Transport Aircraft

EchoIndia

I would just add that buying a single example of any type, new or otherwise, doesn't eliminate the risk of a technical problem disrupting an important trip. I'd have preferred to see two aircraft being procured but that's probably too much of a pill for our political masters to swallow.

tippilot

It's also worth bearing in mind, this is a long delayed Gulfstream replacement despite the media blitz to a public used to being hit by the lazy Irish media with phrases like THE government jet and THE Air Corps Casa.

The Learjet itself will need replacing with an economical short hauler for EU work, as was it's original intended purpose. It was a secondary aircraft, only inheriting the primary role when the GIV was made an austerity era sacrificial lamb. Before that a King Air was doing the job.

Pilatus just happen to have a readymade replacement in the PC-24.

Dohvolle

We thought the PC12 was the lear replacement until they said no single engines for VIP transport.

PC24 would be an ideal replacement though (once we get the G4 replacement delivered). By all accounts it is in every sense just a PC12 with twin turbofans.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384266#Comment_121384266

Well if you wanted to be hopelessly optimistic, you could imagine the plan contains so much spending that the new MATS jet will be swamped out of the news cycle....

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121386242#Comment_121386242

I think you mean hopelessly high…🤣

source

If they were to chose the Falcon 8x and asked for a standard airliner style cabin layout, rather than a bizjet layout, does anyone know what the capacity would be?

Edit: I know it's not a very wide aircraft so probably would be a 1x1 layout.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383744#Comment_121383744

Why is the purchase of a secondhand aircraft not allowed?

roadmaster

For training and maintenance resources when it comes to replacing the helicopter fleet would the air corps be better of with one fleet say like the H145M but buy in sufficient numbers to ensure availability or does having a mixed fleet not make that much of a difference in the bigger picture?

Dohvolle

The plan in 2000 was to move away from a mixed fleet if possible, so we moved from a mixed fleet of 3 types by one manufacturer (with a fourth type planned) to a fleet of 2 types (the third type falling by the wayside for no obvious reason) from 2 manufacturers.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121386486#Comment_121386486

They won't do you a 'standard' airliner layout, thats not what business jets are for.

The upper limit of capacity is 16 passengers, 2 flight crew and 1 steward.

Thats not just dictated by the desire for luxury, its things like baggage capacity x pax, fuel efficiency, aircraft payload balancing etc.

The highest capacity of 16 means a configuration of typical bizjet seats and belted couches, with no bedrooms and one small toilet. This is a Falcon 8X interior below.

If someone wants a 2x1 airliner arrangement, they should probably buy an airliner.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121386793#Comment_121386793

Mainly security and manufacturer guarantee and after sales relationship.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387287#Comment_121387287

If you look back at the news reports at the time the A105 was heavily tipped as a replacement

Dohvolle

The A109/EC135 for the LUH and the EC155/AW139 for the UH category (With the UH1Y as an outsider, because at the time they were rebuilds, not new aircraft).

roadmaster

When ever the Helicopter replacement contract comes around if Bell Textron went for it and one it I wonder could we get a deal like the Czech Air Force did

Dohvolle

We're **** at contracts. We demand aircraft with very specific requirements unique to our needs instead of grabbing something off the shelf or even tieing in with someone elses order for a better price. There's a good reason we never exercised the option on the 7th and 8th AW139. Its initial issues with failing exhausts should have seen them returned to AW and getting our money back.

The absence of specification for the new MATS aircraft is inspiring.

Here's our budget.

Here's the minimum passengers we'll carry with luggage.

Here's the minimum range we expect.

What have you got. New.

See you next month.

No nonsense, no colour schemes or monogrammed upholstery. Almost expect it to be delivered in standard colour scheme and we'll repaint it ourselves later, like the first PC12.

Larbre34

We are certainly **** at contracts. Right through the public sector.

The establishment of the Office of Government Procurement, during the austerity era, was supposed to revolutionise procurement effectiveness at all levels. It has failed.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391279#Comment_121391279

Insert shocked face here…

Larbre34

__

roadmaster

The replacement of the Irish Air Corps’ helicopter fleet will take place in 2028

Taken from the journal so for that to happen would a order need to be placed in 2025?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394755#Comment_121394755

With our normal procurement timeline, it should have been started years ago, even if it starts now I don't see even IOC in 2028.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395159#Comment_121395159

You would assume some thought has been given to this already… 2028 is no length away in terms of these exercises. I presume it will be an AW of some variety again ? What is the view in B/don on their relative reliability, serviceability etc ? Also, do we buy more than the half dozen?

Larbre34

AW149 will probably be in the mix.

But if the plan to dedicate some helicopters to special forces use and heavier military taskings follows through, then by 2028 the Airbus H175M super-medium, will be maturing nicely.

EchoIndia

Could I suggest that future helicopter issues be split off into a separate thread?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395373#Comment_121395373

Bold assumption that thought has gone into capital purchases, I mean given our track record…

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396301#Comment_121396301

That is one ugly looking helicopter. I reckon they dont move from AW & graduate to the AW169.

Heraldoffreeent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402682#Comment_121402682

AW169 is smaller than the 139. AW189 is in the super medium category, but thats a civi spec/Coastguard heli I think, not sure if theres a Mil equivelent.

Grassy Knoll

If I were a betting man I’d say we would go for a life-for-like change to the AW 139m version. Engine commonality with the Pilatius PW engines must be an influential factor, particularly given the technical end staff shortages? The AW 149 is I see touted as an alternative to the Blackhawk and is a more robust machine. However, given we go ‘pimped up civilian spec’ and sometimes nothing wrong with that, the 139 is I’d say IMHO where we go.

tippilot

The recommendation was Super Medium and that's what we're looking at so it's bye-bye to the AW139 in any version.

Realistically, we're looking at either AW149 or H175M if we get the military spec version. (Civilian version of AW149 is the AW189).

spark23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403399#Comment_121403399

All this "Super Medium" talk isn't particularily helpful when whats needed is an actual medium lift aircraft like EC225 type with the capability to move a platoon via two airframes. Alot of marketing terms being used here at one stage the AW139/149 family were classed as intermediate type aircraft. All the types mentioned so far are just a rehash of the AW139 civie helicopter painted green.

Dohvolle

Is any other military currently using the H175M?