Transport Aircraft

roadmaster

The poor PC12 fleet will be run to the ground shortly the way they used them

Markcheese

Not if they're sitting on the tarmac in Africa 😎

What's the range of the new casa's ?

scotchy

In the air now.

Phew😓

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0818/1316468-air-corps-congo/

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Strumms

Going back to collect gear…..What equipment needed to be repatriated I wonder.

From my rough maths…

the aircraft can carry approximately 2,700 lbs of fuel. A 10 leg return trip if what I’m interpreting is correct ?

so roughly 27,000 lbs of fuel say… you are paying for fuel plus it’s uplift each time.

would it not be cheaper and safer to buy the gear again ?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489110#Comment_119489110

I would imagine weapons and Amo falling to the wrong hands is the main issue if they left them behind

Dohvolle

We left them behind, in the care of others when they were repatriated during Covid. There was uproar.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489110#Comment_119489110

As mentioned its their weapons, ammo, comms gear and such, remember last time we had this situation we left the equipment with a "friendly" nation to hold onto/whatever with them, guess this time that was deemed the wrong approach but someone forgot to ensure clearances for the return leg with weapons onboard.

In terms of usage, between the flights for Covid and everything else we are certainly putting hours on the fleet, which again makes you wonder why the fifth one was turned down? And of course highlights the gap of anything with "strategic" reach.

Larbre34

Sending a single-engined, unstrengthened, light transport into a conflict zone of deteriorating and uncertain security, borders on an act of criminal negligence, in my view.

A) the lack of a tactical airlifter is again highlighted and B) given that, the Government should have paid for a friendly Government to evacuate our men and equipment safely.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489697#Comment_119489697

Ah sparky do you not remember they had no where to park the 5th PC12!!

Grassy Knoll

while the PC 12 had some clear limitations in terms of this particular mission, I think it clearly proves a) the need for an aircraft with more suitable legs, b) the capabilities of the Aer Corps to plan and execute such a task and c) the value already being derived from the PC12 craft.

The laying up of the plane is more a function of diplomatic/ bureaucratic wrangling, but should not take from what is a pointer of the more punchy roles Aer Corps should be undertaking … I would be more than surprised if more suitable aircraft is not acquired in due course.

jonnybigwallet

So we had to leave this beautiful piece of kit in the capable hands of the Ugandan Air Force!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119493447#Comment_119493447

Her aircrew and the extras they took with them were with the plane, I doubt they just left random people mess with it.

Larbre34

"In due course"

This 'due course' has been identified for decades, ever since the Government began committing the DF to ever more dangerous peace enforcement and training missions in conflict zones, where being dropped off and picked up by an Aer Lingus 757 every six months, simply does not cover the logistical and military needs of such missions, specifically unforeseen emergency departures from unsecured locations and / or with live fire in the area.

The utter failure by the civil and military authorities to address this glaring need, amounts to negligence in my opinion.

There should be a tactical military transport on-stand in Baldonnell, today, and every day there is not one, is one more indictment.

Dohvolle

12 monts almost to the day since the Kabul debacle.

roadmaster

At this stage they may strip and hold on to the 235s when the 295s arrive for transport duties untill a suitable aircraft can be bought

Larbre34

That wouldn't really solve the problem, even on an interim basis.

Both examples are very old, not strengthened and protected for tactical operations and have only 75% the range of a modern twin lifter like the C-27J or 60% the range of the C295 successor.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497703#Comment_119497703

Would there be space to park them though? I mean that's seems to be a critical issue.

Without the sarcasm though, given the issues with the service rates that they have had over the last few years in the MPA role, how much money would need to go into them now to get them up to a rate that would support any on call airlift? Given the lead time on any new transports or even just getting them second hand how long might they hang around in such a case and would there be a risk that certain parties would use them as an excuse not to buy something proper for the job?

Larbre34

Too much money, for too little utility.

In fact, if I were the Air Corps seniors, I wouldn't give the DoD monkeys the satisfaction of suggesting it as a stop gap, they'd surely seize on it and consider it solved.

Dohvolle

Here's a simple template for any discussion of any aircraft in the role, be it new or 2nd hand. Strategic or Tactical, Biz-jet or rear ramp, Sofa bed seating or canvas bench.

Can it cross the Atlantic in one hop? Having this ability, from our location in Europe opens up a whole range of options for reaching our numerous overseas postings elsewhere in the world.

The PC12NG struggles to reach the far reaches of Europe. The Lear 45 Isn't much better. The G4 could do it easily. Dassault Falcon 8x can do it and return without refuelling.

There have been far too many incidents in recent years where our lack of ability to get Irish citizens out of dangerous situations, be they civilian or military, was exposed for all to see.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497339#Comment_119497339

Put it this way, Coveney is likely to be moving on at year end, if for no other reason than ‘legacy’ I’d be surprised if there wasn’t an announcement. The business case so to speak is irrefutable at this point. Also we know discussions have been ongoing behind the scenes with aircraft agents so there is tyre kicking of some form going on in the second hand market. Finally an ac CoS is likely to count for something, particularly in the year 100 etc ?? … I could be very wrong but let’s see what the autumn brings …

roadmaster

Are the pair of former Jordian 295s still sitting in seville?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119508999#Comment_119508999

I agree with all of that. The Navy secured more new hulls under Vice Admiral Mellett than they had in the previous 40 odd years. Lets see if Sean Clancy is just as influential.

Also, the vital operations of the Air Corps have been highlighted in the last 30 months like never before.

Budget 2023 is presented in about 4 weeks time, I guess we'll just have to be optimistic.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511740#Comment_119511740

Not sure you can compare the situations, I mean the P60 class procurement started well before he was CoS from memory and P64 had mixed reasons for procurement. While as you say the AC limitations have been exposed, is it enough to nudge the politicians? Given some of the mixed comments in some of the reporting so far I’m going to wait and not get any hopes up.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511740#Comment_119511740

I can say I know the man, and everyone in the NS will agree that as soon as he left NSHQ for DFHQ, his influence on Naval affairs ended. It had to, otherwise the honkeys would not have worked with him. The P60 contract was signed under his predecessor as FOCNS in 2008. 2+1 ship. P64 was ordered outside that contract, in 2016, at which time Mark Mellett was chief of staff.

Make no mistake, once you sit at the top desk, your past military history is forgotten. No more so than Conor O'Boyle got the gunners new guns, or Sean McCann got the cav new armour during their terms in the post.

If Sean Clancy can get anything from CoDF over the line before he retires, I'll be happy. However the stumbling block, as usual, wears a different colour uniform. Have a look at a few recent FOI involving procurement in the DF and it becomes clear where the problem is.

Grassy Knoll

Money has been found for additional or unprogrammed purchases of equipment as the need has arisen in the last few years, so conceivably this could be met in 2022.

Larbre34

I imagine the first thing Sean Clancy wants out of the Commission report, is the position of Chief of Defence.

Something that a) I wouldn't hold against him in the slightest and b) the Government should not kick down the road as has been indicated.

Dohvolle

CHOD would be the best thing for the smaller branches of the DF. Gives all arms an equal voice to the minister.

Which is why the Army will probably oppose it at every opportunity.

Larbre34

They'd be crazy to. By the time CHOD is enacted under legislation, Clancy will likely be finished his term and Adrian Ó Murchú and Rossa Mulcahy will be fighting it out for the gig.

roadmaster

Interesting day out for the air corps piliots

https://www.afgsc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3139404/irish-air-corps-visits-20th-air-force/

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119525884#Comment_119525884

Interesting bit of news, though not what you’d expect to see.