Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

Break80

First Up wrote: »

For golf courses to be open, they need staff, equipment and supplies. That would need all golf related activity to be exempted from restrictions.

Walking the fairways is the easy bit.

I think you are winding people up now.
Staff has been maintaining courses since this began last year.
Perhaps if you played the game you might know this.

First Up

Exactly wrote:

They are exempt and Courses are all being maintained.

Limited numbers needed for that compared to staffing and maintaining a course to allow a few hundred people a day. And golfers won't be exempted from travel restrictions.

I will be as happy as anyone to be back playing but portraying it as single golfers walking the fairways is not the full picture.

blue note

Break80 wrote: »

The general argument here is golf is safer than the schools,shops,factories and offices you mentioned so why is it still closed?
You will probably be stopping for petrol/coffee on your way to any of the above as well.

It's not just about how safe each activity is, it's also about how important it is to allow that activity. Opening schools allows for our kids to be educated and allows parents to work from home. Opening golf courses allows for people to play golf and gives a relatively small number of people (in the scheme of things) employment. There's no comparison between the two.

It's the same for construction. Much higher risk than golf, much greater benefit. You're not just comparing the risk.

The government will take an unbelievable amount of flack if they don't ease the restrictions in some way on 5th April. They'll also take huge flack further down the line if they ease them and things get out of control again. Which is exactly what happened in December - they caved to public / publican pressure to reopen, most people were glad of it at the time and a month later everyone was calling the government idiots for reopening when they had demanded it.

The truth is now that the cases are twice what they were in December when we reopened and are no longer falling. If we ease restrictions that R number will increase and if it's at 1 at present it will go beyond 1 and cases will start to increase again.

However, there's the vaccine. Between the number of people who have been vaccinated and the number who should be protected from previously having had the virus, surely we have a significant number of people immune. So as more people become protected from the virus, we should be able to allow more contacts (such as opening golf) and have the R number hold steady.

But if they get it wrong and open up too soon the numbers will shoot up again. And instead of having another month of lockdown now, we might end up with another three months of it down the line. I don't know what the right thing to do is. It must be incredibly difficult for the government to figure out what the best course of action (or inaction) is and they have access to all the data, all the experts. I would say they would love to be as confident as the posters here on the best course of action, but they're being burdened by data and advice from experts. Maybe they need the Brexit strategy of "we've heard enough from the experts in this debate, now it's time to decide what to do without listening to them."

First Up

First Up wrote: »

Limited numbers needed for that compared to staffing and maintaining a course to allow a few hundred people a day. And golfers won't be exempted from travel restrictions.

I will be as happy as anyone to be back playing but portraying it as single golfers walking the fairways is not the full picture.

Where did I portray anything as single golfers walking the fairways?

gypsy79

If golf opens then I will be safe and at a slightly smaller risk of COVID 19

Because instead of playing golf tomorrow I am going drinking with family members

First Up

Exactly wrote:

Where did I portray anything as single golfers walking the fairways?

I admit that I have not been tracking your contributions as closely as you think I should. The overall theme here is that golf is a safe activity. It is a fair but limited point, as it ignores all of the other activities that need to take place to enable people play golf.

blue note

gypsy79 wrote: »

If golf opens then I will be safe and at a slightly smaller risk of COVID 19

Because instead of playing golf tomorrow I am going drinking with family members

This is an important point that I've made here a few times. There's no point in looking at what effect a restriction will have if everyone follows it as they're supposed to. What you need to look at is what effect a restriction will actually have on transmissions. One factor against opening golf here is that people will travel together, have coffee after, you'll even have lads decide to all go down the country to someone's gaff and play golf and stay over for the night and have a few drinks. On the other hand, people golfing could be doing worse things as well, such as calling round to friends or families houses for dinner and drinks.

It really adds to the complexity of it. Because as people say, playing golf is relatively harmless. But just looking at that shows that you don't understand why golf is not open.

benny79

I have to disagree they are going to have to ease some restrictions might not necessary be golf but it seems the most logical thing that and most outdoor sports and would even go as far and say gyms.. Peoples mental health is at breaking point now. Sure garden centres are opened now and Id say the are rammed the one in johnstown looks to be in anyway.. The numbers are at 500 average daily roughly which isnt a lot. Plus you have vaccine roll out. There's some county's that dont even have any cases!

If they dont the restrictions will just be ignored especially if the weather starts getting nice which it is. You can even see a lot of the public have had enough now. Traffic is even way heavier

Seve OB

blue note wrote: »

This is an important point that I've made here a few times. There's no point in looking at what effect a restriction will have if everyone follows it as they're supposed to. What you need to look at is what effect a restriction will actually have on transmissions. One factor against opening golf here is that people will travel together, have coffee after, you'll even have lads decide to all go down the country to someone's gaff and play golf and stay over for the night and have a few drinks. On the other hand, people golfing could be doing worse things as well, such as calling round to friends or families houses for dinner and drinks.

It really adds to the complexity of it. Because as people say, playing golf is relatively harmless. But just looking at that shows that you don't understand why golf is not open.

Nope.
He has made a valid point that some people just don’t seem to understand.

People are actively doing things they should not be doing which are technically unsafe and are causing transmission.

Why are they doing this?
Because they are sick of hibernating and want a release.

If they could do safer things, would they? Absolutely.

Result would be a happier society, with people more spread out and less groups gathering

Seve OB

Arnold54321 wrote: »

From a journalist.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-cabinet-split-on-easing-5km-limit-in-april-as-work-from-home-advice-to-remain-until-june-1.4514206?mode=amp

Apparently golf and other outdoor activities where earlier highlighted as opening back up in April, NPHET had other ideas and now with an increase in cases, politicians are too wary to speak out against them.

Nothing in there to suggest golf won’t open. Actually it says the opposite.

One Government source said an easing of restrictions along the lines of Northern Ireland is “the best we can hope for at the moment”. Across the Border, the focus is on small outdoor gatherings and some sporting activities as well as certain click-and-collect services.

benny79

blue note wrote: »

This is an important point that I've made here a few times. There's no point in looking at what effect a restriction will have if everyone follows it as they're supposed to. What you need to look at is what effect a restriction will actually have on transmissions. One factor against opening golf here is that people will travel together, have coffee after, you'll even have lads decide to all go down the country to someone's gaff and play golf and stay over for the night and have a few drinks. On the other hand, people golfing could be doing worse things as well, such as calling round to friends or families houses for dinner and drinks.

It really adds to the complexity of it. Because as people say, playing golf is relatively harmless. But just looking at that shows that you don't understand why golf is not open.

Come on! sure you can say the same for the things that are already opened now! Remember after the first lock down golf & outdoor sports was one of the first thinks back. The same will have to apply here. Believe me when the sun shines people will not stay cupped up in their houses or obey the 5 km.. After the first lockdown most did as everything was new..

First Up

Seve OB wrote:

Result would be a happier society, with people more spread out and less groups gathering

The quickest way to get golf back to normal is to get everything back to normal. That needs people to follow the expert advice and show some discipline and common sense.

The longer that takes, the longer before we can play golf, go to work, go to concerts and all the rest.

First Up

First Up wrote: »

The quickest way to get golf back to normal is to get everything back to normal. That needs people to follow the expert advice and show some discipline and common sense.

The longer that takes, the longer before we can play golf, go to work, go to concerts and all the rest.

Thanks Ronan.

ForeRight

First Up wrote: »

The quickest way to get golf back to normal is to get everything back to normal. That needs people to follow the expert advice and show some discipline and common sense.

The longer that takes, the longer before we can play golf, go to work, go to concerts and all the rest.

This doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

They’ve always said lockdown was to protect the health care system and prevent an overwhelming of icu.
That was achieved thru extreme sacrifice by the vast majority of the public.
Vaccinations have taken place in the main cohort that requires hospitalisation with the virus and data shows that the number of elderly or nursing home needing treatment has massively dropped. The data from other countries way ahead in their vaccine program show extreme reductions in hospitalisations.

Some how the narrative has now shifted to case numbers being too high to have any reduction in restrictions.
What problem are case numbers when 50% of them are people in the 20-40 age category who will be perfectly fine looking after themselves at home in 99% of the cases.

People will argue that the more young people that test positive means eventually it will get back into the older community, I get that and I understood that logic before that community was vaccinated but now it’s a mute point with vaccinations done.

Wherever about golf, I can live without golf as much as I may miss it.
For the life of me I struggle to understand how nphet have always said school kids are save and not huge carriers and are ok in school.... as they should never have been out of imo but in the same breath kids are not allowed to train for sports together.
I’ve only one child that is old enough for sports at the moment so it doesn’t affect me massively but I struggle to see that logic.

As I’ve said before I know golf is safe, tennis, tiddlywinks or whatever but I did understand why they were all blanket banned after Xmas.

But now... icu is fine, hospitals are fine, elderly and nursing homes vaccinated yet we are potentially looking at 6 months of this year alone not allowed move more than 5km from your home. Really???? Does this make logical sense to anyone at this stage???

I’ve abided by all restrictions up to this point I’ll add by the way but what’s happening now is simply not going to work.
They can open nothing but that won’t reduce cases. Too high a % of the very compliant in society are done now and can see the health care system is extremely comfortable now.

blue note

benny79 wrote: »

Come on! sure you can say the same for the things that are already opened now! Remember after the first lock down golf & outdoor sports was one of the first thinks back. The same will have to apply here. Believe me when the sun shines people will not stay cupped up in their houses or obey the 5 km.. After the first lockdown most did as everything was new..

Of course it's true for other things that are currently open and others things currently closed. There are always more variables than just the activity being discussed.

Hopefully we do get sunshine and people meeting outdoors now. Because that's much safer than people being indoors because of the rain.

My own guess is that people's capacity to comply with restrictions has waned. So a slight easing will mean that people might comply for a little longer, but you have to balance that off against the effects of eating those restrictions.

Opening golf, tennis, hillwalking, cycling, etc is probably a good option and overall might help control the rate of transmission. But it's anything but simple.

Monster249

blue note wrote: »

Of course it's true for other things that are currently open and others things currently closed. There are always more variables than just the activity being discussed.

Hopefully we do get sunshine and people meeting outdoors now. Because that's much safer than people being indoors because of the rain.

My own guess is that people's capacity to comply with restrictions has waned. So a slight easing will mean that people might comply for a little longer, but you have to balance that off against the effects of eating those restrictions.

Opening golf, tennis, hillwalking, cycling, etc is probably a good option and overall might help control the rate of transmission. But it's anything but simple.

It's extremely simple, nearly every other country in the world have thought so.

You can tell you're trying to complicate an issue that isn't so, not everything has multiple layers to it.

blue note

Monster249 wrote: »

It's extremely simple, nearly every other country in the world have thought so.

You can tell you're trying to complicate an issue that isn't so, not everything has multiple layers to it.

You say it like all the other counties have gotten it right when dealing with covid!

PabloAndRoy

This thread has given me an idea as to why my golf is so poor.

I need to stop for diesel and get a coffee on the way to the club. I didn't realise that this was an important part of the pre-round ritual.

Watch out handicap, I am coming after you, sometime later this year.

/s (in case its needed)

RGS

All countries made mistakes in handling this matter.

But we have taken the restrictions to the extreme. Studies have shown our restrictions are in the top 3 in the world.

Our golfing courses are closed the longest in the world and over 3 times the rate of closure in Scotland.

12 months in we need an exit strategy which we don't have.

The reports today are cabinet are divided on relaxing the 5km rule. If this is a major bone of contention at cabinet what way are discussions going to be like when opening hospitality is on the agenda(maybe hospitality wont make the agenda for 2021)

Golfhead65

I just can't believe what I'm reading from you, I think you are a wind up merchant, Lockdowns, 5K limits have not worked like the saying about insanity "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Ffs have you not gone outside, the amount of gatherings in big groups outside is off the wall, don't get me wrong as I don't think there is anything wrong with it but" a gathering at a golf club is 4 people at most and don't BS about stopping for coffee etc it's happening on a much larger scale as it is

Golfhead65

Golfhead65 wrote: »

I just can't believe what I'm reading from you, I think you are a wind up merchant, Lockdowns, 5K limits have not worked like the saying about insanity "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Ffs have you not gone outside, the amount of gatherings in big groups outside is off the wall, don't get me wrong as I don't think there is anything wrong with it but" a gathering at a golf club is 4 people at most and don't BS about stopping for coffee etc it's happening on a much larger scale as it is

In reply to First up

bigmac3

Golfhead65 wrote: »

I just can't believe what I'm reading from you, I think you are a wind up merchant, Lockdowns, 5K limits have not worked like the saying about insanity "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Ffs have you not gone outside, the amount of gatherings in big groups outside is off the wall, don't get me wrong as I don't think there is anything wrong with it but" a gathering at a golf club is 4 people at most and don't BS about stopping for coffee etc it's happening on a much larger scale as it is

Looking at the PGA Golf and decided to check some figures to put things in context.

The Golf Course is in Palm Beach County in Florida which has a population of circa 1.5 million. They have had almost 5K cases of Covid in the last 14 days. There is a tour event taking place there at the moment with 10K in attendance every day.

We have people here worried that reopening Golf will lead to more people visiting garages and the like on the way to play or on the way home or maybe talking to people in the Golf club car park.

I think they're showing us what living with Covid actually really means.

slingerz

With the north reopening on April 1st maybe I’m being optimistic but it’s hard to see the south remaining closed in that instance

Lip Out

I don't understand why the golf community has basically gone silent recently. A collective voice might have some influence if they are sitting on the fence. Enough bending over.

https://twitter.com/Brendan_IRL/status/1372980775663063041?s=19

Bill Ponderosa

slingerz wrote: »

With the north reopening on April 1st maybe I’m being optimistic but it’s hard to see the south remaining closed in that instance

Who knows, the government will wait until they see what way the wind blows before making a decision, its been terrible leadership.

If they were any way interested they would have implemented mandatory quarantine from people arriving into our airports but no let's just keep our own people restricted to 5km from their homes and let's close down the economy for months on end.

First Up

Golfhead65 wrote: »

I just can't believe what I'm reading from you, I think you are a wind up merchant, Lockdowns, 5K limits have not worked like the saying about insanity "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Ffs have you not gone outside, the amount of gatherings in big groups outside is off the wall, don't get me wrong as I don't think there is anything wrong with it but" a gathering at a golf club is 4 people at most and don't BS about stopping for coffee etc it's happening on a much larger scale as it is

There's another way of looking at that. To stop the virus spreading we need to change our behaviour. We have been told what to do - and what not to do.

However many people keep on doing the same things, like the numpty on here who threatened to have a house party if he couldn't play golf. So the virus keeps spreading, thereby proving that definition of insanity.

Playing golf is safer than doing a lot of things and I hope we can get back to it soon. But complaining that golf should be exempted from restrictions that apply to everything else, while threatening to break restrictions out of spite isn't going to get us on the course any faster.

ForeRight

RGS

ForeRight wrote: »

The kite flying has started. Suggesting we can go 10km isn't going to cut it especially after NPHETS gaffe in telling us all to do more. I think that statement has probably lost the dressing room now.

Even suggesting only a phased return to construction isn't good enough when we are the only country with construction closed.

Finlay Harp

Golf Clubs can reopen from Thursday 1st April for members only; Northern Ireland Only.

• Golf activities at club level may be resumed, including those which are acceptable for handicapping purposes
where such conditions can be met under the World Handicapping System.

• No organized social gatherings, of any size, are permitted at golf facilities. All golf activities will be organized based on arrival-play-depart without delay.

• In the initial phase (until 12th April), the Northern Ireland Executive has decided that participants in sport and exercise activity must be from no more than two households. Therefore, groups playing on golf courses
during this initial phase must be confined to a maximum of two households. This means that all tee times must be either two-balls or alternatively three-balls and four-balls where players in the group are from no more than two households.

Members will receive further instructions early next week as to how they can book their times and when they can play.

2021 membership fees must be paid on or before 1st April. Thanks to all who have already paid. Please ensure you are in a state of readiness when booking your tee time. On the 1st of April, golf is for members only.

This is an extract from an email sent from my club yesterday.