Transport Aircraft

donvito99

The Poles are procuring the 149. Their spec is for 5 "fully equipped" troops and ISR, limited CAS.

Obviously bigger factor at play here is domestic production, but it moves the 149 on from vapour-ware.

https://defence24.com/armed-forces/poland-procures-the-aw149-in-its-perkoz-programme

jonnybigwallet

Cool looking air craft!

Dohvolle

Netherlands just pushed the button on 5 C390m to replace their 4 C130s. Much better availability than the C130J in trials they are saying, with 5 C130J required to return the same flight hours as 4 C390. Dutch also planning to share their aircraft with the International Transport Alliance.

This is a big deal, and shows its no longer a choice between A400M or C130J. Will be interesting to see how fast Embraer can deliver. (given their large civilian production line).

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212021#Comment_119212021

Didn’t the AC have an interest in that aircraft before. I reckon finances where the main turn away for it but Embrear are doing good business with there 390, the Indian airforce have an orders pending, Hungary(2) and Portugal(5) have larges orders to be delivered in first quarter of 2023. With the Dutch in on it now maybe the AC will look at it again (hopefully)

jonnybigwallet

I like that Embraer quite a lot meself. Great aircraft manufacturer. Flown on their planes countless times. Can't fault em.

Dohvolle

Well the more are built, the cheaper the airframe becomes, it seems, as the initial models will usually include development costs.

Once the current orders are delivered successfully, it would be a very attractive proposal. I'd like to see production dramatically ramped up though. I think there currently just 8 of the type flying.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119213969#Comment_119213969

Could the government look at putting 3 aircraft on the dutch order reducing costs for both nations

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214071#Comment_119214071

This government?

Make a quick decision on something like this?

Are you insane?

A purchase like that requires an RFP, An RFT for a consultant to select the aircraft, An RFT to purchase the aircraft, An RFT to build new Hangars to house said aircraft and it's massive Tail, only for it all to go into the backburner because local residents are terrified of the large metal bird, and the whole project has to relocate to a new Civil/military airfield, which takes many committees, local lobbying by parish pump politicians, at which point the Dutch have already retired their C390s...

We have been talking about the need for primary radar since BEFORE 9/11. Purchase of a Transport aircraft was also being considered before 9/11. We chose to make no significant purchase during the Economic boom, and then blamed the recession for not buying anything extra after. Now with inflation back at 1980s levels, and another global recession imminent...depending whether or not someone decides to Slap Russia down or not...

We might lease one for a year, while we are EU president perhaps... White in colour of course.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212442#Comment_119212442

Same here. Remember check in before boarding a BMI ERJ145 being asked if I wanted an Aisle seat or a window seat. I was unsure, so they gave me BOTH. One side is a row of single seats, which is actually perfect for the solo traveller. If only more airlines had this seating option....

Loganair still using them, I understand.

jonnybigwallet

https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/embraer-c-390m-for-royal-netherlands-air-force

For anyone who missed this.

Leonidas BL

Id love to see a data sheet comparing its specs to the A400M and C130.

jonnybigwallet

Can find a lot of data online about payload and a lot else besides. Looks impressive and the Dutch are not fools. KLM have now had to retire their Fokker 70 and 100 planes and they have replaced them with similar sized Embraer aircraft, so it's obvious that there is a fair bit of know how about what Embraer can deliver among the aviation community over there.

source

Some details from Wikipedia on the C390/C130J/A400M. They were in different formats depending on who created the article and I couldn't be bothered making them all the same.

Capacity:

C390: 80 troops / 74 stretchers and 8 attendants / 66 paratroopers / 7 463L master pallets / 6 463L master pallets and 36 troops

C130J: 92 passengers / 64 airborne troops / 6 pallets / 74 litter patients with 5 medical personnel / 2–3 Humvees, or 1 LAV III (with turret removed) or an M113 armored personnel carrier

A400M: 116 fully equipped troops / paratroopers up to 66 stretchers accompanied by 25 medical personnel

Cargo Compartment:

C390: Hold length × height × width: 18.5×3.0×3.4 m (60.6×9.8×11.3 ft)

C130J: Cargo bay length: 41 ft (12.50 m)

Cargo bay width: 10 ft (3.05 m)

Cargo bay height: 9 ft (2.74 m)

A400M: width 4.00 m (13.12 ft) x height 3.85 m (12.6 ft) x length 17.71 m (58.1 ft) (without ramp 5.40 m (17.7 ft))

Performance:

C390:

Maximum speed: 988 km/h (614 mph, 533 kn)

Cruise speed: 870 km/h (540 mph, 470 kn) Mach 0.8

Stall speed: 193 km/h (120 mph, 104 kn) IAS

Range: 5,820 km (3,610 mi, 3,140 nmi) with 14,000 kg (30,865 lb) payload

Range alt: 2,820 km (1,520 nmi) with 23,000 kg (51,000 lb) payload

Range alt2: 2,110 km (1,140 nmi) with 26,000 kg (57,320 lb) payload

Ferry range: 8,500 km (5,300 mi, 4,600 nmi) max. with aux. fuel tanks; normal ferry 3,310 nmi, 6,130 km

Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

C130J:

Maximum speed: 362 kn (417 mph, 670 km/h)

Cruise speed: 348 kn (400 mph, 644 km/h)

Range: 1,800 nmi (2,100 mi, 3,300 km) at max normal payload (34,000 lb (15,422 kg))

Service ceiling: 28,000 ft (8,500 m) with 42,000 lb (19,051 kg) payload

Absolute ceiling: 40,386 ft (12,310 m)

A400M:

Maximum speed: Mach 0.72

Cruise speed: 781 km/h (485 mph, 422 kn) at 9,450 m (31,000 ft)

Initial cruise altitude: 9,000 m (29,000 ft) at MTOW

Range: 3,300 km (2,100 mi, 1,800 nmi) at max payload

Range with 30-tonne payload: 4,500 km (2,450 nmi)

Range with 20-tonne payload: 6,400 km (3,450 nmi)

Ferry range: 8,700 km (5,400 mi, 4,700 nmi)

Service ceiling: 12,200 m (40,000 ft)

Wing loading: 637 kg/m2 (130.4 lb/sq ft)

Tactical takeoff distance: 980 m (3,215 ft)

Tactical landing distance: 770 m (2,530 ft)

Turning radius (ground): 28.6 m

newcavanman

We handled both a C390 and a Kawasaki C 2 at RIAT in 2018. Most of my colleagues, who are current or ex military engineers /.ground handlers, thought the C 2 was a better far more substantial aircraft than the 390. We only had the aircraft there for a few days, but the general perception was that the 390 was a bit of a lightweight.

Personally I think we should look to acquire a couple of the RAF C-130Js when they become available. They will have been well used but very well maintained. Spares and support are available worldwide, and will probably be cheap as chips, meaning we may be able to acquire 2/3, whereas if we go new, we will likely only buy one . Given our likely usage, hours wise, they seem to me to the perfect solution for our transport requirements

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214743#Comment_119214743

So you dont even have a little Optimism that the state could do something

Funny enoght i believe we were offered the leased 295 as a transport aircraft back in 1994.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218945#Comment_119218945

It was a 235, not a 295. Sn. 250. White with a red stripe.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219352#Comment_119219352

She was a Beut!

Sgt. Bilko 09

Is it true that the general service battalions are getting the stryker from the US? the reason I ask is because there is a document online stating they are supposed to be getting the stryker as the IFVs have never been replaced and the only transport aircraft that can bring it to the lab or Syria with the UN is a Hercules.

Sgt. Bilko 09

Document location

https://assets.gov.ie/194213/cffa843e-c361-4349-998e-a06876ec6ba5.pdf

source

The only mention I can see of the stryker in that document is:

"The army should attempt to procure Stryker MGS kits and apply them to several MOWAGs to fill the capability gap lost with the retirement of the AML90."

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119235722#Comment_119235722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119235229#Comment_119235229

We have a ship coming from NZ we could the Kiwis to throw in a dozen or two Lavs as part of the deal and upgrade them for fire support.

Is there much in common between the Lavs and the Mowags or are all the engines etc different?

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119235676#Comment_119235676

What is that document? It lacks a title or author.

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236044#Comment_119236044

Yeah, I’m finding difficulty in retrieving the author of it, it’s from the assets.gov.ie web domain so I thought it was an official document. I maybe naive in thinking that I always thought published documents from there where official.

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119235768#Comment_119235768

Dohville spotted something I didn’t that the document had no author which is strange as it is on the government domain. The report/document suggests the only difference is Stryker has turret 104mm both Vehicles are the same chassis wise.

Kiwis are offloading a lot maybe could be requested.

But the report (and whoever wrote it) fails to mention anything regarding RFTs or RFIs in relation to such equipment.

Dohvolle

Could it be that this document is one of the many submissions recieved from the public for the CoDF?

If so, cast your eyes on this beauty.

https://assets.gov.ie/194145/97519786-fe7d-48af-86b9-e1f3c253872f.pdf

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237835#Comment_119237835

I was thinking thats what it might be, as for the As Gaelige doc, there’s only one group that’s from, are they FOI docs made public or something? Very strange they are blacked out or made anonymously

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239547#Comment_119239547

One of the(More nutty) submissions to the CoDF.

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119240331#Comment_119240331

Agreed bit of a strange one

roadmaster

In the Air Corps proposal for SAR they included retaining one of the current Casas for Top Cover. Could we see it instead now being kept for transport as an interm measure?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258917#Comment_119258917

Who knows at this stage, nothing until the White smoke comes from Cabinet.