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Surrogate babies stranded in Ukraine

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    #32
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    If the surrogate mothers are not forced then its their body their choice

    What about the baby?!?


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    #33
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    splinter65 wrote: »
    What about the baby?!?

    That has nothing to do with the woman's choice to get pregnant


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    #34
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    they were doing it in Babylonia man

    Does that make it ok then?


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    #35
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    If the surrogate mothers are not forced then its their body their choice

    Then why are all these surrogacy farms in areas of severe poverty?


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    #36
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭Treppen


    august12 wrote: »
    Let s/he without sin cast the first stone:
    This makes for an interesting read, how many of us here buy clothes from any of these brands?

    https://www.gallantintl.com/blogs/your-clothes-are-exploiting-workers

    Now let's talk about exploitation.

    Bit of a straw man argument there.

    Oh look at other things that are bad so it makes this equally bad which...is good?


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    #37
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    That was one of the saddest things I have ever seen and there's a reason this is illegal in many countries.

    Absolutely tragic situation for those babies, the staff, the surrogates and prospective parents.

    It shouldn't be allowed, it was like the lady doing the video was featuring in an ad for a luxury timeshare.

    I was disgusted by it, those poor children. Nothing more than a baby farm.


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    #38
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    If someone's sister did it for her sister could not conceive a baby, would there be any problem with that?


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    #39
    Mr_Muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Mr_Muffin


    Babies born into the world to be sold. Barbaric practice.


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    #40
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Giselle Incalculable Perpetrator wrote: »
    That was one of the saddest things I have ever seen and there's a reason this is illegal in many countries.

    Absolutely tragic situation for those babies, the staff, the surrogates and prospective parents.

    It shouldn't be allowed, it was like the lady doing the video was featuring in an ad for a luxury timeshare.

    I was disgusted by it, those poor children. Nothing more than a baby farm.

    Do you think adoption should be allowed?


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    #41
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Do you think adoption should be allowed?

    If a child that's already born is given the opportunity to have a family (where none exist or its not possible for them to keep it) then yes.

    But it's very different than planning to exploit some impoverished young woman who risks her physical and mental health to provide a child in return for cash.

    How anyone can raise a child borne out of that I don't know, it's pure selfishness.


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    So we have no right to criticise people who steal to feed a drug habit, unless we have a drug habit ourselves? Etc?


    Rubbish.

    Womb rental is wrong, end of story.

    It exploits the baby carriers and creates a market for breeding children to order.

    I agree with you. But the poster was having a pop at a mother who had to resort to using a surrogate due to her inability to carry a baby. It’s a very emotional subject and just because her father is high profile it doesn’t give anyone the right to talk about them in such a way b


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    #43
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Until you’ve been unable to have a baby yourself, you have no right to criticise others who find themselves in this unfortunate, soul destroying situation.

    bullsh!t


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    #44
    Lyan
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Lyan


    Tyrannical to allow free individuals to bring a child into the world to increase the prosperity and happiness of the parents, but also tyrannical to ban parents from gorishly aborting their children for their prosperity and happiness. I don't think I'll ever understand the Irish and this seemingly new definition of "liberalism".


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    bullsh!t

    Why? Because it’s not your viewpoint?


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    #46
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Until you’ve been unable to have a baby yourself, you have no right to criticise others who find themselves in this unfortunate, soul destroying situation.

    Of course we have a right to criticise. There is a reason that it's banned in most countries. The absolute entitlement of people to have a baby is not more important than impoverished peoples lives.
    Adopt, foster or just accept it.


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    #47
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Of course we have a right to criticise. There is a reason that it's banned in most countries. The absolute entitlement of people to have a baby is not more important than impoverished peoples lives.
    Adopt, foster or just accept it.

    You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?


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    #48
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Unless there is varifed extenuating circumstances you should not be allowed to buy a foreign baby and register the child/children as Irish citizens or be allowed to bring a foreign born baby through surrogacy here ,
    It should be outlawed ,it's amazing how we get the excuse we can't adopt here (no perfect blue eyed newborns to be had ) plenty of other children here need families but not good enough for the well to do ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #49
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?

    Willingly?? I bet if they had any other choice it wouldn't be to be someone else's baby incubator.

    Money, money, money that's all those baby factories are about.

    No better than human trafficking.


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    #50
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why? Because it’s not your viewpoint?

    Surrogacy with a willing sister, relative, friend etc I'm all for that

    Taking advantage of those in lesser socio economic situations is not right in my mind.. Especially when a lot of these cases will involve local mafia run operations...

    Maybe you've no issue with rich people taking advantage of such vulnerable poor people in this way.. Not much of a viewpoint that I'd have much respect for personally. No amount of personal pain gives you a free pass to cause pain for others.


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    #51
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?

    Yes, that's what this about. Women's rights to be farm animals.


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    #52
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?

    At what age should it be restricted? 1 month? 12 months? 12 years?


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    #53
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,984 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?

    Yes. Because it involves the life a child, not just the sperm and egg donors and womb-for-rent.


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    #54
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,343 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    lawred2 wrote: »
    The late late show had a seriously warped interview with Rosanna Davidson who did exactly this - went off to Ukraine to buy a surrogate.. I found the whole thing seriously off yet the LLS was all in with the attempt to paint it as a wondrous happening.

    I'm not surprised this has happened... treat women and babies as a for profit industry and you're going to get some nasty unintended consequences..

    I wonder are they squirming now?

    Are you for real?

    The woman could not carry a child. Desperately wanted to be a mother. Chose the only way to achieve this. Surrogacy...

    Warped? Yes, maybe you are, for thinking this..


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    #55
    PyreOfHellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭PyreOfHellfire


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Surrogacy with a willing sister, relative, friend etc I'm all for that

    Taking advantage of those in lesser socio economic situations is not right in my mind.. Especially when a lot of these cases will involve local mafia run operations...

    Maybe you've no issue with rich people taking advantage of such vulnerable poor people in this way.. Not much of a viewpoint that I'd have much respect for personally. No amount of personal pain gives you a free pass to cause pain for others.

    That's capitalism 101.


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    #56
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    PyreOfHellfire wrote: »
    That's capitalism 101.

    :rolleyes:


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    #57
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    walshb wrote: »
    Are you for real?

    The woman could not carry a child. Desperately wanted to be a mother. Chose the only way to achieve this. Surrogacy...

    Warped? Yes, maybe you are, for thinking this..

    Nope.

    Buying surrogate women in the control of organised crime does not have a rosy upside.

    Amazing how some seem to think that their misfortune gives them free rein to do what they like they others...


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    #58
    PyreOfHellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭PyreOfHellfire


    lawred2 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    No real response? Not surprised. The constant bleeding heart "but what about the poor" liberal nonsense doesn't really stand on it's own merit.


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    #59
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,343 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Nope.

    Buying surrogate women in the control of organised crime does not have a rosy upside.

    Amazing how some seem to think that their misfortune gives them free rein to do what they like they others...

    Are you also anti egg donation for women who cannot conceive naturally?

    What does it matter where or who for surrogacy?

    They got their dream off a surrogate in a foreign country. Big deal..

    I see from another post that you wouldn’t object if the surrogate was a relative or friend?


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    #60
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    How much would a woman have to be worth before she can choose to be a surrogate. Only women who earn over 50,000?


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    #61
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Nope.

    Buying surrogate women in the control of organised crime does not have a rosy upside.

    Amazing how some seem to think that their misfortune gives them free rein to do what they like they others...

    I actually wonder how people who take part in those baby mills justify it to themselves.

    What do they tell themselves to make it seem like this is an OK thing to do?


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