRENT situation

The good news is that they have to offer light and golf is one of the ways they can offer light

RGS

Monster249 wrote: »

Why can't they go through every activity? They should be. This is more nuanced than blanket restrictions can allow for.

That would be logical and sensible but our overlords cant see beyond blanket restrictions.


The usual arguments against opening up are golfers/tennis players/ hikers cant be trusted to not stop for petrol/coffee going to their leisure pursuit.


Maybe we should only allow electric cars owner play golf if they have a home charger LOL.
( PS just joking as I am an EV owner.)


We know our restrictions are one of the harshest in the world and it appears we are the only country with construction effectively closed.