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Youtube censorship time to allow embedded videos from other sites?

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12357…13

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    #122
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Why should he get banned if he hasn't broken any laws?

    People get banned from here without breaking any laws.


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    #123
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    People get banned from here without breaking any laws.


    People get banned in here for saying "boo"


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    #124
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    People get banned in here for saying "boo"

    EHhm, boo.


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    #125
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Why should he get banned if he hasn't broken any laws?

    It's a company. They can do what they want within the bounds of the law.


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    #126
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    EHhm, boo.


    Hilarious, anything of substance to the debate at hand to say?


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    #127
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Hilarious, anything of substance to the debate at hand to say?

    Yes. It was in the post you quoted earlier.


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    #128
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    It's a company. They can do what they want within the bounds of the law.


    That old chestnut. Its been addressed in the thread already. Have a read back.


    Look what is happening in China with the social credit system. That is what you get when one ideology is allowed run rampant. That is the road we are headed down if we allow the likes of YouTube to control the public discourse. And private company or not, they do have much control of public discourse. They are so big that they have become the "public squares" of the modern, digital age. I am not suggesting they should be stopped by regulations etc. as you said, they can do what they want. But people need to be aware of the slippery slope that I refereed to earlier. The likes of BitChute, that allows free speech from all angles should be supported no matter what side of the political spectrum you are on.


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    #129
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Yes. It was in the post you quoted earlier.

    Dravokivich wrote: »
    EHhm, boo.


    Great contribution, I'll take it into consideration.


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    #130
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Did not know Boards will not allow BitChute to be embedded. That's pretty pathetic. Once one is not inciting violence they should be free to say whatever they want. To ban people exercising free speech is a very very slippery slope.

    When did YouTube or boards become the State authorities ? Freedom of speech has absolutely no bearing on private owned companies . They like all non state media outlets can publish or allow to be publish what they like, subject to the relevant jurisdiction on defamation laws and similar provisions


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    #131
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Great contribution, I'll take it into consideration.

    If you've got too short a memory you can scroll back a bit more and see "people get banned from here without breaking any laws."


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    #132
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    If you've got too short a memory you can scroll back a bit more and see "people get banned from here without breaking any laws."


    OK, well, could you elaborate on that? Whats your point?


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    #133
    dan1895
    Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭dan1895


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    OK, well, could you elaborate on that? Whats your point?

    That the threshold for being banned from a website is much lower than the law.


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    #134
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    When did YouTube or boards become the State authorities ?


    As far as I am aware, nobody said they had?


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    Freedom of speech has absolutely no bearing on private owned companies . They like all non state media outlets can publish or allow to be publish what they like, subject to the relevant jurisdiction on defamation laws and similar provisions


    I'll give a more extreme possible scenario... Lets say for example, Whatsapp did not allow Americans to send pro Trump messages in the run up to the election, would you feel OK with that? Again, I am not saying they should not be allowed to do whatever they want with their platforms, I am saying platforms that allow free speech should be supported better by users like yourself and myself, as per the thread topic.


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    #135
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,483 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    Youtube is nothing of the kind anymore forget the YOU big media platforms have been given unfair advantage on Youtube.

    Is it time video sharing sites like BitChute which works under peer to peer sharing was allowed to be embedded here?


    We discuss current affairs here and Youtube is no longer fit for purpose in my opinion.

    This video is banned on Youtube for example if you disagree with something post you counter argument censorship belongs in North Korea and China not Europe.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/H4W7FwBy0Ukh/

    Could have saved a whole lot of waffle in this thread if someone had initially just pointed out that if it's P2P that is likely to not work as desired, from a purely technical perspective.


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    #136
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    OK, well, could you elaborate on that? Whats your point?

    You want to use a service, you do so in agreement with terms and conditions. Breach them and you'll be removed from the service.


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    #137
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    That old chestnut. Its been addressed in the thread already. Have a read back.


    Look what is happening in China with the social credit system. That is what you get when one ideology is allowed run rampant. That is the road we are headed down if we allow the likes of YouTube to control the public discourse. And private company or not, they do have much control of public discourse. They are so big that they have become the "public squares" of the modern, digital age. I am not suggesting they should be stopped by regulations etc. as you said, they can do what they want. But people need to be aware of the slippery slope that I refereed to earlier. The likes of BitChute, that allows free speech from all angles should be supported no matter what side of the political spectrum you are on.

    Yeah I saw. Ah the ol' Prager U argument thrown in with the slippery slope fallacy. Was surprised it took this long to turn up tbh.


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    #138
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    When did YouTube or boards become the State authorities ? Freedom of speech has absolutely no bearing on private owned companies . They like all non state media outlets can publish or allow to be publish what they like, subject to the relevant jurisdiction on defamation laws and similar provisions
    No one is saying that Youtube breaks US law. The point is they get to curate their media while they remain liability free. Youtube is basically acting like an enormous TV channel that has an unfair advantage of traditional media that they can never be sued for defamation. The playing field should be level.

    dan1895 wrote: »
    That the threshold for being banned from a website is much lower than the law.

    In the US there is no level playing field between web giants like Youtube and the the traditional media. That is unfair. In Ireland the law is not so dissimilar.

    Blacktie. wrote: »
    Yeah I saw. Ah the ol' Prager U argument thrown in with the slippery slope fallacy. Was surprised it took this long to turn up tbh.

    It would behove you to explain why it is a fallacy.


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    #139
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    When did YouTube or boards become the State authorities ? Freedom of speech has absolutely no bearing on private owned companies . They like all non state media outlets can publish or allow to be publish what they like, subject to the relevant jurisdiction on defamation laws and similar provisions

    It's freedom of speech so I demand my voice be on their platform. *Shakes pitchfork*


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    #140
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    As far as I am aware, nobody said they had?






    I'll give a more extreme possible scenario... Lets say for example, Whatsapp did not allow Americans to send pro Trump messages in the run up to the election, would you feel OK with that? Again, I am not saying they should not be allowed to do whatever they want with their platforms, I am saying platforms that allow free speech should be supported better by users like yourself and myself, as per the thread topic.

    It was rhetorical , correct, no one suggested that YouTube and co are state authorities, however they do cite freedom of speech, completely informing or being ignorant as to when those human rights provisions actually become relevant - hence to rhetorical question on State authorities . Freedom of speech has zero relevancy with regard to the actions of YouTube and co

    Nah, let’s just stick to facts and what the free speech provisions actually do and when it applies. There’s a clear misunderstanding from people as to when it’s relevant

    Waffling on about Trump , the US President ,And his supporters has zero relevancy to what is published or not published on you tube and co . You clearly also aren’t sure as to what free speech provisions are and to whom and when they apply

    WhatsApp ,YouTube and co are free to allow or deny access to its users ,be they private or public members . Freedom of speech has no relevancy

    Am I okay with that ? It’s their choice (whats app) . Users can freely find another platform to send their message . People themselves will decide what platform they want to use, saying what people “should“ be supporting is rather dictatorial


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    #141
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Overheal wrote: »
    Could have saved a whole lot of waffle in this thread if someone had initially just pointed out that if it's P2P that is likely to not work as desired, from a purely technical perspective.


    Regardless, some peoples views are being shoved aside in a modern day book burning. Thats not good. And why let a technicality get in the way? Make it work I say. BitChute videos can be embedded (https://support.bitchute.com/content/how-to-embed-a-video-on-your-site) but I also get there are other issues to overcome


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    #142
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    It's freedom of speech so I demand my voice be on their platform. *Shakes pitchfork*

    Wow the censorship brigade are not very friendly.


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    #143
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    It was rhetorical , correct, no one suggested that YouTube and co are state authorities, however they do cite freedom of speech, completely informing or being ignorant as to when those human rights provisions actually become relevant - hence to rhetorical question on State authorities . Freedom of speech has zero relevancy with regard to the actions of YouTube and co

    Nah, let’s just stick to facts and what the free speech provisions actually do and when it applies. There’s a clear misunderstanding from people as to when it’s relevant

    Waffling on about Trump , the US President ,And his supporters has zero relevancy to what is published or not published on you tube and co . You clearly also aren’t sure as to what free speech provisions are and to whom and when they apply

    WhatsApp ,YouTube and co are free to allow or deny access to its users ,be they private or public members . Freedom of speech has no relevancy

    Am I okay with that ? It’s their choice (whats app) . Users can freely find another platform to send their message . People themselves will decide what platform they want to use, saying what people “should“ be supporting is rather dictatorial

    In US law, they aren't, because they are claiming to be a utility company which would them more neutral. I dont think you understand the argument.


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    #144
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    No one is saying that Youtube breaks US law. The point is they get to curate their media while they remain liability free. Youtube is basically acting like an enormous TV channel that has an unfair advantage of traditional media that they can never be sued for defamation. The playing field should be level.




    In the US there is no level playing field between web giants like Youtube and the the traditional media. That is unfair. In Ireland the law is not so dissimilar.




    It would behove you to explain why it is a fallacy.

    Completely agree with you on social media and YouTube’s ability to get away Scott free from liability for defamation . It’s a massive issue for me with regard to the defamation laws in many common law justifications . The current laws are only fit for the traditional tv and print and radio . Reform is needed and there’s only so much the courts can do without legislation

    As for liability on YouTube parts, the laws encourage them not to act like moderators and just ignore everything till someone complains .

    However, it must be very hard, (not necessarily impossible for them) to police all what goes up on their site, be it videos or idiots making comments in the comment box , they have little control .


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    #145
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    In US law, they aren't, because they are claiming to be a utility company which would them more neutral. I dont think you understand the argument.

    When you understand when ,where and to whom the freedom of speech provisions in Constitutions and UN /Eu human rights conventions apply ,come back to me

    Your claim about not understanding what was said , has no foundation

    Moreover, neutrality most certainly does not mean it’s a case of no holds bar say and publish what you want


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    #146
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    Am I okay with that ? It’s their choice (whats app) . Users can freely find another platform to send their message .


    And here comes the slippery slope... Very quickly there could be no platform for a person to use. This kind of crap is happening in China right now...

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained

    "Liu Hu is a journalist in China, writing about censorship and government corruption. Because of his work, Liu has been arrested and fined — and blacklisted. Liu found he was named on a List of Dishonest Persons Subject to Enforcement by the Supreme People's Court as "not qualified" to buy a plane ticket, and banned from travelling some train lines, buying property, or taking out a loan.

    "There was no file, no police warrant, no official advance notification. They just cut me off from the things I was once entitled to," he told The Globe and Mail. "What's really scary is there's nothing you can do about it. You can report to no one. You are stuck in the middle of nowhere."


    Again, I say, let them do what they want, I understand they are a private company. I just think people should be aware of what might be down the road.


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    People themselves will decide what platform they want to use, saying what people “should“ be supporting is rather dictatorial


    "Should" does not have the same meaning as "must".


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    #147
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    And here comes the slippery slope... Very quickly there could be no platform for a person to use. This kind of crap is happening in China right now...

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained

    "Liu Hu is a journalist in China, writing about censorship and government corruption. Because of his work, Liu has been arrested and fined — and blacklisted. Liu found he was named on a List of Dishonest Persons Subject to Enforcement by the Supreme People's Court as "not qualified" to buy a plane ticket, and banned from travelling some train lines, buying property, or taking out a loan.

    "There was no file, no police warrant, no official advance notification. They just cut me off from the things I was once entitled to," he told The Globe and Mail. "What's really scary is there's nothing you can do about it. You can report to no one. You are stuck in the middle of nowhere."


    Again, I say, let them do what they want, I understand they are a private company. I just think people should be aware of what might be down the road.






    "Should" does not have the same meaning as "must".

    Bull****. When ever and where ever there’s a market for something , someone in that group for said “person” will come out and create one . Just like tv stations, there will be platforms and websites created to suit the needs of people based on their politics etc

    China was hardly ever a bastion of even the most basic of freedoms , nonsense comparison to the Western World

    Why should any private company let people do what they want ? Their house, their rules ! Don’t like it, go find a company what will cater for you and there’s is always going to be a someone on the market who will


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    #148
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    Bull****.

    No need for that. I am being respectful, please show me the same courtesy.

    Anyway... I mostly agree with you, read back over my posts. I am advocating people being informed about what is going on and the possible consequences of same, not forcing private companies to do anything they don't want to.


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    #149
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    No need for that. I am being respectful, please show me the same courtesy.

    Anyway... I mostly agree with you, read back over my posts. I am advocating people being informed about what is going on and the possible consequences of same, not forcing private companies to do anything they don't want to.

    Respect must be earned . You were talking nonsense


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    #150
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Randy Archer wrote: »
    Respect must be earned . You were talking nonsense


    Talking nonsense how? We agree for the most part?


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    #151
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    https://youtu.be/2B8ycnc8PMA

    Every answer you need for those who don't get it.


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